Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I need to do something about my Zuk and the various "issues" it has ..

First off I have always wanted to run a "link" suspension system and to keep it simple I reckon that I would simply go a 3 link setup using range rover radius arms and a panhard, it should be able to give me enough flex(for what I want anyways) But then I had the stoopid idea of using a quarter elliptic spring pack, due to its low static ride height and ability to allow for alot of droop/dropout.
The reasons for the 3 link with rangie arms is that the hard stuff has been done and there "should" not be to much work involved in it (even with my shade tree mechanic, bootie fab skills) as I could get all the brackets mocked up using card board, get the barckets made up (properly) and then weld it all up in a day or so (weekend job, no rushing).

Would I need to to get "special" quarter eleptic leaves made up ?? or could I use say half a set of hilux or MQ rear leaves.. (I would not be hingeing the pack it would be bolted to the chassis)
Oh yeah i would be doing this (in theory) with MQ diffs and my existing 35 claws ..

i think overkill had ifs hilux rears?
in the buggy

will it be fixed end at the chassis? or will it be able to pivot there?

if it is fixed at the diff end ie. cant move at it will put alot of twisting into the spring. double what they normally would see with the same amount of flex

just put some sort of shackle thing on the diff end and keep the chassis end solid mounted

just stick to spoa with a wrap bar

quick and easy

although a single rover radius arm would make a good wrap bar

N*A*M wrote:just stick to spoa with a wrap bar

quick and easy

although a single rover radius arm would make a good wrap bar

But I want to be difficult , as well as different, also I like the way that the axles are controlled better with the radius arm\link suspension setup
Some other reasons are that it should virtually eliminate front end axle wrap, from what I can tell it contributes greatly to wheelhop.
I also get sick of replacing bushes in the springs as they get chewed out pretty quick with SPOA, 35's and longer shackles...

Oh yeah did I mention I would like to try something different (had SPOA and SPUA .. now time for some cast iron)

redzook wrote:i think overkill had ifs hilux rears?
in the buggy

will it be fixed end at the chassis? or will it be able to pivot there?

if it is fixed at the diff end ie. cant move at it will put alot of twisting into the spring. double what they normally would see with the same amount of flex

just put some sort of shackle thing on the diff end and keep the chassis end solid mounted

Will try normal leaves with a shackle @ the axle first, if it works out will get a main leaf rolled to accept a bollocks joint.

if you're going that route, use rangie diffs???

the brackets are all there, you get disc brakes all round, more width, correct offsets...

may work, may not work. but think about that also.

N*A*M wrote:if you're going that route, use rangie diffs???

the brackets are all there, you get disc brakes all round, more width, correct offsets...

may work, may not work. but think about that also.

The main reason I want the nissan diffs is the ratios are already there (4.6's) plus I have rims for them.
If I come across a set of rangie diffs for a good price I would not rule them out.

N*A*M wrote:if you're going that route, use rangie diffs???

the brackets are all there

but will the brackets line up with the chassis good?

redzook wrote:

N*A*M wrote:if you're going that route, use rangie diffs???

the brackets are all there

but will the brackets line up with the chassis good?

I would most likely run the arms at a slight angle to allow a little more flex without stressing mounts or bushings to much.

i think the mounts are wider than zook chassis. but sam overton just bent his arms inwards on the lockless buggy and got more flex/less bind in doing so.

r&p ratio is one disadvantage. also rims are 16" :( and high steer is not available so you have to run coils or spua up front.

but on the plus side, you could run toyota r&p and cvs in the long run. that'd handle 38s easily.

but i do have a set with rims and tyres (and maybe some radius arms too) at a very good price

guy come over and measure it up. couldn't hurt i guess. i've been half eyeing it off myself.

N*A*M wrote:i think the mounts are wider than zook chassis. but sam overton just bent his arms inwards on the lockless buggy and got more flex/less bind in doing so.

r&p ratio is one disadvantage. also rims are 16" :( and high steer is not available so you have to run coils or spua up front.

but on the plus side, you could run toyota r&p and cvs in the long run. that'd handle 38s easily.

but i do have a set with rims and tyres (and maybe some radius arms too) at a very good price

guy come over and measure it up. couldn't hurt i guess. i've been half eyeing it off myself.

Wadya doing on saturday I have a hall pass for the day as my wife is studying.. may come over with a measuring tape and digi cam if thats Ok with you ..

16 inch rims dont bother me much (hello to some q78s or pedes)

I actually looked into doing the rangie stuff a while ago. I might have measurements etc at home. From memory it looked to be a pretty good swap, not a lot of negatives.

guy i've gotta attend a funeral in the morning on saturday
then i'm going to zoo twilights in the evening

between that i have a short window of time at home probably around 1-4pm

but you can just help yourself to the rangie cos it's just in the driveway
no one will mind much

i'm in caroline springs by the way

N*A*M wrote:guy i've gotta attend a funeral in the morning on saturday
then i'm going to zoo twilights in the evening

between that i have a short window of time at home probably around 1-4pm

but you can just help yourself to the rangie cos it's just in the driveway
no one will mind much

i'm in caroline springs by the way

To bad about the funeral .. (Hopefully for you it was no-one close) but the twilight at the Zoo is great, I went a few weeks ago.

Thanks for the offer .. will PM you for details like address etc

Cheers
Guy

was somebody in the "extended scouting family". a grandmother of my co-leader.

how much do you suppose you could sell you w/t diffs for?

have done what u want to do 3 link spoa leaves if i can find a scanner i will post up picks also have done rangie conversion fairly easy &good flexpm me or ph 0415156693
mick

v8zuki wrote:have done what u want to do 3 link spoa leaves if i can find a scanner i will post up picks also have done rangie conversion fairly easy &good flexpm me or ph 0415156693
mick

I think a good number of people would be quite interested in this sort of tech, both the 3 link & rangie stuff. Don't talk in secret share it with everyone

N*A*M wrote:was somebody in the "extended scouting family". a grandmother of my co-leader.

how much do you suppose you could sell you w/t diffs for?

No idea, rear is centre is basicaly scrap metal, housing is OK front is good $350 for all of it .. inc home made highsteer and welded rear centre (gears are really noisy though) could nto seel diffs until I had others to "keep it rolling" in the garage

v8zuki wrote:have done what u want to do 3 link spoa leaves if i can find a scanner i will post up picks also have done rangie conversion fairly easy &good flexpm me or ph 0415156693
mick

Sounds great .. will give you a call ..

love_mud wrote:

redzook wrote:i think overkill had ifs hilux rears?
in the buggy

will it be fixed end at the chassis? or will it be able to pivot there?

if it is fixed at the diff end ie. cant move at it will put alot of twisting into the spring. double what they normally would see with the same amount of flex

just put some sort of shackle thing on the diff end and keep the chassis end solid mounted

Will try normal leaves with a shackle @ the axle first, if it works out will get a main leaf rolled to accept a bollocks joint.

If you use Sierra leaves you will have to use enough leaves from 2 packs to make the spring stiff enough to work.
I used Ifs hilux rears and added another load leave and that seemed to be a good rate. My old Zook used Pajero springs and they were way to soft and hence the floppyness. A shackle will not give enough flex at the diff end of the spring and will probably bend. We made up a 3 way shackle but an easier way is to use a Heim joint in a half shackle setup.Does that make sence.

Another good setup it to use the three link and then use a standard leaf with a shackle at each end.
SAM

OVERKILL ENGINEERING wrote:

love_mud wrote:

redzook wrote:i think overkill had ifs hilux rears?
in the buggy

will it be fixed end at the chassis? or will it be able to pivot there?

if it is fixed at the diff end ie. cant move at it will put alot of twisting into the spring. double what they normally would see with the same amount of flex

just put some sort of shackle thing on the diff end and keep the chassis end solid mounted

Will try normal leaves with a shackle @ the axle first, if it works out will get a main leaf rolled to accept a bollocks joint.

If you use Sierra leaves you will have to use enough leaves from 2 packs to make the spring stiff enough to work.
I used Ifs hilux rears and added another load leave and that seemed to be a good rate. My old Zook used Pajero springs and they were way to soft and hence the floppyness. A shackle will not give enough flex at the diff end of the spring and will probably bend. We made up a 3 way shackle but an easier way is to use a Heim joint in a half shackle setup.Does that make sence.

Another good setup it to use the three link and then use a standard leaf with a shackle at each end.
SAM

Thanks for that Sam, I was looking at using a (half a set actually) of MQ rears as they are quite long and easy enough to get extra leaves for ( I am not after HUGE flex the cast arms I am looking at using will bind at about 10 to 12 inches of travel I reckon, thats if I have enough weight for that .. )
Do you think that if I used a "bollocks" joint at the diff end that it would provide enough defelection ?? Initially I guess I would use an hourglass bushing or an old drilled out spring bush (drill holes in it to make it softer and flexier)

( I want to ditch the full length leaves to improve aproach/departure angles)

Thanks for ther tips ...

As far as joints go I would use Nissan controll arm bushes.They have more flex than a bollocks joint and are only $35 Genuine. they are rubber as well so rego won't be a hassle.We used the nissan bushes in the coil kit for the Zook and they have more flex than the kit has and are a nice smoothe ride.
SAM

Thanks again ... more good tech (heaps cheaper as well, can basically do 3 nissan bushes per bollocks joint, with fewer vibrations etc)
I assume thats the bushes in the rear links of a patrol ...

OVERKILL ENGINEERING wrote:

We made up a 3 way shackle but an easier way is to use a Heim joint in a half shackle setup.Does that make sence.

SAM

Tim Hardy runs a similar setup

http://www.rubiconexpress.com/images/RE5600.jpg

This is the commercial rubicon express kit .. it is sort of similar to what i am thinking of ..