Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi all,

I'm heading down to the Kosciuszko NP next week, to spend a few days camping and snowboarding.
Just wondering, would you have to be a complete noob to loose traction in a fourby in the snow?

I know that rta recommends all vehicles (incl 4wds) carry chains, but if you drove sensibly, would you ever need them?

Cheers, Brad.

What tyres have you got?

I would be pretty comfortable with some good mud tyres and no chains. But your highway terrains or all-terrains are probably not going to be that great.

I've got some pretty new all terrain Nankangs....

On a groomed road yes, you may need chains. Ice is ice, 4WD or not.

On an ungroomed road like Mt Skene here in Vic, Chains are no help.

Steve.

Okay.
I'm thinking I'll hire them just in case. The $50 may be well worth it at some point.

On the worst day of the season this year I drove up without putting it in 4wd (forgot to lock the hubs then couldn't be bothered once we were in the snow). Usually with any hint of snow or ice the traffic slows to a crawl anyway so there's very little chance of losing traction and unless you drive up very early (before the traffic) there's very little ice left, just slush and water. The only accidents are usually due to idiots who can't drive, people driving way to fast (they think it's the Jindianapolis 500) and trying to overtake everyone, or people driving very early or late at night when the road can ice up. Don't bother with the chains just drive to the conditions and you'll be fine.

cheers nelso

Chains really are only of value if the surface is hard packed or icy. In reasonably fresh tracks they dont help unless you are on road tyres.

But if you are driving in managed Alpine Areas you have to carry chains by law and fit them if directed to

I don't know why the aussie snow is different, but here if you get more than an inch of fresh stuff falling, it's chains or you're going nowhere.

Where there's snow, it's often packed to ice. Rubber can't grip that stuff no matter what shape it's in.

Two weeks ago just inland from me got a metre of snow. If the road crews weren't so efficient I could have had a longer holiday.

KiwiBacon wrote:I don't know why the aussie snow is different, but here if you get more than an inch of fresh stuff falling, it's chains or you're going nowhere.

Where there's snow, it's often packed to ice. Rubber can't grip that stuff no matter what shape it's in.

Two weeks ago just inland from me got a metre of snow. If the road crews weren't so efficient I could have had a longer holiday.

do you let your tyres down? Because here chains and snow = suck

grimbo wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote:I don't know why the aussie snow is different, but here if you get more than an inch of fresh stuff falling, it's chains or you're going nowhere.

Where there's snow, it's often packed to ice. Rubber can't grip that stuff no matter what shape it's in.

Two weeks ago just inland from me got a metre of snow. If the road crews weren't so efficient I could have had a longer holiday.

do you let your tyres down? Because here chains and snow = suck

I would only let tyres down if it's deep and soft (where it starts to behave like sand).
Normally it's a mix of hard packed and some fresh on top. I keep my tyres hard and keep chains at the ready.
I haven't had to us my snow chains this winter, but there are times I could have.

I'd be dropping tyre pressure any time on snow. I suppose the difference maybe the hard packed underneath which would respond to the chains better than the softer stuff we seem to be driving on

grimbo wrote:But if you are driving in managed Alpine Areas you have to carry chains by law and fit them if directed to

not in NSW, 4wds are exempt

grimbo wrote:I'd be dropping tyre pressure any time on snow. I suppose the difference maybe the hard packed underneath which would respond to the chains better than the softer stuff we seem to be driving on

Softer tyres are better on snow, harder tyres are better on ice. Depends which one you're expecting more of I guess.

i was reading a 4x4 mag that said due to rally car experience the best traction for snow is snow meaning that chains or aggresive tyres are not the best but a tyre that bogs up on snow will have better traction on snow.
I have never driven on snow but i would take snow chains.

matto wrote:i was reading a 4x4 mag that said due to rally car experience the best traction for snow is snow meaning that chains or aggresive tyres are not the best but a tyre that bogs up on snow will have better traction on snow.
I have never driven on snow but i would take snow chains.

Absolutely - only snow has traction on snow. All terrains etc work very well if the depth isn't excessive.

However, in deep snow, you still need some lug to grab the snow in front of the tyre and push it down.
Snow conditions have an enormous effect though.

Given the option of all terrains or swampers in snow with some depth, I'd always take the swampers.

on light snow with a packed base though - the all terrains would be fine.

MTR's seem to work well too - but they actually seem to work quite well everywhere that I have seen.

Steve.

Flylux, if you are just going to the major centres you will be ok without chains in KNP at the moment. There has not been much snow of late and the roads are pretty clear plus most stuff offroad has been closed for the winter anyway.

The higher roads are pretty well groomed and are generally passable by 2wd cars anyway.

There is planty of snow (I flew over it yesterday) on the higher peaks so you will be able to have heaps of fun but around Selwin, Kiandra and basically the northern end it is just light cover so mud on dirt roads would be more of an issue than snow at the moment.

Enjoy, best time to go is at the end of the season

Chains are good also in mud

Gwagensteve wrote:

matto wrote:i was reading a 4x4 mag that said due to rally car experience the best traction for snow is snow meaning that chains or aggresive tyres are not the best but a tyre that bogs up on snow will have better traction on snow.
I have never driven on snow but i would take snow chains.

Absolutely - only snow has traction on snow. All terrains etc work very well if the depth isn't excessive.

However, in deep snow, you still need some lug to grab the snow in front of the tyre and push it down.
Snow conditions have an enormous effect though.

Given the option of all terrains or swampers in snow with some depth, I'd always take the swampers.

on light snow with a packed base though - the all terrains would be fine.

MTR's seem to work well too - but they actually seem to work quite well everywhere that I have seen.

Steve.

Would something like a claw or pede run backwards be the go?

GRPABT1 wrote: Would something like a claw or pede run backwards be the go?

They make snow chains for a reason.

You want the biggest, balloon type tyres you can fit and you want snow chains wrapped around them.
If you're going to hit ice, then you want metal claws all over your chains too.

It's interesting reading about whose tyres do what on which snow.
Seems like a very temperamental driving surface.

flylux wrote:It's interesting reading about whose tyres do what on which snow.
Seems like a very temperamental driving surface.

I think it really hates being described as a driving surface so watch out.

flylux wrote:It's interesting reading about whose tyres do what on which snow.
Seems like a very temperamental driving surface.

Soo many different types of snow too.
Ranging from dry, fluffy and squeaky stuff, to slush that behaves like mud and even crusty stuff that behaves like ice.

j-top paj wrote:
not in NSW, 4wds are exempt

x2

chimpboy wrote:

flylux wrote:It's interesting reading about whose tyres do what on which snow.
Seems like a very temperamental driving surface.

I think it really hates being described as a driving surface so watch out.

Yeah, i think it hates being piled into the back of a ute and taken home to Newcastle too. I did this up at the Barrington tops once and got bogged trying to get out of the camping area! We had to tunnel through the snow in the back of the ute to get the hand winch out

Have driven on deep snow with SImex Pedes and Cooper ST and the they both did well. The simex seemed to work that bit better though.

GRPABT1 wrote:[

Would something like a claw or pede run backwards be the go?

I ran Claws backwards on the front of my Gwagen and they were quite good in the snow.

Steve.

For an interesting test of chains versus snow tyres etc on hard packed snow have a look at

http://www.4x4abc.com/ML320/ml_chainss.html

I'm quite happy driving up Falls Creek, Mt buller & baw baw roads in the patrol (35" simexs) without chains, but wouldn't head up Hotham without them, there are some pretty steep hills & even 4wd won't help ya from sliding of the massive drop if the ice got real bad