Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Anyone that has a 4x4 that they use on weekends, for club events and alike, not a daily driver.
Did you know if your vehicle had the exterior appearance of a vehicle older than 25 years you could get a club permit and not worry about emissions, roadworthy, tyres or anything like that. The current registration laws allow for historic vehicles or replicas to be registered for club use. You could have a blown 454 with twin 4bbl carbies in a replica 57 chev on a hand made chassis with custom suspension and so on without a problem. There is also rec. reg for motorbikes, ideally we need the ability to drive to and from the bush.

As a group we need to speak to our clubs and the CCDA to make an opening for recreational four wheel drivers in the road laws, only as a group can we make change, and hopefully before we are put off the road for our tyres, lift, engines and all the other mods that make it so much fun.

Cheers

Joel

sounds like a great idea joel

Im assuming it will still need an Engineers cert? to be roadworthy etc..

Are you sure about rout historic club rego rules, usually these are for vehicles that are standard.

I thought the hot rod rego allowed for building hot rods without engineers certification.

Great Idea, Any links to some solid info on this sort of registration?

Only issue I see with 4bys going down the rec reg scenario is that if they keep the regulations the same as bikes, doesn't that mean that we have to trailer our rigs to designated areas before they can be put on the road?

Still better than the current situation, and what about the cars appearance looking older than 25 years old? thats a very subjective use of words...my zook is just over 20 years old now, does that mean if I bang a few more dints in it and throw some dirt on it that it will appear older than 25?

Joel this is a great idea, one i'd be keen to follow up considering my situation, zook weekend bush 4by, 34s, 20v 4age, BL etc...hardly a legal ride...

Club rego only allows you to do a certain amount of kms per year. You can only drive it to and from club events and to and from mechanical repar shops. They are pretty restrictive to what you and can't do. It's not free rein to have a heavily modified vehicle. They have to met road worthy standards and have to be close to stock (that' for the historical 25 year +) I looke dinto this when we had a 67HR and a 70 Valiant to save on costs but in the end proved abit to restrictive for our needs

As far as i knoe rec reg in vic on bikes means you can ride them on public roads where the speed limit is 100km per hour. but not through towns.

as for club reg only allowing for use at club events - that would work just fine as long as the club was active and had drives each weekend.

thehanko wrote:As far as i knoe rec reg in vic on bikes means you can ride them on public roads where the speed limit is 100km per hour. but not through towns.

as for club reg only allowing for use at club events - that would work just fine as long as the club was active and had drives each weekend.

but you have a restricted amount of kms per year I believe which could prove to be a problem as most 4wding is some distance from home for most people

if the car has to be 25 years or older and is a dedicated trail rig, im sure most people could forget to connect their speedo cable. as most of these cars wouldnt like the speed limit to much anyway.

but yeah i hear you. though for rec reg on a bike there is no limit to k's. however classic car reg there is a limit of k's - and its not many.

or we could all just chip in a buy a farm and drive to our hearts content...

thehanko wrote:As far as i knoe rec reg in vic on bikes means you can ride them on public roads where the speed limit is 100km per hour. but not through towns..

Apparently as the bloke in the bike shop near Kananook stn told me the other day that Rec-Rego rules were coming up for review - expect much tighter...
I only asked bout it for my XR as its 1/10th the price of rego.
:(

currently:
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Mot ... ration.htm

or we could all just chip in a buy a farm and drive to our hearts content...
This is probably the best option.
Some "CLUB" owns property, and your all members of this club.

bogged wrote: or we could all just chip in a buy a farm and drive to our hearts content...
This is probably the best option.
Some "CLUB" owns property, and your all members of this club.

Yeh cos that worked for the last club you were a member of

grimbo wrote:Club rego only allows you to do a certain amount of kms per year. You can only drive it to and from club events and to and from mechanical repar shops. They are pretty restrictive to what you and can't do. It's not free rein to have a heavily modified vehicle. They have to met road worthy standards and have to be close to stock (that' for the historical 25 year +) I looke dinto this when we had a 67HR and a 70 Valiant to save on costs but in the end proved abit to restrictive for our needs

I've never seen mention of the restricted km's in any of the paperwork and you can also drive it for testing puposes. It does need to be roadworthy and if it is modified and not a hot rod that has been approved then it still needs an Engineers cert. We've been looking into this as we have a number of vehicles that could or would shortly qualify in the Club. The plus is that it only costs about $100 per annum for Reg and TAC. The downside is you can't use it whenever you want.

ddr wrote:

bogged wrote: or we could all just chip in a buy a farm and drive to our hearts content...
This is probably the best option.
Some "CLUB" owns property, and your all members of this club.

Yeh cos that worked for the last club you were a member of

i can imagine all sorts of issues with a club style buy of land - power struggles, etc.

better off being a group of guys who own shares of a company who owns land.

ie each company has 100 shares, if 20 members are directors each with 5 shares. majority rules with voting and members can sell their option to other people. friends of members can use it but they pay a nominal upkeep fee.

that way for instance 20 guys each chip in 5k, buy a 100 acres of land thats to steep for farming and not worth much say 100k out of the city. id do that for sure.

AS FOR REC REGO ON BIKES.
i had to sell my last bike cause i couldnt ride it anywhere legally - no rec rego in nsw except stockton beach.

its a pain paying 500 bucks just so i can ride off road, but i still do it.

ddr wrote:Yeh cos that worked for the last club you were a member of

I mean keep the membership age < 80 & know what the little lever is for & why your car is known as a 4wd.

cj wrote:

grimbo wrote:Club rego only allows you to do a certain amount of kms per year. You can only drive it to and from club events and to and from mechanical repar shops. They are pretty restrictive to what you and can't do. It's not free rein to have a heavily modified vehicle. They have to met road worthy standards and have to be close to stock (that' for the historical 25 year +) I looke dinto this when we had a 67HR and a 70 Valiant to save on costs but in the end proved abit to restrictive for our needs

I've never seen mention of the restricted km's in any of the paperwork and you can also drive it for testing puposes. It does need to be roadworthy and if it is modified and not a hot rod that has been approved then it still needs an Engineers cert. We've been looking into this as we have a number of vehicles that could or would shortly qualify in the Club. The plus is that it only costs about $100 per annum for Reg and TAC. The downside is you can't use it whenever you want.

limited kms is because you can only use it for the mentioned reasons, hence limited kms. My wording wasn't exact sorry

At the end of the day we have registration rules, ADR's, and engineering standards so that we don't have some farkwit bootyfabbing totally unsafe piles of crap and then driving them on the same roads as my friends, family and children. Even well made but heavily modified fourbies can be potential death traps for other road users. Do you really want to go down the road of third world countries that have extraordinary road tolls because of the piles of shyte that are on the roads?

If you really need to run heavily modified rig either trailer queen it or pay the bux to an engineer to make sure you don't kill someone.

rockcrawler31 wrote:At the end of the day we have registration rules, ADR's, and engineering standards so that we don't have some farkwit bootyfabbing totally unsafe piles of crap and then driving them on the same roads as my friends, family and children. Even well made but heavily modified fourbies can be potential death traps for other road users. Do you really want to go down the road of third world countries that have extraordinary road tolls because of the piles of shyte that are on the roads?

If you really need to run heavily modified rig either trailer queen it or pay the bux to an engineer to make sure you don't kill someone.

umm.....adr's and stuff dont stop people. how many non-engineered, unroadworthy vehicles are on the road now?......bucket loads and its been happinin for years. if there is some discussion of rec or club reg maybe make it mandatory for and engineers report to recieve such benefits. might give some people a kick in the arse....umm insentive i mean.

i agree. there ARE a lot of piles of crap on the road. These are still illegal and always have been. So are you saying that because someone else is running an illegal dangerous pile of crap you should be allowed to as well?

if the club rec allows you to drive a big modded truck on the road as long as you have and engineers cert, then why not just get the damned cert and have normal rego.

ummm....no....i'm legal. and i'm sure club reg and rec reg might be alot cheaper, hence the insentive to do stuff right.

so what kind of money are we really talking here? I mean, if your car is legal, is it really worth saving that cash to have all sorts of limitations placed on where and when and how far you can drive?

If you were a pensioner then i might understand it. But by the sounds of it you're not. I can understand a hot rodder or street machiner being happy to only do a couple of thousand kays a year, but what happens when you want to drive up to queensland or new south wales for a comp or event etc.?

If i've misunderstood your motives i'm sorry, but every time i've heard this club/limited rego conversation come up its been by folks trying to circumvent important safety regulations.

and here's the kicker

Let's face it. once your state government works out that they are losing bulk taxes/rego money, how long before they shut the whole idea down. End result - everyone loses.

umm...i couldn't give a shite about club reg etc, just making a suggestion. and one thing i'm not trying to do is circumvent important safety issues, hence encouraging people to have a legal vehicle......starting to get lost i am

joeblow wrote:umm...i couldn't give a shite about club reg etc, just making a suggestion. and one thing i'm not trying to do is circumvent important safety issues, hence encouraging people to have a legal vehicle......starting to get lost i am

Thats fair enough mate. From looking at your sig line i can assume that we both consider legal well engineered vehicles to be important. The same can't be said for a fair portion of the population though. Loopholes are exactly that, and they have a tendency to get closed.

rockcrawler31 wrote:If you really need to run heavily modified rig either trailer queen it or pay the bux to an engineer to make sure you don't kill someone.

Problem is there nowhere public in the bush you can go with a trailered 4b legally.... and no 4wd parks in SA, one in WA, none in NT not that it matters, none in Vic or NSW and 3 in Qld

So where do you suggest people from Vic/NSW/SA etc trailer them to?
Qld for a quick few hr wheel on a saturday arvo after taking the kids swimming?

Again, I see the best option is buying land, but whose going to pay for it?

To get any sized block of dirt worth it (500acres etc), is going to cost 100's thousands unless you go that far from civilization that nobody will go there. Even then, if its owned by a club/group, club membership will have to be pretty steep to make it work.

rockcrawler31 wrote:i agree. there ARE a lot of piles of crap on the road. These are still illegal and always have been. So are you saying that because someone else is running an illegal dangerous pile of crap you should be allowed to as well?

if the club rec allows you to drive a big modded truck on the road as long as you have and engineers cert, then why not just get the damned cert and have normal rego.

I've been a mechanic working on performance cars and 4x4's for over 15 years, the most dangerous cars I've seen are the stock ones that don't get any loving, or worse (sorry to those who can) those serviced and repaired at home or by unqualified persons. My opinion if the government were serious about safety they would regulate the automotive industry like thet do plumbers and electricians, anyone can go to the shop and buy a set of brake pads for their car, thats a 100kph weapon is ever I saw one.
My car may not be engineered but it has new bushes, shocks, tie rod end, brakes, and whatever parts it needs whenever I go away.

The engineering requirement by my understanding for a street rod is that the vehicle is safe and well built, it does not require emissions, noise, crumple and other tests.
Club vehicles need be inspected by an approved club.
I'm all for getting unsafe vehicles off the road, but don't think modified means unsafe, my vehicle goes, stops, turns and runs better than a stock car. If engineers were allowed to use common sense then my fuel injected Gen 3 wouldn't need a $2000 emissions test at Vipac just to prove it produces the same or less emmissions than a 1988 carby tb42.

Cheers

Joel

Joel

PGS 4WD wrote:

rockcrawler31 wrote:i agree. there ARE a lot of piles of crap on the road. These are still illegal and always have been. So are you saying that because someone else is running an illegal dangerous pile of crap you should be allowed to as well?

if the club rec allows you to drive a big modded truck on the road as long as you have and engineers cert, then why not just get the damned cert and have normal rego.

I've been a mechanic working on performance cars and 4x4's for over 15 years, the most dangerous cars I've seen are the stock ones that don't get any loving, or worse (sorry to those who can) those serviced and repaired at home or by unqualified persons. My opinion if the government were serious about safety they would regulate the automotive industry like thet do plumbers and electricians, anyone can go to the shop and buy a set of brake pads for their car, thats a 100kph weapon is ever I saw one.
My car may not be engineered but it has new bushes, shocks, tie rod end, brakes, and whatever parts it needs whenever I go away.

The engineering requirement by my understanding for a street rod is that the vehicle is safe and well built, it does not require emissions, noise, crumple and other tests.
Club vehicles need be inspected by an approved club.
I'm all for getting unsafe vehicles off the road, but don't think modified means unsafe, my vehicle goes, stops, turns and runs better than a stock car. If engineers were allowed to use common sense then my fuel injected Gen 3 wouldn't need a $2000 emissions test at Vipac just to prove it produces the same or less emmissions than a 1988 carby tb42.

Cheers

Joel

Joel

i understand you completely mate. I'm pretty anal about my personal car, my four wheel drive and any of my mates cars that i work on. I'm one of the home mechanics that you speak of, but i don't do any work unless i'm pretty sure it can be done by a dummy and i test drive everything before i let it go on the road.

When i built my fourby, one of the design briefs to my fabricator was that it MUST be engineerable. I have since gone and done lane change tests etc off my own back even though the engineer wasn't interested in having one done. So yes, there are some of us that like to do the right thing, but you have to admit there's a large proportion who either don't know or don't care about safe cars and build unsafe piles of crap, then wonder why vicroads/qldDOT wants to take them off the road.

I wasn't aware of the situation with VIC and NSW not having anywhere to wheel an unregistered vehicle, and i wasn't aware of the costs involved in engineering in victoria. I guess that's something that you need to address down there. Engineering mine up here cost 500 bucks and i have a list of modification codes as long as my arm. The engineer simply looked over the car and was able to make his own decisions whether some thing was legal or needed upgrading.

I.E. he decided that i needed clearance lights on the back of the car since my main lights cluster was too close together, but he also decided that the stock main brake booster from a 75series (15/16" master cylinder) was good enough to run the brakes from a 80series diff.

Before you all go and try to get club rego and insurance, perhaps you should wait to see what happens with NCAP.

PGS 4WD wrote: My opinion if the government were serious about safety they would regulate the automotive industry like thet do plumbers and electricians, anyone can go to the shop and buy a set of brake pads for their car, thats a 100kph weapon is ever I saw one.

I can go buy a power point and a gas bottle from the shop too. So I dont see your point at all.

[quote="PGS 4WD"]
My opinion if the government were serious about safety they would regulate the automotive industry like thet do plumbers and electricians, anyone can go to the shop and buy a set of brake pads for their car, thats a 100kph weapon is ever I saw one.


writen by a man that can see a decent price rise and more work coming his way if this were to happen and (backyard) people couldn't do thier own work.

anyone see how much plumbers and sparkies rates went up after you needed that certificate??

I agree certain people sould not touch thier own vehicles.I dont however think we need more restrictions on an already heavily regulated industry.

Shadow wrote:

PGS 4WD wrote: My opinion if the government were serious about safety they would regulate the automotive industry like thet do plumbers and electricians, anyone can go to the shop and buy a set of brake pads for their car, thats a 100kph weapon is ever I saw one.

I can go buy a power point and a gas bottle from the shop too. So I dont see your point at all.

X2

Shadow wrote:

PGS 4WD wrote: My opinion if the government were serious about safety they would regulate the automotive industry like thet do plumbers and electricians, anyone can go to the shop and buy a set of brake pads for their car, thats a 100kph weapon is ever I saw one.

I can go buy a power point and a gas bottle from the shop too. So I dont see your point at all.

Yes but if you fit it your insurance wont cover you. Ask any builder, plumber or electrician what their biggest expense is, it'll be insurance. They make an effort in Victoria anyway to have us use registered trades people when it comes to plumbers, electricaian and builders. Since the HIH insurance fiacso. The personal risk is equal or greater with a car and I believe theh same rules should apply.


Joel