Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I am putting to you as the 4wd public.

A person that i have spoken with may be interested in forming a 4wd, camping, and possiably comp venue. For members of 4wd clubs and non club members.

Simailar to Landcruiser park, Rover park, etc. This would be a regestered camping business

But the question is would people travel out side of sydney to use such a venue with 4wd tracks, camping grounds and some facilaties.

How far would you travel for a weekend away?
(location is north of sydney in hunter area and approx 600 (i think) acres)

A; 1hr north from start of freeway.
B; 2hrs north from start of freeway.
C; 3hrs north from start of freeway. OR MORE ?
And how much per day /weekend would you consider paying

please pm answear or interest so i may have a little of bargening power to put to the land holder.

I would/do go 2 hrs, but closer is always better - As for price, it depends on facilities and quality. $10 per head I reckon...

I would go as for price i think 10-15bucks entry for a day and camping extra, if you keep it cheap people will come if it gets to pricey people will just find there own tracks, I was thinking of doing this but to get the land where i wanted was 100k to much, i hope it happens

my hand is up i think its a great idea anything closer to sydney than the rest is gunna be great and i think the same as matto 10-15 a day and more for camping

if it was decent I would drive up to 3 hours. Unregistered vehicles too please!

napsta wrote:if it was decent I would drive up to 3 hours. Unregistered vehicles too please!

Agreed.
If you build it, they will come.

Distance is relative. Since I moved out of Sydney 1hr's drive is now just 'down the road'

So I'd travel 3 for sure, if it was any good.

As far as price goes, depends on facilities. For just bush camping I don't think I'd pay more than $10/day.

I'm on a camping forum too and they had a thread a while back on how much people would be willing to pay to camp, the general consensus was that $20 would be the max reasonable fee.

$10/$15 per day? You guys are dreaming it'd need double that just to break even after paying insurance & council fees.

cheers

What do they charge at Landcruiser Park?

Jeeps wrote:$10/$15 per day? You guys are dreaming it'd need double that just to break even after paying insurance & council fees.

cheers

Was thinking the same.
but as said, if theres shower and dunny blocks, you can expect lots more than $20 a day!

Also depends on terrain, tracks, etc...

Get him to check out insurance first, that may make his mind up on the spot.

If u want something like Cruiser or Rover then here's some thoughts for you.....Public Liability is the big one. Budget as a minimum $10,000 per annum.
$10 ?? I don't think so

Jeeps wrote:$10/$15 per day? You guys are dreaming it'd need double that just to break even after paying insurance & council fees.

cheers

That's what I was thinking, it's 2008 not 1988.

65Mog wrote:

Jeeps wrote:$10/$15 per day? You guys are dreaming it'd need double that just to break even after paying insurance & council fees.

cheers

That's what I was thinking, it's 2008 not 1988.

even 30 a day would be reasonable if you got nowhere else to wheel..
Maybe see if the local council is interested in an injection of money for local business' .. they may be keen to be involved.

trail rides cost upwards of $60, trials $35 an event with nothing to the land holder. This is also for riders with a valid racing license and $40 extra for those without. Granted 4x4ing is 100 times safer than any 2 wheeled motorsport we have to remember that in order for a venue to remain operational a fair price would need to be paid.

Without any disrespect to others that have posted here i feel $10 is way too little. I would not let others drive on my property for those dollars and I am all for the sport. I think that there should be scope for CCDA members etc to have reduced entry fees etc.

I hate seeing many parks close for financial reasons in a time where land use for 4x4 is getting harder to find.

cheers bru

Having never used a 4x4 park I don't know what to expect, so my $10 suggestion was based on Stockton Beach, the only place I have paid to drive.
I guess I am used to wheeling for free...

i think for comps it would be a goer murray.
camping maybe... but $12ish a day i think is as much as most would pay. but depends if there are any amenities etc.... more for more etc.

but is 600 acres enough?
i would think that would be too small for tracks etc.

Camping $20-$25pp provided there are good ammenitites

Wheeling max $30per car. and a ½ price camp rate? Also tracks would need to be changed on a regular enough basis so as not to make the place boring on a return visit.

Definately agree on ccda members reduced rate.

I drive a minimum 1hour to a wheeling spot now anyway. dont mind travel.

Boat harbour national park at cronulla charge $19 per day per 4x4. They must be registered and they strictly state they have NO PUBLIC LIABILITY IF ANY 4X4 OR PERSONS ARE INJURED IN THE PARK. They close gates at (correct me if im wrong 7pm).

So there ur paying 20 bucks to drive ur 4x4 on the beach and dunes no strings attatched. every time ive been there ive been for about two hours and seen minimum 10 4wds.

Do the maths, add on to the fee relative camping charges and realise the less people have to drive the more they will fork out.

k3lst

you guys need to checkout miranne mountan wilderness park 1 hour from newcastle over 1000 acres i think its 15 dollars a night to camp
trailbikes 4x4 paragliding horse riding

why north? heaps of cheap land around mudgee/rylstone etc.

ssfabricator wrote:you guys need to checkout miranne mountan wilderness park 1 hour from newcastle over 1000 acres i think its 15 dollars a night to camp
trailbikes 4x4 paragliding horse riding

Have you got anymore info on this place or a link?

I grew up on 1200 acres, 600 will not be enough, not even close. It would be ok for just camping but not 4x4ing aswell.

LCMP is something like 4000 acres. Well its bloody big even if its not that big.

v840 wrote: Agreed.
If you build it, they will come.

Have to plow up the corn first

Guts wrote:I grew up on 1200 acres, 600 will not be enough, not even close. It would be ok for just camping but not 4x4ing aswell.

LCMP is something like 4000 acres. Well its bloody big even if its not that big.

i was thinking the same, my old mans farm is 1400 acres of bush with tracks and you can drive around that in about half hour, so im thing you will need a fair bit of land,

rob

mattsluxtruck wrote:

ssfabricator wrote:you guys need to checkout miranne mountan wilderness park 1 hour from newcastle over 1000 acres i think its 15 dollars a night to camp
trailbikes 4x4 paragliding horse riding

Have you got anymore info on this place or a link?

Not sure about a link mate but heres his number
Mirannie Mountain Wilderness Park
Ph: 65776197
Not a bad place to go for a wheel, in the fourby or on the bikes. Its so close to home i go out pretty often. Its about 15 mins max from singleton.

the person is ken how ownes a feed lot running 800 head of cattle every 45 days and is looking at purchasing a block to back ground up to 800 head from singleton/newcastle stock auctions.

I have been working on there farm and have told them of my exp. in 4x4 clubs, and comps and that it is hard to find good places to go.

I currently live on 500 acres with 1400 close by but is 8hrs from sydney.So yes 500 acres is smallish but i think would be a good start if heavaly wooded and hilly.

the plan is to purchase a uncleared 450 - 1000 acre land the enter the future carbon trading market or purchase 2000 acres plus to run cattle plus feed cropping for both farms.

some of the decision would be if camping, hourse riding, or 4wd sport may be a viable part of the land use and income. there would be showers/toilets etc as per council regs. but did not consider higher public liabilaty,

im not sure how you will go with running a business on the lot and doing carbon trading there.
the exposure i have had with people using lots for carbon trading purposes lately is that they were still doing minor logging until the end of their existing lease then leaving it as a natural habitat with minimal fire trails even.
and these lots were 4000ha. so 10,000acres each.

just looking at the size i think you would want minimum 2000acres for a 4x4 park.

with the amenities thing, you would want to make sure you quote the numbers of visitors as low, consider you will need a pump out system or a large area for transpiration etc. Finding the water for the showers and toilets could also be a challenge. Also council might well sting you for upgrading of roads etc. so you will want to look into this a little bit. and once again quote your expected number of visitors as low as reasonable. as vehicle movements per day will effect your contributions or the amount of work to be undertaken.
try to also make sure the land isnt flood prone as that will cause you more grief, and you will need a bushfire report, possibly a traffic study.
there is going to be mass paperwork to do it properly.
thats my 2c worth.

DIRTY ROCK STAR wrote:im not sure how you will go with running a business on the lot and doing carbon trading there.
the exposure i have had with people using lots for carbon trading purposes lately is that they were still doing minor logging until the end of their existing lease then leaving it as a natural habitat with minimal fire trails even.
and these lots were 4000ha. so 10,000acres each.

just looking at the size i think you would want minimum 2000acres for a 4x4 park.

with the amenities thing, you would want to make sure you quote the numbers of visitors as low, consider you will need a pump out system or a large area for transpiration etc. Finding the water for the showers and toilets could also be a challenge. Also council might well sting you for upgrading of roads etc. so you will want to look into this a little bit. and once again quote your expected number of visitors as low as reasonable. as vehicle movements per day will effect your contributions or the amount of work to be undertaken.
try to also make sure the land isnt flood prone as that will cause you more grief, and you will need a bushfire report, possibly a traffic study.
there is going to be mass paperwork to do it properly.
thats my 2c worth.

DRS you are 100% correct lots and lots and lots more to do..........


Fire escapes, Drainage, emergency access, The council DA are going to be a killer.

Unfortunately you wont get a park near Sydney 1hr +
It has been tried before and failed due to DA's and cost
Good luck though !!!!!!

You could possibly get away with a smaller property if you had set up some technical challenge tracks that test a vehicles capabilities while not compromising (too much) the safety of passengers in a stock vehicle, with easy access for recovery etc.

The 4x4 park in werribee wouldn't be more than 200 acres and this setup is awesome if you are looking at different challenges for your 4by. This would limit the amount of users you could have in the park and also having the flexibility to modify the tracks every now and then will keep people interested and coming back.

Penrith Whitewater stadium is a good example of the possibilities. 400m of whitewater with the ability to change the nature of every rapid in the section with removable pylons and other temporary structures. If I was local I would go there every week to kayak if the course was changed around often. I know victorians who head up to Penrith on a regular basis to get a good dose of whitewater when nothing is running down here. I'm sure someone like The Hanko if he's reading this can back this up. I think this sort of model on a larger scale would be a good day out for the family and friends.

I also feel support of the comp scene as well would also increase the viability of these sorts of businesses.

Basic Trials events that require a club membership for insurance reasons held every 3 months with different courses will allow participants to put themselves up against their mates in relatively stock vehicles. this has a douible barreled effect of increasing club membership and opening up the accesibility to people from all levels of 4x4.

of course there are flaws to every plan and keeping the stock 4x4er to the hardcore full custom rigs happy is a big ask.

maxtrax wrote:I currently live on 500 acres with 1400 close by but is 8hrs from sydney.

I think 8 hours would shit can most peoples interest in going.