Outer Limits 4x4 Board

can i use just a dropped pitman arm (to keep the steering under the leaves)
or do i have to/or better off doing a hi-steer set up to have spoa?

No you will still end up with the steering arm rubbing on the leaf pack even with a drop Pit man arm.

ok kool just wasnt sure if it was safe or not..so the best and safest is just get a hi steer kit.?

zookkid wrote:ok kool just wasnt sure if it was safe or not..so the best and safest is just get a hi steer kit.?

yep that would be ur best bet

Mine is SPOA with a dropped pitman arm, and my steering never rubbed on springs or anything...

I am installing an OTT Stage II kit from Rocky Road tomorrow though...

lump_a_charcoal wrote:Mine is SPOA with a dropped pitman arm, and my steering never rubbed on springs or anything...

Maybe your bump stops kicked in first.... Or you never had enough flex for it to happen, or you never wheeled hard enough... Normally on full lock left turn drivers side wheel up in the guard and the passenger side on full down flex there was contact on the springs.

do the merc arm set up like this

http://www.zukikrawlers.com/showthread.php?t=174

jimbo

jimbo jones wrote:do the merc arm set up like this

http://www.zukikrawlers.com/showthread.php?t=174

jimbo

check with an engineer. some don't like steering bolted to brake components.

Is that the arm that you have to elongate one of the holes on to make it fit?

lump_a_charcoal wrote:Is that the arm that you have to elongate one of the holes on to make it fit?

Yep.

Layto.....

I have never been a fan of that setup, that bracket (the caliper bracket) was simply never ever designed to take those loads.

love_mud wrote:I have never been a fan of that setup, that bracket (the caliper bracket) was simply never ever designed to take those loads.

but so many ppl have done it and succeded. i dont think i have ever heard of any real dramas

11_evl wrote:

love_mud wrote:I have never been a fan of that setup, that bracket (the caliper bracket) was simply never ever designed to take those loads.

but so many ppl have done it and succeded. i dont think i have ever heard of any real dramas

Lots of people put bug V6's into suzukis as well without real drama's .. that does not make it a good idea.

11_evl wrote:

love_mud wrote:I have never been a fan of that setup, that bracket (the caliper bracket) was simply never ever designed to take those loads.

but so many ppl have done it and succeded. i dont think i have ever heard of any real dramas

I understand what you're saying, but I dunno. I equate steering, in terms of importance, with brakes. I do not want to cut corners with it. I would rather pay an extra few hundred dollars and not ever have to worry about it than be out wheeling and thinking to myself "will it or won't it?".



Just to clarify, I have done the grand total of one SOA on a sierra which belonged to a mate. He provided a Hi-steer kit on my reccomendation and has never looked back. I can't really comment on whether the merc arms are dangerous or not as Ive never used them, I was just trying to make the point that for a difference of a few hundred bucks, why risk it?

What sort of Merc is it from

rocky road do a nice high steer setup
It is a one piece machined bracket that replaces the top king pin and mount bolts it also mounts to the caliper bracket so its held on by six bolts
its a pain to fit but its a great setup.
You can buy it in two stages steering arm from box to swivel and from swivel to swivel
If you order one of these remember to tell them you want the opposite side if you only by the first part of the kit

I run one of these they are really well made gear
cheers andrew

I agree - I bought the stage 2 kit recently, was meant to be installed today, but shit happened.

Rocky Road make some good gear, well worth a look, once the dollar goes back up that is.

v840 wrote:I would rather pay an extra few hundred dollars and not ever have to worry about it than be out wheeling and thinking to myself "will it or won't it?".

thats just the problem, its not a few hundred dollars. its $1k for the snake knuckle. any other histeer kit will bolt to either the brake bracket or the king pin or both. but i really don't think buying a kit to bolt to the bracket is any better or worse than the merc arm setup except you have to fork out hundreds of dollars just to say you have a bought kit.
couple of other points to add, .....the merc arm thing has been talked about before with mixed opinions..... merc arms don't break...... brake brackets don't break...... ANY full high steer kit has an effect on ackerman angle.
jason

Toecutta wrote:What sort of Merc is it from

http://outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic37011.p ... t=mercedes

http://www.zukikrawlers.com/showthread. ... t=mercedes

mr green wrote:

v840 wrote:I would rather pay an extra few hundred dollars and not ever have to worry about it than be out wheeling and thinking to myself "will it or won't it?".

thats just the problem, its not a few hundred dollars. its $1k for the snake knuckle. any other histeer kit will bolt to either the brake bracket or the king pin or both. but i really don't think buying a kit to bolt to the bracket is any better or worse than the merc arm setup except you have to fork out hundreds of dollars just to say you have a bought kit.
couple of other points to add, .....the merc arm thing has been talked about before with mixed opinions..... merc arms don't break...... brake brackets don't break...... ANY full high steer kit has an effect on ackerman angle.
jason

If you think a SOA is a "cheap" mod then you are mistaken. Yes, you can do a McSOA cheaply but to do them properly it costs money.
The $1K on steering is probably the biggest expense in the whole process, but as I said in my post, I think it is worth it.

I am totally aware that merc arms have worked well for alot of people, I'm only saying that I'm not convinced that a proper hi-steer kit is not cheap insurance.

The effect on the ackerman angle is negligible in either the merc or hi-steer setups IMO. But like I said, I only have one zook SO worth of experience to draw on so please take what I say with a grain of salt.

v840 wrote:

mr green wrote:

v840 wrote:I would rather pay an extra few hundred dollars and not ever have to worry about it than be out wheeling and thinking to myself "will it or won't it?".

thats just the problem, its not a few hundred dollars. its $1k for the snake knuckle. any other histeer kit will bolt to either the brake bracket or the king pin or both. but i really don't think buying a kit to bolt to the bracket is any better or worse than the merc arm setup except you have to fork out hundreds of dollars just to say you have a bought kit.
couple of other points to add, .....the merc arm thing has been talked about before with mixed opinions..... merc arms don't break...... brake brackets don't break...... ANY full high steer kit has an effect on ackerman angle.
jason

If you think a SOA is a "cheap" mod then you are mistaken. Yes, you can do a McSOA cheaply but to do them properly it costs money.
The $1K on steering is probably the biggest expense in the whole process, but as I said in my post, I think it is worth it.

I am totally aware that merc arms have worked well for alot of people, I'm only saying that I'm not convinced that a proper hi-steer kit is not cheap insurance.

The effect on the ackerman angle is negligible in either the merc or hi-steer setups IMO. But like I said, I only have one zook SO worth of experience to draw on so please take what I say with a grain of salt.

my mate and I did the McSPOA with what I would call a success and have also spoken to some one that got it engineered in NSW so it cant be all that bad if you want one try the US ebay there got shit loads of them over there but there like hens teeth over here

here's one on ebay in the states now


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-S ... dZViewItem

jimbo

The change in Ackermann angle is only apparent if full high steer is used, and the steering arms have a different offset from the knuckle. If you only go x-over, and keep the standard tie-rock mounting points, the Ackermann angle will stay factory.



Ackermann angle is the difference in turning angle in the front wheels to allow for the differing turning radius, as shown in the top diagra. In the diagram lower section you can see the lines drawn forward from the centre of the rear diff, to intersect the centre of the bearings in the kingpins. The steering arms from the hubs should follow this line, either behind or infront of the hubs. Ignore the rack in the diagram and pretend it is a tie-rod. Not all factory setups arecorrect though, as wheel base changed effect angle, yet same diffs are in LWB and SWB zooks as an example.


Layto....

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h169/ ... C03101.jpg


Now imagine a dropped pitman arm and this spring .. they would end up getting quite friendly.