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Oil Filtering / Kleenoil
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:18 pm
by poppywhite
Has anyone had any experience with these?
Toyota 1hz 5000K between oil changes for what mostly appears to be carbon contamination.
I think the advertised 10x oil life(50,000k) is unrealistic maybe 4x(20,000k) providing other things are ok like no leaking injectors
Filters are a lot less$$ than oil (tight arse me)
Some earlier 2h had a centrifuge to spin out carbon did this work if so can it be changed over or adapted. Or is this false economy
What are your thoughts and experiences
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:46 pm
by ISUZUROVER
A centrifuge is a much better option than a filter.
The Land Rover TD5 engines have one you could possibly adapt. Or if you want a new generic one, they are made by MANN AND HUMMEL.
MANN AND HUMMEL AUSTRALIA (PTY) LTD
40/8 Avenue of the Americas
Newington Technology Park
Newington NSW 2127
+61 2 9647 1700
+61 2 9647 1936
sales@mann-hummel.com.au
I don't think you can buy direct, but they could give you the details of a retailler nearby.
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:39 pm
by zagan
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:38 am
by poppywhite
Thanks , I had a look at the Mann-Hemmmell web site
I will ask at local engineering shop when I'm in town next.
My question still stands about real value?
Do the spinnners really make a difference?
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:12 pm
by ISUZUROVER
poppywhite wrote:Thanks , I had a look at the Mann-Hemmmell web site
I will ask at local engineering shop when I'm in town next.
My question still stands about real value?
Do the spinnners really make a difference?
Short answer is YES
Full flow filters only remove the rocks (50% of 30 micron particles and maybe increasing to 100% at 80 micron, etc).
Centrifuges can even remove soot (0.030 micron!!!). All heavy/industrial diesels have bypass centrifuges or filters these days.
Someone on a landy forum was just saying they traded their TD5 (with centrifuge) for the new PUMA engined defender (transit engine - with no centrifuge). They were asking why the oil had a lot more soot than their TD5.
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:51 am
by poppywhite
Short answer is YES
Full flow filters only remove the rocks (50% of 30 micron particles and maybe increasing to 100% at 80 micron, etc).
Centrifuges can even remove soot (0.030 micron!!!). All heavy/industrial diesels have bypass centrifuges or filters these days.
Thanks Ben, Thats the bit I was after
I will make some more serious inquiries now.
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:56 am
by ferrit
one thing to be aware of with the japper diesels is as well as high soot contamination, they also acidify their acid a lot faster than euro or yank diesels too.
thats why you hear everyone carrying on about CJ-X and delo 400 oils- you need an oil with a big calcium detergent load to cope with the amount of acid produced by these diesels.
You might have CLEAN oil at 20,000kms, but it might have a pH of 2 and be eating your bearings at 20,000kms.
Go past 10,000kms with lots of caution and regular oil analysis!
And in the end, it costs $9000 to fully rebuild a 1HZ, thats a lot of 5000km oil changes!
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:29 pm
by poppywhite
ferrit wrote:one thing to be aware of with the japper diesels is as well as high soot contamination, they also acidify their acid a lot faster than euro or yank diesels too.
thats why you hear everyone carrying on about CJ-X and delo 400 oils- you need an oil with a big calcium detergent load to cope with the amount of acid produced by these diesels.
You might have CLEAN oil at 20,000kms, but it might have a pH of 2 and be eating your bearings at 20,000kms.
Go past 10,000kms with lots of caution and regular oil analysis!
And in the end, it costs $9000 to fully rebuild a 1HZ, thats a lot of 5000km oil changes!
Thanks ferrit
I havn't done anything at this point and asking is the way to get some info
Thats why were all here
Been using rimula x for > calcium same as dello. 10,000K is a lot more than 5000K so if a little sooty carbon removal is effective and affordable than ok . If not than I agree 5000K oil changes are cheep compard to rebuild or wreaker replacement. 10l of oil @$60 ads up quick to. My question of false economy.
Manufacturers make our vehicles to a price thats why so many aftermarket addons
some good, some should just be done at assembly. and some personal preference
Why more acid in jap diesel?? same compression fuel/air and bang!
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:28 pm
by zagan
ferrit wrote:one thing to be aware of with the japper diesels is as well as high soot contamination, they also acidify their acid a lot faster than euro or yank diesels too.
You sure?
My 1991 Nissan TD27 only needs CD-4 specs.
Delo 400 is CJ-4 spec and is made for motors 2007 and older.
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:49 am
by ferrit
yeah, its come out in recent years that the jap diesels due to their designs burn hotter and produce more acidic blowby than other diesels. If you use a diesel that has a low calcium, but high moly detergent, it will eat the moly up very quickly and then acidify your oil.
Remember- your manufacturer only wants your engine to last 1km past warranty so you buy a new one off them
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:54 am
by Yom
ferrit wrote:yeah, its come out in recent years that the jap diesels due to their designs burn hotter and produce more acidic blowby than other diesels. If you use a diesel that has a low calcium, but high moly detergent, it will eat the moly up very quickly and then acidify your oil.
Remember- your manufacturer only wants your engine to last 1km past warranty so you buy a new one off them
theyre all taking a page from nissan's book and designing ZD30's.
Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:02 pm
by me3@neuralfibre.com
Lots of rumours on oil.
I do analysis - saves the debate for my 1HZ
www.neuralfibre.com/paul - search for oil analysis.
Paul
Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:26 pm
by ISUZUROVER
ferrit wrote:yeah, its come out in recent years that the jap diesels due to their designs burn hotter and produce more acidic blowby than other diesels.
I don't see how this can be true. "Acid" is produced from sulphur in the fuel. Diesel sold in Australia must be <500ppm sulphur these days AFAIK. The 50ppm standard can't be far off (or may already be here).
Sulphur in the fuel will become SO2 or SO3 when burnt. Shouldn't be any variation with combustion temperature, and I can't see Japanese diesels burning hotter, as it would affect engine longevity.
Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:13 pm
by ferrit
a hotter burn thats still within the design limits of the engine wont affect its longevity.
Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:34 pm
by ISUZUROVER
ferrit wrote:a hotter burn thats still within the design limits of the engine wont affect its longevity.
This states that the Japanese are trying to LOWER combustion temps, rather than increase them:
Accession number;01A0151365
Title;A Study of Low Temperature Diesel Combustion System.
Author;SASAKI SHIZUO(Toyota Mot. Corp.) ITO TAKEKAZU(Toyota Mot. Corp.) GOTO MASATO(Toyota Mot. Corp.) YOSHIZAKI KOJI(Toyota Mot. Corp.)
Journal Title;Toyota Tech Rev
Journal Code:F0431A
ISSN:0916-7501
VOL.50;NO.2;PAGE.40-45(2000)
Figure&Table&Reference;FIG.8, TBL.2, REF.7
Pub. Country;Japan
Language;Japanese
Abstract;The study reported in this article was carried out for the purpose of building a full-scale after treatment system that would make it possible to clean diesel exhaust gas emission. The conventional diesel engine generates smoke, and so can be operated only with a fairly large amount of excess air in the air-fuel mixture. This lowers the exhaust temperature, making it more difficult to activate the catalyst. And because it is difficult to operate the engine with excess fuel in the air-fuel mixture, a deoxidization condition can not be created, making it difficult to use the catalyst as it is used with a gasoline engine. In the current study, a new combustion method was developed to address these problems. Under the new method, the reaction that generates the smoke is suppressed by lowering the combustion temperature, which in turn reduces the amount of excess air and raises the exhaust gas temperature, thus making it possible to run the engine with excess fuel in the mixture. As a result, the NOx storage-reduction catalyst, already in use with the direct-injection gasoline engine (D-4) and other models, can now be used with diesel engines, and the NOx content of diesel exhaust, which has been a major problem, can now be almost completely removed. (author abst.)
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:26 am
by me3@neuralfibre.com
Don;t confuse peak combustion temps with EGT's which are MUCH lower.
Here is one viewpoint -
http://www.markerink.org/WJM/HTML/80big ... s-scam.htm
very well presented, although I am not comfortable with all the conclusions.
More good info -
http://www.markerink.org/WJM/HTML/THE-E ... ON-OIL.doc
Paul
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:32 pm
by ISUZUROVER
EGT, when measured pre-turbo, is proportional to peak combustion temperature.
Your first link above also states that acidity is related to Sulphur in the fuel.
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:14 pm
by poppywhite
Interisting article paul
I didn't get a reply from Email to mann-hummel au. Some good input though ben
Have been reading through posts on other forums there is a lot of conflicting info sometimes
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:55 pm
by ISUZUROVER
poppywhite wrote:Interisting article paul
I didn't get a reply from Email to mann-hummel au. Some good input though ben
Have been reading through posts on other forums there is a lot of conflicting info sometimes
If you haven't heard back in another week or so, let me know (pm) and I will see if I can track down a local supplier for you.
