Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I broke my rear axle the other day. I pulled it apart on the weekend to find the diff mashed as well. So I'm going to get some shafts and a diff from the wreckers.

My question is will the 9.5" rear diff and bigger shafts of either a 3.5 v6 or the 2.8tdi go into my 3.0 v6 axle beam. Im 99% sure they will but I just want to be sure. In the event they wont fit I can just buy the whole beam out of one of the said pajs and just bolt in on right?

Cheers,
Jack

short answer.. No. the axles from the 3.5 and 2.8 are a bigger diameter, and the diff head is also bigger.

you should be able to bolt the whole axle assembly in (i think) but you will need to check the ratio of your wagon and the doner diff.

Sam

Yeah neither of the bigger axles & diff head have the same ratios as the smaller one.

NJV6 wrote:Yeah neither of the bigger axles & diff head have the same ratios as the smaller one.

the 4.625 should be close enough to 4.636 shouldnt it?

Gen 2

2.6 = 4.875
2.5TD & 2.5TDI = 4.875, 5.29
3.0 V6 = 4.625, 4.875
2.8D = 4.875
2.8TDI = 4.90
3.5 DOHC V6 = 4.636
t/case = 1.925:1 low range for 2.6, 2.5TD, 2.5TDI & 3.0 V6, 1.90:1 for 2.8TDI & 3.5 DOHC V6

I know the axles are bigger but they are still way smaller then the inside of the axle housing. its just the bearings in the diff and the bearings in the bit that bolts to the end of the axle that hold the shaft in place. and the bigger diff is only 6.5mm bigger radius and theres alot more then 6.5mm of clearance between the 9" diff and housing. So I would think the bigger shafts and diff should fit.

Jack

Think I just got a whole beam out of a 3.0 v6 NH with a mitsi difflock for $650 so im wrapped. Are the mitsi diff locks long lasting, ie would you still expect it to be working and keep on working for a long time to come?

Cheers,
Jack

No, the diff will not bolt up to the housing. There are 10 vs 12 bolts and the head is bigger.

If you have broken an axle without a locker chances are you'll break an axle with a locker. The axles are substantially larger in the bigger diff and moves the weak point to the locking mechanism.

Yea Sam 625 to 636 shouldn't be too bad but elsewhere on outers people have been complaining about .01 of a ratio difference being noticeable (4.1 vs 4.11 in a Rangie). Who knows!

welcome to my world...

dean

Thanx for the info guys. The new axles are 3mm bigger in diameter is this I big difference in the world of axles. I have no idea. At anyrate the only reason I broke mine was because I was being a dumb shit.

1 more question what type of locker in the factory one? I thought it was electronic (solenoid) but now I here it air? So what is it?

Cheers,
Jack

1993 NJ LWB wrote:I thought it was electronic (solenoid) but now I here it air?

Locker is Air. Axle is 3 mm and the spline count is higher as a result leading to a stronger axle. I seem to remember 25% stronger. Don't be a dumb shit and you should be ok with the locker in but Dean is breaking his with a light load on 35's.

[/quote]

Locker is Air.
[/quote]

vacuum or pressure? Is it easy to make up ya own system to activate?

Pressure but a very low pressure. 6-7psi.

Check Scott's FAQ for everything you need to know about the lockers. It is a good database found HERE, right above this thread The same applies for the 3.5 as 3.0, incl how to get the dash light to work.

Wow thx alot. So if iv got this right and just want to do things as simply as possible with no extra control measures. All I need to do is wire the pump to a switch to turn it on. And have the air line go to the diff. There isn't any pressure control switches or anything is there?(ie if i wired it in this way pressure wont keep building until something goes bang)

Cheers,
Jack

1993 NJ LWB wrote:All I need to do is wire the pump to a switch to turn it on. And have the air line go to the diff. There isn't any pressure control switches or anything is there?

Yep, when using the correct pump it has a built in pressure switch.

The bigger housing bolts straight in. I ran 4.9 rear to 4.8 front and never noticed a prob but I never used 4WD on hard surfaces. I would fit the bigger diff with a LSD over the smaller locker anyday.
The driveshaft flanges are different and the pinion splines don't interchange so you need to mod your D/shaft

That's what I'd do.
Find a 2.8TDI rear axle assembly (it will be 4.9 and lsd) and just bolt the whole thing in as one unit.
Wait for the ARB rear locker to be released (it's not far away) and with that combo on 33"s you will never ever have an issue.
Running 4.875 front and 4.90 rear would be fine and is only a 1.5% difference (2% is the usually excepted maximum ratio difference).
If your concerned then you could always swap the front to a 4.90 and while your at it bung in an ARB locker at the same time !!!!!!
The only downside to all of this is that you will loose 0.5" clearance at the rear but IMHO the strength upgrade more than makes up for this.
The 3.0 V6 28 spline 30.5mm rear axles are a known weak point.
The larger 31 spline 33.5mm rear axles are heaps stronger plus you get the 9.5" rear diff.
The factory lockers on both these rear diffs have been known to break locking mechanisms so they are not as reliable/durable as an ARB locker.

Well the locking diff deal fell through. .. And frankly you guys have talked me out of getting another 3.0 axle anyway. I was wondering what has to be done to get my tail shaft to bolt up to the 9.5" diff and where would I get it done/how much extra cost?

At the front end I assume the entire housing of a 2.8tdi will just drop in as like mine its an 8" high pinion diff?(same mounting points ect) NO issues I should know about at this end?

Cheers,
Jack

1993 NJ LWB wrote: I was wondering what has to be done to get my tail shaft to bolt up to the 9.5" diff and where would I get it done/how much extra cost?

You'd probably need to cut both and then weld back together.

1993 NJ LWB wrote: At the front end I assume the entire housing of a 2.8tdi will just drop in as like mine its an 8" high pinion diff?(same mounting points ect) NO issues I should know about at this end?

Yip. No issues, BUT grab the drivers side CV just in case. Some of them have a different bolt pattern where it comes out of the axle housing.

Glen

NJV6 wrote: You'd probably need to cut both and then weld back together.
Glen

By this do u mean cut mine and the 2.8s DS and weld the end of the 2.8 to the front of mine? Is it just the bolt pattern the different? Could new boles be drilled in either the pinion or DS flange?

You should be able to swap the diff flanges over (ie put the 2.8/3.5 one on your existing 3.0 tailshaft).
Just swap the uni's over as I'm positive they are the same size (30mm cup).
The only problem maybe the tailshaft length but if it needs to be shortened/lengthened any reputable tailshaft place can do this and then rebalance the assembly.

1993 NJ LWB wrote:Well the locking diff deal fell through. .. And frankly you guys have talked me out of getting another 3.0 axle anyway. I was wondering what has to be done to get my tail shaft to bolt up to the 9.5" diff and where would I get it done/how much extra cost?

At the front end I assume the entire housing of a 2.8tdi will just drop in as like mine its an 8" high pinion diff?(same mounting points ect) NO issues I should know about at this end?

Cheers,
Jack

Jack, before you go too far, check the quokka this week - a guy in there last week was wrecking a full paj with factory locker etc etc. Was willing to separate.

Cheers,

Rear uni joints aren't the same. I don't know how big the 3.0L ones are but the 3.5/2.8L ones are pretty big. And from memory $80 to $100 each(aftermarket spicer units, took me a fair while to find because no bearing supply type companys had any listing on them as of about 3 or 4 years ago. Genuine were of course a lot dearer.) compared to maybe $20 each for the smaller units.

Will find the part numbers if required, I may have even posted on here before.

Peter H

Peter I did research this a few years ago to see if an upgrade was possible.
True they are different part no's but the cup size is 30mm rear and 25mm front for both 3.0 & 2.8/3.5.
From what I could find out the difference was only in the circlip position (one was external and the other was internal - can't remember which though).
I did everything but physically try it.
He's got nothing to loose as he will have to buy the rear tailshaft anyway because of the diff flange then he can see if the uni's are indeed interchangeable. If they do then bonus for him if not he's up for a few hundred for a custom shaft.

HotAe92 wrote:Jack, before you go too far, check the quokka this week - a guy in there last week was wrecking a full paj with factory locker etc etc. Was willing to separate.

Cheers,

Phoned that about 2 weeks ago they day I broke my axle and it was gone.

So I am going to go ahead and grab an axle off a 2.8. With all the people out there has no one done this mod b4 to know the ins and outs of getting this tail shaft to fit. Like I said im going ahead with it, I just h8 not knowing!

Jack

Search on 4x4Wire.com for info. In general, people there have swapped Gen II smaller with Gen II bigger/locker, and Gen I to Gen II bigger/locker. I think there maybe a Gen I to Gen II smaller/locker as well.

IIRC, no one had to do any major work to fit things. For my Gen II to Gen II, I just need to get the 3.5s tailshaft flange renmounted to the existing shaft. (Put a new unis in while at it.)

When doing a Gen II bigger to a Gen I, people get the whole axle, including the trailing arms. The Gen IIs are stronger and don't the the fish-plating mod of the Gen Is. When doing this, it is reported to use the Gen I bushings at the ends of the trailing arms.

Bottom line, get a full Gen II big axle and the tailshaft, and you'll be able to fit it together. Also, if you can, grab the dash switch for the air pump, as it makes for a clean install.

[Disclaimer: This info is all based on US delivered models...]

Monty when you say remounted the 3.5 flange onto the existing shaft did you have to cut and rejoin anything or does the flange yoke fit the existing shaft uni's ?
Basically are the uni's the same for both shafts ?

Sorry its taken me so long to post. Well its all done, 4m40 paj axle in my 3l v6 nj. The ratios are so close its fine(0.025 difference), dont notice any wind up even on the black top, so long as u drive a strait line LOL(note i dont drive around on the road in 4 loc but just gently rolled down a 200m+ hill as a test). Had to get a custom tail shaft made to make it all work (welded my smaller uni to the t-case end of the 2.8s shaft). Put all new suspension bushes in wile i was at it.

The LSD in this axle seems much better is it a different type, its off a 96 2.8 Vs. my old one 93 3.0 v6?







Jack