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drop shackles
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:33 pm
by ajsr
hey all
any one done drop shackles on a spring over using zook springs ie no ruf
how did it work?
any better suggestions?
can see my beast in show zooks flex tread if it helps
cheers andrew
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:45 pm
by mnemonix
I've got them front and rear.
And will be removing them as soon as I get the opportunity.
I believe it's just my setup, but they do nothing positive for the vehicles performance.
Any extra articulation they provide is only for show, as there is no downforce applied.
Then also make the vehicle feel unstable on sideslopes as the shackles open and close.
Also, the model I am using gives a terrible shackle angle when pinned for road use, and they're very harsh.
Tried it, didn't like it, and they'll be in the reject pile as soon as I decide which direction I'm going in suspension wise.
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:37 pm
by joeblow
check out the flex thread and look at kennys lj80.
Re: drop shackles
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:49 pm
by grimbo
ajsr wrote:hey all
any one done drop shackles on a spring over using zook springs ie no ruf
how did it work?
any better suggestions?
can see my beast in show zooks flex tread if it helps
cheers andrew
cmon please do a search these things get discussed every couple of months. They are crap ways to get some goofy flex for the travel ramp. But some people also get good results when they actully incorpoarte them into a well thought out and well designed, complete suspension package.
Why do you think you want them?
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:27 pm
by ajsr
im not trying to be lazy grimbo im tring to get peoples toughts on them.
i was considering them to try and improve my zooks off road suspension in all areas i dont drive it on the road.
im open to any sensible thoughts
ramps dont really interest me
as I said you can see my current set up in the zook flex thread
thanks joe your mates 4by looks the goods but I see your putting coils in it
whats the reasoning there?comfort,flex,more stable??
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:11 pm
by joeblow
kens truck rides ace and is stable. those shackles were only designed to use the 50mm left in the shock at full spring flex. we are building new custom zook diffs for his rig next year that will be about another 200mm wider because we want to go to a more readilly available axle. and while we are there we thought it would be a good idea to do coils( we say that now!). should ride similar to what it does now though.
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:27 pm
by ajsr
lol
yeah they always sound like good ideas at the time
is there any way i can see this truck in the flesh joe as it is now?
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:40 pm
by joeblow
doin an auszookers tech night in a couple of weeks at my joint. lots of nice zooks will be there. will pm you the details soon.
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:32 am
by GRPABT1
ajsr wrote:im not trying to be lazy grimbo im tring to get peoples toughts on them.
Peoples thoughts on them have been discussed a million times, I'm with Grimbo on this one. Search "wacky shackles" if drop shackles is not showing many results.
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:16 pm
by get it up there
im running zook springs in the front, (although there not standard), with drop shackles. I've taken a few springs out, and opened the clamps up. Im running lux springs in the rear, with drop shackles also, and i have more articulation in the front.
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:17 pm
by get it up there
get it up there wrote:im running zook springs in the front, (although there not standard), with drop shackles. I've taken a few springs out, and opened the clamps up. Im running lux springs in the rear, with drop shackles also, and i have a bit more articulation in the front.
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:22 pm
by lump_a_charcoal
Even though there is not much weight applied to the dropped wheel, wouldn't it give a bit more stability as opposed to lifting one wheel?
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:08 pm
by get it up there
hmmm, not sure why that post came up twice?!?!
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:34 pm
by Gwagensteve
No, general consensus is they make the car more unstable.
Generally, this is because they result in "uncontrolled" travel - i.e the wheels can just flop.
Effectively, that means that even if the wheels are on the ground, the body can still flop about as the shackle can open and close. This is a big problem under power, where the car can get all floppy and unpredictable.
That's why they have the reputation for being only for posing on ramps - they don't work well in the real world once you introduce inertia and drive load.
Careful placement of bumpstops, flat springs, well placed and adequate shock valving etc can all add stability to a car with drop shackles, but really, the whole suspension needs to be built to run them- limited compression travel, stiff shocks, good control over axle wrap etc- and by that time you might as well have built the suspension with enough travel to do the job you wanted anyway.
A low, stable car with limited suspension travel will always be better to drive than a taller, floppy car with lots of loose travel.
like I say.... low is the new lift and bumpstops are the new flex
Steve.
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:53 pm
by zook4fun
every thought about doing a buggy leaf set up. it wont be so floppy but will still flex.
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:37 pm
by ajsr
zook4fun wrote:every thought about doing a buggy leaf set up. it wont be so floppy but will still flex.
whats buggy leaf?
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:56 pm
by lump_a_charcoal
like () but horizontal...
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:10 pm
by alien
search 3/4 elliptic.... basically you run half a leaf along the chassis and the eye of that leaf meets the shackle of the full length lower leaves... they work well, but hard to get right.
im suprised no one here has questioned why a SPOA zuk needs only the 50mm or so droop the missing links will give...
you could probably gain that by tweaking the bumpstops.
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:37 pm
by ajsr
yeah some good ideas guys keep them coming
the drop shackles are only an idea of how to possibly inprove my zook
its really pretty good as it is but im thinking it could be better
open to all sane ideas
cheers andrew
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:20 pm
by lump_a_charcoal
alien wrote:search 3/4 elliptic.... basically you run half a leaf along the chassis and the eye of that leaf meets the shackle of the full length lower leaves... they work well, but hard to get right.
im suprised no one here has questioned why a SPOA zuk needs only the 50mm or so droop the missing links will give...
you could probably gain that by tweaking the bumpstops.
Buggy leaf is when you use a full leaf, not just half - Just like my diagram.
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:55 pm
by ajsr
anyone got a pic of this buggy leaf or 3/4 eliptical?
got me curious now
sort of going off the drop shackle idea i think
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:17 pm
by VR Rodeo
ajsr wrote:anyone got a pic of this buggy leaf or 3/4 eliptical?
got me curious now
sort of going off the drop shackle idea i think
http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/index.php/topic,55772.0.html
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:40 am
by alien
do you have a build thread or some pics and a list of what you've done to it and the terrain you're driving and what you hope to achieve? perhaps thats a better start to people suggesting how you improve it?
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:06 am
by grimbo
ajsr wrote:anyone got a pic of this buggy leaf or 3/4 eliptical?
got me curious now
sort of going off the drop shackle idea i think
well having a quick look in the Siera Bible thread there is this link
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php?t=43962
pays to have abit of a look through there, lots of good info.
Also as Alien said how about explaining a bit more about you, your vehicle, your terrain and what are the shortcomings of your current setup
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:57 pm
by GRPABT1
I'm doing a 3/4 elliptic setup ATM, waiting on my new boss shocks to complete it. They work alot better than drop shackles and are cheaper to boot. I copied the setup in the link above with a few changes after reccomendations from the guys off here. I was only after a little more flex in the back to match the front for stability and hence I can tune my flex by moving the elliptic spring clamps. If I remove my shocks I can have so much droop the thing falls over before lifting a wheel if I desire.
these are some pics, all pinned still with shocks severely limiting travel. Still gotta move the axle back, fit new shock in front of axle layed over and some tweaks.
Will post pics of completed setup when it's done.
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:20 pm
by 11_evl
your diff needs to go back about 12" to look any good IMO. it just looks wrong and out of proportion. plus it would be soo easy to do
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:44 pm
by ajsr
alien wrote:do you have a build thread or some pics and a list of what you've done to it and the terrain you're driving and what you hope to achieve? perhaps thats a better start to people suggesting how you improve it?
you can see my zook in the show flex thread
all I use the zook for is failry nasty bush work mostly mud and deep ruts
85 high roofline drover
its a spoa that had 2" raised rancho springs now flat
long ext shocks
tail shaft spacers ext brake lines
ext shackels in rear only
wide track diffs with custom super large offset rims
lockrights front and rear
32 mongrels
6.5 crawlers
dont really think it has any major drawbacks im just thinking maybe I could make it better
Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:21 am
by GRPABT1
11_evl wrote:your diff needs to go back about 12" to look any good IMO. it just looks wrong and out of proportion. plus it would be soo easy to do
It's my daily not a comp rig. And the pic at droop makes it look worse.
Here is a better pic
Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:49 am
by VR Rodeo
GRPABT1 wrote:11_evl wrote:your diff needs to go back about 12" to look any good IMO. it just looks wrong and out of proportion. plus it would be soo easy to do
It's my daily not a comp rig. And the pic at droop makes it look worse.
Here is a better pic
I think it's got something to do with the length of the tray and wheel arch thats makes it look out of proportion, it looks like it's right up the front and not centred, but we are getting off topic
