Outer Limits 4x4 Board

hey guys i know you all prob think u have heard this a million times but i went thru all the search fields and none of them really match at all.

i have a 350 chev in my patrol and its got the big diesel mq radiator which is new and i am running a fan shroud and a direct drive engine fan.

the car is fine while driving sits on 170 Fahrenheit on the autometer gauge which the sender is installed in the manifold but if u leave it sitting there idling the temp will come up and sit at 210 Fahrenheit looking to climb.

do u think the radiator is not big enough??

the engine is just a mild thing. eagle spares crate motor 290hp that has only done 2,000kms.

i was thinking its either the radiator is to small or mayb there is a head gasket problem??

the car has a high flow water pump and a new thermostat!.

the thermostat is a 160 also!.

any suggestions or ppl with experience with these setups any info would be greatly appreciated!.

mate, you need to install thermo fans then, all of your bases are covered, but when at idle, there is no airflow into the radiator, at least not enough of it, so a set of thermo fans that will run at full spin even at idle will probably help.

The Standard 10 blade chev clutch fan, i neva had any dramas

how high flow is the water pump? at idle it may be flowing too much and not letting the coolant sit in the radiator long enough to actually cool down, something worth looking into...

mikesmith wrote:hey guys i know you all prob think u have heard this a million times but i went thru all the search fields and none of them really match at all.

i have a 350 chev in my patrol and its got the big diesel mq radiator which is new and i am running a fan shroud and a direct drive engine fan.

the car is fine while driving sits on 170 Fahrenheit on the autometer gauge which the sender is installed in the manifold but if u leave it sitting there idling the temp will come up and sit at 210 Fahrenheit looking to climb.

do u think the radiator is not big enough??

the engine is just a mild thing. eagle spares crate motor 290hp that has only done 2,000kms.

i was thinking its either the radiator is to small or mayb there is a head gasket problem??

the car has a high flow water pump and a new thermostat!.

the thermostat is a 160 also!.

any suggestions or ppl with experience with these setups any info would be greatly appreciated!.

Ive got a 330 Hp Vortec 350 in my GQ and el thermo fans and its fine all the time,air con ,towing whatever.

Put some fans on man.

MAtt

mikesmith wrote: hey guys i know you all prob think u have heard this a million times but i went thru all the search fields and none of them really match at all.

i have a 350 chev in my patrol and its got the big diesel mq radiator which is new and i am running a fan shroud and a direct drive engine fan.

Good setup ...... once you install thermo fans !

mikesmith wrote:the car is fine while driving sits on 170 Fahrenheit on the autometer gauge which the sender is installed in the manifold but if u leave it sitting there idling the temp will come up and sit at 210 Fahrenheit looking to climb.

Chevs dont like being left at idle for long periods
Solution = turn it off

mikesmith wrote:do u think the radiator is not big enough??

Radiator size is well matched to the chev

mikesmith wrote:the engine is just a mild thing. eagle spares crate motor 290hp that has only done 2,000kms.

Hope you flushed out the motor before installing it
Rust scale tends to fall free from the block and sit in the water galleries during long periods without water in them...... IE: shipping !
If you didnt flush then this scale tends to end up in the radiator cores or incomming tank.

mikesmith wrote:i was thinking its either the radiator is to small or maybe there is a head gasket problem??

Bubbles in the water when at normal opperating temp ?

mikesmith wrote:the car has a high flow water pump and a new thermostat!.

the thermostat is a 160 also!.

any suggestions or ppl with experience with these setups any info would be greatly appreciated!.

What brand is the "new thermostat"...... I have a whole box of non- working thermostats that are new but never opened or closed at the correct temp requirements.

Cheap thermostats are like a drunk ugly women........
Easy to do, but you know you'll regret it later

had a set of thermos on it and it got warm they could not keep it cool!.

i dont have room at the front the fit twin el's or a clutch fan!.

the high flow water pump is not massively high flow its based on the standard chev item!.

the thermostat is a miloden one so not cheap shit.

no the water is not really bubbling.

may be a flow issue due to the twin gas convertors??

starting to piss me off tho!.

how do the chevs go crawling then get warm??

mikesmith wrote: had a set of thermos on it and it got warm they could not keep it cool!.

I'm not a fan of the twin thermo setup, never had any real success with em at all. I have however found that the 16" single fan unit (DavisCraig) works a treat !

mikesmith wrote: i dont have room at the front the fit twin el's or a clutch fan!.

I didnt either !, I slotted my 16" fan between the direct drive engine fan and the radiator..... damn tight squeeze !

mikesmith wrote:the high flow water pump is not massively high flow its based on the standard chev item!.

have you altered the drive pulley ratios at all ?

mikesmith wrote:the thermostat is a miloden one so not cheap shit.

mikesmith wrote:no the water is not really bubbling.

Its either bubbling or its not

mikesmith wrote:may be a flow issue due to the twin gas convertors??

Shouldnt have any effect.

mikesmith wrote:starting to piss me off tho!.

how do the chevs go crawling then get warm??

I've never had an issue in the past with low speed heavy work.....


Might be time to post up some pics of your setup

Kingy

i checked the heads out or should i say the cooling system with a teekay head check kit and it came up clear!.

the pulleys are all factory chev items!.

i am thinking about putting a thermo on a temp switch on the front pushing air through??

i have not done any low speed work yet am a bit scared and want to try and sort all this out before i take it out 4wding.

the car has only just been finished.

pics of the setup has been added! and yes it still need a little tidy up i am trying to sort the bugs then clean it up!.

ok try this check.

remove the front grill exposing the front of the rasdiator. run the engine around 1000 rpm. hold up a small hand towel in front of the radiator (the ones about 500x300mm) from about 15 inches away start bringing the towel closer the the front of the radiator slowly. take note on how much the air flow affects the towel, if you can put the towel within 6 inches of the radiator befor the suction starts to draw it in to the radiator, your fan is not drawing enough air. the towel should start to flutter from around 12 inches away and get more severe as you get closer.

a lack of airflow in the radiator can be due to blade angles and the distance the baldes penetrate into the shroud. in your case it looks like the baldes are almost touching the radiator and the entire blade is inside the shroud, only the first bit of each blade should be inside the shroud so that were the angled/bent bits are should be in line with the engine side of the shroud.

whats the temp difference between the top radiator hose and the bottom one

Getting hot at idle (but cool while driving) generally indicates not enough airflow through the radiator.

Looks to me like the design of the shroud could be the problem. The blades of the fan shouldn't go past the "lip" that immediately surrounds the fan(if that makes sense). The blades look like they will be pushing the air around the fan as opposed to sucking it through it. I had a similar problem with my V8 hilux but a decent shroud fixed it.

The shroud should sit pretty close to the radiator and the round bit that surrounds the fan should be longer, with only a small amount of the fan not covered.

In the pic, A should be about 10-20mm and B should make up the rest of the length.

hey if i was you i would chuck the fan in the bin & get a set of EF-EL thermo fans & bolt them on, im using that set up on my GQ running a warm 454 & hasnt went over half road or bush,
also my brothers got a warm 350 in a FJ55 he had the same problem with the standard fan, after he put the thermos on its been fine since...
should get a set from a wrecker for around $50 bucks,
hope this helps mate,,, jess

hmm not wat i wanted to hear!!

alrite i will have a look getting a new shroud made.

i would take the spacer off but then the fan will hit the power steering pump!!

cant win with this!!

there is not enough room to fit the el fans between the engine and the radiator and still be able to take the belts on and off!!

hi mikesmith did i see that gas rsearch stuff on ebay a few months back? I was looking at getting them too, but ended up getting another set thats pretty much the same, cant wait till the 350 is in my gq (gettin done this week.)

And gq351, i have bought an AU XR8 alloy thermo with the twin thermos, will this be cool enuf?

mikesmith wrote: i would take the spacer off but then the fan will hit the power steering pump!!

Take it off ..... take it to someone with a lathe and get it machined back to a size that works for you.
Alternatively...... hit the wreckers and SEARCH for a replacement thats shorter.... there's 6 or 7 differant lengths to choose from.

p/s I machined mine down

mikesmith wrote: there is not enough room to fit the el fans between the engine and the radiator and still be able to take the belts on and off!!

It will once you machine that spacer off !

As I said ...... my 16" daviscraig lives between the radiator and the engine fan.
The thermo fan motor lives almost inside the engine fan, with about 12mm clearance, & yes I have to remove the radiator to change the belts !

But mine dont get hot

mikesmith wrote:hmm not wat i wanted to hear!!

alrite i will have a look getting a new shroud made.

i would take the spacer off but then the fan will hit the power steering pump!!

cant win with this!!

there is not enough room to fit the el fans between the engine and the radiator and still be able to take the belts on and off!!

MAte if youve got enough room for a shroud and fan spacer then you will have enough room for el fan setup.

Total depth is 85mm.

Matt

mate i have 2 sets so of the el fans sitting here!! and i had to cut bracing out of it to make it even fit in between them.

i would like access to getting the belts on and off without having to pull the radiator out!!.

the fan spacer is only long enough to clear the power steering pump

mikesmith wrote:mate i have 2 sets so of the el fans sitting here!! and i had to cut bracing out of it to make it even fit in between them.

i would like access to getting the belts on and off without having to pull the radiator out!!.

the fan spacer is only long enough to clear the power steering pump

Ok so the fan spacer was hitting on the el fan cowling????

If this is the case when you dont have a fan why cant you take the spacer out.

This is all assuming that it was the spacer fouling and all the rest clears ok.

What power steering pump do you have on there,if you fit the chev tear drop one they are right up hard against the engine giving heaps of clearance.

MAtt

na mate this was with no fan and the pulley bolted straight to the water pump!!!

as i said the fan spacer is only about and inch long and its to space the fan away from the water pump!!!

is a factory chev power steering pump also!!

twin rib pulley so i can run ac to

mikesmith wrote:na mate this was with no fan and the pulley bolted straight to the water pump!!!

as i said the fan spacer is only about and inch long and its to space the fan away from the water pump!!!

+

What power steering pump is on there.

MAtt

factory brackets saginaw pump i am pretty sure

hey mike smith, i didnt have enough room running the big block so i cut into the el fan shroud a little so now the water pump pulley sits into the shroud, it seems to work & i can still change all the belts without touching anything else... im not sure how to send pics but if u give me your e-mail ill send some though so you can get a rough idea.


& maccas mq, yeah the au thermos should be fine, i think they are a touch smaller but should easily do the job
jess

i have to cut a fair amount out of the el theroms and the pulley sits rite in amongst the fans!!

there is no chance of doing a belt with them in!!.

just makes it a pain to do maintenance on it all!. if i make the fan shroud smaller and put a fan on the front of the radiator do u think that will get me past??

me dad has a 350 in the fj45 goes beuatiful now but when we first were driving the thing overheated chucked thermo's on and it fixed it a bit and then we went high country and it heated like crazy so bonnet went off for most of the trip and it was great so we put a wrx bonnet scoop backwards right on top of the raidator where the fans are also and works just as good

Your water pump to radiator clearance problems is because it runs a long`style water pump which sits out off the block to suit the pullys

Not much you can do without spending coin

yeah i know what u mean mike, i can just fit a fanbelt berween the pulley & the thermos with abit of effort,

but i think ''stool'' is right coz i have herd of chevs having long & short water pumps, just not sure how much clearence it would give you if you changed it over

i know this sounds like abit of an effort but just an idea, you could cut into the radiator support & mount your radiator foward 1'' - 1.5'' inches without cutting out anything major,
just an idea i done that with mine to fit a big 3 core small truck raditor to over come the same clearence problem...

or a clutch fan might work better if you can fit it in there,

yeh changing to a short pump now would cost me a fortune!!

would have to change the brackets for everything!!

yeh thought about sinking the radiator into the rad support. but do u think just a set of el\au thermos would keep it cooler than say a engine fan and a thermo on the front of the radiator??

i am going to get the fan shroud modified to be smaller so the fan does drag more air thru.

Mike those plastic fans aren't much chop, get a factory clutch fan with steel blades. Also..have you had the Gasresearch tuned correctly? I've worked with Gasresearch and gas for over 10 years, if the tune is wrong, too lean or rich or incorrect timing will all lead to hot running. EL fans are great but they don't always fit so easily, it should be able to stay cool so long as the pulley sizes are standard and the water pump and fan speeds are standard.

Joel