Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey guys,

im currently looking for a vitara simply because its softer than the sierra I used to have... the sierra used to give me a sore back.. i then had a feroza which was heaps better on softness, but wasnt quite as good in the mud and stuff

my question is:

is it possible to make a sierra "soft"?

ideas ive had:

- rubber seat mounts
- seat mounted on springs
- dual shock absorbers, set to very soft
- single shock absorbers, set to very soft
- coily sierra (though i hear they are still hard)

- do big tyres make it softer?
- does big suspension make it softer?

cheers

Paul / drifta

Ok there are a few things you could do to make the ride softer, fortunately these things can help offroad also.

Firstly forget modifying the seat mounts, that is dangerous. Regarding seats short of a truck suspension seat (probably too large to fit in a sierra) just the comfiest seat you can fit that you find in a wrecker should do.

Now a few things make the ride bumpy in a sierra, wheelbase, tyre size and suspension and probably in that order.

Try and find a LWB sierra, if not extend the wheel base of a SWB as much as possible (search for this). Secondly large diameter tyres run at the correct pressure (about 20psi for a sierra works well) on the road will absorb more bumps. Lastly a soft flexy suspension setup with good shackle and and possibly a shackle reversal and decent shock absorbers and also well placed bump stops will also help.

IMHO the ride quality of a sierra can be greatly improved apon over stock if that is your intention, but it won't ever be a range rover.

Fellow in my club has managed to fit seats from on old Sigma SE in his Sierra because he has a crook back. They are a lot softer and a lot more comfy than the standard Sierra seats.

Im using custom modified Ironman leafs in the back, and similar modified OEM sierra rear leafs at the front (thru a chassis extension), and now it rides better than any other sierra ive driven.
You must 'tune' youre suspension mainly to the general weight of youre sierra including passengers and whatever you mostly carry. If you have stiff springs fitted because you carry heavy loads, then the ride will be horrible when theres no weight in it as the suspension will barely flex to absorb bumps. But when the weight is correct, when the sierra hits a bump, the inertia of the body due to weight is such that the springs will flex and absorb the impact. Its all a balancing act.

my setup is soft as until you put the shocks in... if the springs are soft and flexy you need a stiff shock to control it and make it safe - thats the downfall of a lightweight 4x4 =)

Perhaps just wear a kidney belt? lol

Drifta,

You need to look carefully at a few things unrelated to the ride of the car to ensure you are comfortable. Back pain is not normally associated with a harsh ride, it's more to do with holding the body tense due to inadequacies in the driving position.

My STI daily driver is far more stiffly sprung than most 4WD's and I have a SP-G recaro race seat in it with about 3/4" of foam under my bum. That's it. I have no problems with back pain or discomfort even after hours at the wheel.

Sierras have crap driving positions. Typically, the seat is too reclined and the steering wheel is too high and too far away from the driver. Stock sierra seats re also far too soft to provide any decent support.

I run Sparco Sprint fixed back race seats in my 1.0 and a Baleno steering wheel to help improve the driving position, but it's still not ideal I get shoulder and neck pain after a long drive (i.e all day) but it's not too bad.

Really, you want to get the driving position sorted. This might mean a new seat - look to a firm seat from a Japanese sports model, or a quality aftermarket seat ( $400+ for a fixed back seat, $700+ for a quality recliner, from a known, good brand like Recaro, Sparco, MOMO, OMP, Corbeau or similar, avoid generic chinese made seats in chain stores and Ebay - some are excellent, some are terrible.) Also look at the steering wheel location. Swift, baleno or vitara wheels sit closer to the driver and will allow a more natural, bent arm driving position.

Even brake pedal height can make a big difference to driving comfort. The brake pedal rest height is only set by a little tab on the pedal and the stop light switch. If the pedal sits too high at rest you'll get sore from picking you whole leg up to hit the pedal.

As to ride, a sierra can ride very well, but they often dont.

RUF with OME springs and soft shocks like N76's will give a very nice ride, much better than you would think possible in a light leaf sprung car. Stock OME shocks are quite stiff because they're trying to prevent bottoming and assist in handling with a load, also, most peolple go for aftermarket springs to gain lift, but this also equals a higher rate and more harshness. if your car runs light, run light springs to get the best ride.


Just some thoughts.

so from what ive gathered to make a sierra softer..

simple things
- install sigma seats ( is this an easy rail swap? )
- get 'soft shocks'
- buy a kidney belt ;-)
- lower brake pedal

not so simple/cheap things

- install vitara steering wheel
- install bigger tyres, run them at 20psi
- modify the suspension "ruf?" and try extend the wheelbase


.... or just buy a vitara =)

Paul - think about the terrain you intend to drive - a stock vitara made the powerlines from talbot rd west to atkins rd mundaring with me - sure, he couldn't make all the sections and used bail out tracks - but he made the whole distance (my mums rav4 couldnt without me towing it).

Based on that terrain, will a vitara suit what you want offroad? if so, then you have your answer =)

drifta wrote:so from what ive gathered to make a sierra softer..

simple things
- install sigma seats ( is this an easy rail swap? )
- get 'soft shocks'
- buy a kidney belt ;-)
- lower brake pedal

not so simple/cheap things

- install vitara steering wheel
- install bigger tyres, run them at 20psi
- modify the suspension "ruf?" and try extend the wheelbase


.... or just buy a vitara =)

Mate one simple thing "STRENGTHEN YOUR GUT MUSCLES" you will find that will help more than you could imagine.

^^ true - i sit at a computer all day for work and about 2 months ago i got a fitball off ebay for $30... been sitting on it since and i dont get anywhere near as bad of a neck and back as i used to from slouching in an office chair...

Gwagensteve wrote:Drifta,

You need to look carefully at a few things unrelated to the ride of the car to ensure you are comfortable. Back pain is not normally associated with a harsh ride, it's more to do with holding the body tense due to inadequacies in the driving position.

My STI daily driver is far more stiffly sprung than most 4WD's and I have a SP-G recaro race seat in it with about 3/4" of foam under my bum. That's it. I have no problems with back pain or discomfort even after hours at the wheel.

Sierras have crap driving positions. Typically, the seat is too reclined and the steering wheel is too high and too far away from the driver. Stock sierra seats re also far too soft to provide any decent support.

I run Sparco Sprint fixed back race seats in my 1.0 and a Baleno steering wheel to help improve the driving position, but it's still not ideal I get shoulder and neck pain after a long drive (i.e all day) but it's not too bad.

Really, you want to get the driving position sorted. This might mean a new seat - look to a firm seat from a Japanese sports model, or a quality aftermarket seat ( $400+ for a fixed back seat, $700+ for a quality recliner, from a known, good brand like Recaro, Sparco, MOMO, OMP, Corbeau or similar, avoid generic chinese made seats in chain stores and Ebay - some are excellent, some are terrible.) Also look at the steering wheel location. Swift, baleno or vitara wheels sit closer to the driver and will allow a more natural, bent arm driving position.

Even brake pedal height can make a big difference to driving comfort. The brake pedal rest height is only set by a little tab on the pedal and the stop light switch. If the pedal sits too high at rest you'll get sore from picking you whole leg up to hit the pedal.

As to ride, a sierra can ride very well, but they often dont.

RUF with OME springs and soft shocks like N76's will give a very nice ride, much better than you would think possible in a light leaf sprung car. Stock OME shocks are quite stiff because they're trying to prevent bottoming and assist in handling with a load, also, most peolple go for aftermarket springs to gain lift, but this also equals a higher rate and more harshness. if your car runs light, run light springs to get the best ride.


Just some thoughts.

coil sierra steering wheels are another option i had one in my 81 model made a huge difference to driving position

I just went from my sierra to a vit.......

Should of done it ages ago!

The ride is awsome, the extra power is awsome, drivin down a dirt road is awsome HIttin the tracks and havin coils instead of springs is heaps better!

ALready on 31's gunna bolt the 32's on and lock both ends and i'll be happy as!

suzuki boy wrote:I just went from my sierra to a vit.......

Should of done it ages ago!

The ride is awsome, the extra power is awsome, drivin down a dirt road is awsome HIttin the tracks and havin coils instead of springs is heaps better!

ALready on 31's gunna bolt the 32's on and lock both ends and i'll be happy as!

You'll be able to changes CV's blindfolded soon......

Jas.

Yeah....... Can't wait for that!

Am gunna see might go 31's simex trekers or something! Will bolt the swampers on cause there there!

Bwahahaha

32 swampers on a stock Vit front end

In 8 months you'll be wishing you never sold your sierra

Steve.

you'll have to change your signature now to

Vitara in garage with broken cv's, dirt road driving is awesome tho

Ah well i'm lovin it at them moment......I'll say that now ask me later on!

With 31's







Thats with a 4" suspension lift and a dodgy 1" body lift(I'll redo with a 2" body lift!)

If you want pic's of the shocks and stuff used let me know!

nice pictures of the vitara there buddy.. thanks for sharing? efi or carby? what kind of fuel economy do u get?

cheers
Paul

looks like a sweet ride

No worries mate!

Its the carby a 92 model and if the fuel gauge is right i filled it up and on the 31's and alot of city driving i got close to 300k's out of the tank! Not sure if thats good or bad but it's only a weekend toy!

Let me know if you want me to look for numbers and stuff on springs had a AVERY quick look today and all i could see at a glance is that the shock's where munroe and the springs where yellow.....

suzuki boy wrote: Its the carby a 92 model and if the fuel gauge is right i filled it up and on the 31's and alot of city driving i got close to 300k's out of the tank! Not sure if thats good or bad but it's only a weekend toy!

You either have a seriously mangled fuel tank, or you need a serious tune up/rebuild/or gun to shoot car. Vitara tank should be 55L (perfect). Even if you assume 50L (some dinting), thats still about 6km/L (or about 16.7 L / 100km for people who like these dumb units). Thats pretty poor. My Sierra managed 8.5 - 9 km/L when it ran 31 MTs without any gearing, with re-gearing to suit its back up towards 9.5-10 km/L.



drifta
You said you used to own a Sierra, and it gave you a sore back. Was this vehicle 100% standard, or mildly moded, etc etc. Just for a reference point on how much potential for improvement there could be.

the biggest problem with harsh riding cars is usually the short wheelbase. The closer you sit to the axles the harsher the ride. So ideally you woul dbe looking for a LWB sierra with a RUF conversion. My LWB Sierra had a nice ride compared to SWB ones. Obviously once it went from 31s up to 34" Swampers the ride wasn't as good but a mild lift with RUF and 31s running about 20 psi gives a very nice ride

Highway-Star wrote:

suzuki boy wrote: Its the carby a 92 model and if the fuel gauge is right i filled it up and on the 31's and alot of city driving i got close to 300k's out of the tank! Not sure if thats good or bad but it's only a weekend toy!

You either have a seriously mangled fuel tank, or you need a serious tune up/rebuild/or gun to shoot car. Vitara tank should be 55L (perfect). Even if you assume 50L (some dinting), thats still about 6km/L (or about 16.7 L / 100km for people who like these dumb units). Thats pretty poor. My Sierra managed 8.5 - 9 km/L when it ran 31 MTs without any gearing, with re-gearing to suit its back up towards 9.5-10 km/L.



drifta
You said you used to own a Sierra, and it gave you a sore back. Was this vehicle 100% standard, or mildly moded, etc etc. Just for a reference point on how much potential for improvement there could be.

Now you put it like that...... Tank looks alright!

Go's like an absolute rocket so may be runnin rich or something! My sierra on 32's and all geared and stuff used to get about 300 out of it's dinted tank!

suzuki boy wrote:

Highway-Star wrote:

suzuki boy wrote: Its the carby a 92 model and if the fuel gauge is right i filled it up and on the 31's and alot of city driving i got close to 300k's out of the tank! Not sure if thats good or bad but it's only a weekend toy!

You either have a seriously mangled fuel tank, or you need a serious tune up/rebuild/or gun to shoot car. Vitara tank should be 55L (perfect). Even if you assume 50L (some dinting), thats still about 6km/L (or about 16.7 L / 100km for people who like these dumb units). Thats pretty poor. My Sierra managed 8.5 - 9 km/L when it ran 31 MTs without any gearing, with re-gearing to suit its back up towards 9.5-10 km/L.



drifta
You said you used to own a Sierra, and it gave you a sore back. Was this vehicle 100% standard, or mildly moded, etc etc. Just for a reference point on how much potential for improvement there could be.

Now you put it like that...... Tank looks alright!

Go's like an absolute rocket so may be runnin rich or something! My sierra on 32's and all geared and stuff used to get about 300 out of it's dinted tank!

If its running rich it will be doughy and unresponsive, not go like a rocket.

Layto....

Ah well i don't know!

Maybe the fuel gage isn't right.......Has extractors and a 3" exhaust would that matter?

3" Exhaust is huge on a NA 1.6!
You sure it's not just a tip?

Looking at the photo's, thats not a 3 inch exhaust.
To work out economy, fill the tank till the fuel pump cuts out, then reset your trip meter. Drive around for the week, then re-fill the tank, taking note of the KM's, and amount of fuel used. Then work out how many litres per 100KM or how many KM pre litre. Are you allowing for the tyre increase in size? If its running way rich it will be blowing black smoke.


Layto....

Definatly not a tip on the exhaust!

Blows no smoke whats so ever! Maybe fuel gauge is out? Will do your thing layto!

Highway-Star wrote:
drifta
You said you used to own a Sierra, and it gave you a sore back. Was this vehicle 100% standard, or mildly moded, etc etc. Just for a reference point on how much potential for improvement there could be.

highway star,

the sierra i had was an 1988 model, it had 235 tyres and a nice bullbar on front but apart from that was stock, me and alien greased the shackles, which helped a little, but it still was too harsh.. the shocks probably needed replacing, i cant remember if i replaced them or not, they werent the standard ones.. monroe i think.


my fuel economy wasnt the greatest on that car either, but it was a heck of alot of fun to drive..

my reasoning for the vitara is

a) more power
b) better fuel efficiency
c) much more bearable ride.

I like to drive kind of rapidly offroad and i found that it would get really jerky especially on gravel and the powerline track in mundaring..

after the sierra i had a feroza (similar to vitara) which was way better offroad, as in i could drive for a lot longer before getting sore and fatigued, and the kind of stuff i was doing I didnt really need the fixed axle on front anyway.. and the extra efi power meant i would get bogged less often in the sand without having to deflate my tyres to ridiculous levels

in other ways it was not as good offroad.. it was not as good going through mud, the sierra just kept going hard where the feroza started to chug and water got in somehow so it ran crappy for 10mins after going through big puddles.

for the kind of driving i do, the vitara seems to be a good option.. im less into rock crawling and more into faster semi-rally driving =) ..and sand dunes..

drifta wrote:

Highway-Star wrote:
drifta
You said you used to own a Sierra, and it gave you a sore back. Was this vehicle 100% standard, or mildly moded, etc etc. Just for a reference point on how much potential for improvement there could be.

highway star,

the sierra i had was an 1988 model, it had 235 tyres and a nice bullbar on front but apart from that was stock, me and alien greased the shackles, which helped a little, but it still was too harsh.. the shocks probably needed replacing, i cant remember if i replaced them or not, they werent the standard ones.. monroe i think.


my fuel economy wasnt the greatest on that car either, but it was a heck of alot of fun to drive..

my reasoning for the vitara is

a) more power
b) better fuel efficiency
c) much more bearable ride.

I like to drive kind of rapidly offroad and i found that it would get really jerky especially on gravel and the powerline track in mundaring..

after the sierra i had a feroza (similar to vitara) which was way better offroad, as in i could drive for a lot longer before getting sore and fatigued, and the kind of stuff i was doing I didnt really need the fixed axle on front anyway.. and the extra efi power meant i would get bogged less often in the sand without having to deflate my tyres to ridiculous levels

in other ways it was not as good offroad.. it was not as good going through mud, the sierra just kept going hard where the feroza started to chug and water got in somehow so it ran crappy for 10mins after going through big puddles.

for the kind of driving i do, the vitara seems to be a good option.. im less into rock crawling and more into faster semi-rally driving =) ..and sand dunes..

From that it could be said there is still allot of potential for improvement in the comfort area over what you had before (as per many of the earlier posts of other users).

Though from what you say a Vitara may be more suitable for your needs. Suzuki sold both simultaneously for a reason after all.

SWB carby/1.6 EFI vitara tank is 42 litres.

Steve.