Outer Limits 4x4 Board

having trouble with the auto hubs, they lock fine in high range but not in low.
sometimes i can get them to lock by putting pressure on the gear stick. there is no flashing light problem. the 4x4 light is random as to weather it works or not.
i often get the check engine light come on when wheeling, i had the codes read and they they just said "4wd system"
it may be unrelated but i also have a vibration in the front of the car it is so bad that i cant drive over 120kph it is really starting to shit me.
99 challenger ome suspension 31" mtr's snorkel
any ideas
i would love to throw all the crap away and put manual hubs on.
shep

The Challenger doesn't have auto hubs - it has a disconnect on the rhs of the front diff, which disconnects the front right wheel from the diff.

Whether the lights are on shouldn't make any difference to whether you're actually in 4wd - have you experienced different?

The disconnect is vacuum operated - it requires engine vacuum to keep the axle disconnected. If you have a vacuum leak there may not be enough engine vacuum at 120km/h to keep the disconnect out - which would make a horrible noise which could sound like a vibration.

I think somebody needs to crawl under the vehicle and start checking vacuum hoses and fittings for leaks.

BTW, you probably can fit manual hubs - pickle will know, we've just got to wait for him to drop in.

with the vibration, i have removed the drive plates from the hub and gone for a drive and there was no difference. the vibration is bad enough to blur the mirrors. and over 130kph it gets very bad. i got bogged last week, and the front diff was only engaging when the gear stick had pressure on it. let the stick go and it would disconnect the front diff.

First I would be checking engine mounts and gearbox mounts. Might explain the vibration and having to put pressure on the gearstick.
Secondly check all the driveline for mud ...more so inside your rims.
If you like to play in mud you will probably find that is 90% of the cause of your problems. Including the dodgy actuator!
Fix it up and forget about the Aisin hubs. Getting out of the vehicle to put hubs in has got hairs on it. Leave that to the Toyota and Nissan dudes.
Dave

i have been chasing the vibration for a while and have tried
3 new sets of tires
2 sets of rims
new uni joints
at least 10 lots of wheel balancing
wheel bearings checked by both me and a mitsi dealer
replaced steering idler arm
removed front drive plates

the actuator works fine, just not in low range.
the vibration has been a problem for a few years but the 4x4 stuff is new.
the car is my wife's daily driver.

i will check the mounts in the morning but i am sure they will be fine.

sheps wrote:the actuator works fine, just not in low range.
the vibration has been a problem for a few years but the 4x4 stuff is new.

Which suggests the problem has something to do with the transfer case switch which tells the ECU that low range has been selected. Perhaps the ECU thinks the transfer is in neutral? (Does your transfer have a neutral? Do you have auto or manual gearbox?)

Two things you could try, neither of them simple.

Remove, clean, reassemble and test ALL the switches on the top of the transfer case, and the switch on the front disconnect.

Manual hubs would allow you to isolate the front drivetrain completely. If the problem stays, it's wheels/suspension/steering. If it disappears while hubs are unlocked, comes back while hubs are locked, it's front drivetrain. Not a particularly practical solution if you don't want free wheeling hubs.

I just had my centre bearing and tailshaft joint fixed, also tail shaft balanced.

Before fixing them the vibration over 90 -100km/h's was so bad I had to re-adjust my mirrors.

All good now.

engine and gearbox mounts are fine
one piece tail shaft no center bearing
vibration has to be steering or wheels as i have driven it without drive plates
are goodyear mtr's hard to balance?
any other ideas.
cheers
shep

sheps wrote:are goodyear mtr's hard to balance?

My regular tyre place had trouble balancing mine - two stayed on the rear because they (claimed they) couldn't balance them well enough to go on the front.

I did buy them second hand (privately) so they could have been "encouraging" me to get rid of them - but I don't think the owner was like that.

had the same problem in my challenger when i first got it. h4 was fine but as soon as u selected low, no more drive to the front wheels. but if u pushed and held the stick hard in L4 it would engage, as the challenger i got had been a town car all its life i guessd the switchs on the lever were full of grim etc and prob corr. pulled out my console and the cover over the levers. cleaned up everything i could fine on the top side of the gearbox and has worked beatiful ever since.

bartlettmoto wrote:had the same problem in my challenger when i first got it. h4 was fine but as soon as u selected low, no more drive to the front wheels. but if u pushed and held the stick hard in L4 it would engage, as the challenger i got had been a town car all its life i guessd the switchs on the lever were full of grim etc and prob corr. pulled out my console and the cover over the levers. cleaned up everything i could fine on the top side of the gearbox and has worked beatiful ever since.

thanks mate i will give it a clean.

fixed the lowrange problem, cleaned the switches.
still have vibration issues. the car slowly developed a bit of a wheel wobble
so i replaced the front bearings, there was a bit of discoloration however didn't look really bad. that fixed the wheel wobble however the vibration is still there. i nipped the stearing box up a bit and no difference.
had the wheels balanced by another two tyre shops, still no difference.


is there supposed to be a thrust washer between the bearing nut and bearing and does this bearing nut look ok.

i just did the wheel bearings in my pajero 93 model and that nut u
took a photo of looks like mine i thought it had been rubbing on something aswell but they all look like that so i got told,and with your wobble u possibly have a bent axle a a very hard problem to find but ive had all your problems aswell and thats what it appeared to be .
cheers ross

pom300 wrote:i just did the wheel bearings in my pajero 93 model and that nut u
took a photo of looks like mine i thought it had been rubbing on something aswell but they all look like that so i got told,and with your wobble u possibly have a bent axle a a very hard problem to find but ive had all your problems aswell and thats what it appeared to be .
cheers ross

the wheel bearing replacement fixed the wobble. the bearing was just worn out. thanks for the info about the bearing nut.
the vibration is more like a buzz(if that makes any sense) that i start to feel at around 110 or 115 and by 120 is blurring the mirrors and by 140 feels like the car is going to disintegrate.

have u tried top /bottom ball joints. or a on car wheel balance. thats what mine was

chatto wrote:have u tried top /bottom ball joints. or a on car wheel balance. thats what mine was

i have not heard of anyone doing on car wheel balance's, i am going to Darwin on Monday so i will ask around. ball joints appear to be fine or at least i am unable to get any movement when i swing off them with a tyre leaver.

i am starting to think that the vibration is from excessive movement
in the gear box slip joint. it is a 5speed manual is the tail shaft
supported by a bearing or will i be up for a new rear housing?
if it is a bushed housing where would i be likely to find one?

A bit way out, but in view of the responses so far, maybe not so far away???

I had a problem with my Pajero - vibration,particularly on a smooth road and over 90 km/H. It was more noticeable when it everything was warmed up - after 100 km. I thought it was a tailshaft. It turned out that it was a tyre. I had been given a half worn tyre and when I had other tyre trouble, fitted it to the rim and then went for a 2000 km trip to visit my daughter. It wasn't too bad, although I did notice the vibration on the way up, but the trip home was a different route (2500 km) which included a lot of freeway driving and it growled! At that time, the other tyres were looking a bit sad, so I bought a new set of 4 and the vibration disappeared.

Similar problem with my wife's Magna - I had a set of Michelins (VR rated) on and they were growling. Eventually I noticed that they were wearing unevenly - in patches rather than by misalignment. I took the car back to the tyre place and although they didn't say the tyres were faulty (only 2 out of the 4) they replaced all tyres with pro rata credit for the use they had already given me.

So have a close look at your tyres and see if they are wearing unevely. Misalignment can cause some noises, but generally it has to be really bad to do this. Look for locally worn patches - as if they were out of balance. It probablyt isn't this, but who knows - you haven't had much success lately.

Bent rear axle or housing?

you say its really bad at 120. is it a constant vib or does it come and go as you accelerate or coast along?

the vib starts at about 80 but i am still able to cruse at 110 however
120 and the car feels like it is going to self destruct. it isn't tyres or rims and not bent diff housings.
there is a lot of play in the gearbox slipjoint, enough that it will knock
when wobbling the tailshaft. something i havent mentioned is i blow
the transfer side mount often, also i have had the front
gearbox mount bolts fall out.
there is no change to the vibration if i am coasting , powering on or slowing down.
i like this car , i did 800ks in it today but it is starting to become a bit
unsafe when i comes to overtaking roadtrains. and having to cruse 20kph under the speed limit pisses me.

i have just taken the MTRs off the car, they have done 55000 ks and have worn evenly. the MTRs replaced a set of tyres that i hoped might be the cause of the vibe.
good thing though now that i have dueler ATs on the car i don't need ear plugs for the noise.

crawled under the car today with a dial guage
8mm runout halfway along the tailshaft. .
all the movement traces back to the extension housing/tailshaft slop
and as there is no bearing i am up for a new extension housing.
new housing will be here next week. so hopefully will fix the vibration.

glad to see you coming up with somthing, hope it does sort it for you, but sounds like its the only thing on there left to change, so it better aye!

good luck

if it doesn't fix it i am gunna turn it into a smoking heap
and buy a new triton.

i pulled the tailshaft out yesterday to fit the new ext housing and found
a very dead uni at the gearbox end. i paid a mitsi dealer to replace
this recently and they must have squashed a roller. as a result of the
dealer not doing the work properly it has cost me another uni and a gearbox extension
housing. as well as at least 5 grand chasing a problem that no one could diagnose properly.
very pissed off with the mitsi dealer network at the moment.

did a quick trip to darwin and back on friday. the new extension housing
and uni's are as smooth as. first time for years that i have been able to
cruse at 130kph and go up to 170kph while overtaking.

in case people are chasing a similar vibration in a 5 speed with one piece tailshaft. the bush in the new housing
is 39.6mm and mine had worn to 42.3mm which gave the tailshaft
over 10mm deflection when measured with a dial gauge in the middle of the shaft.