Outer Limits 4x4 Board

just picked up some Z334 filters for the toyo expecting made in Australia. Why I chose that brand. Was surprised to find they are now made in china

they were shit anyway, much better products available at same/similar cost, better multipass filtering , better anti drainback even thicker steel in casing so dont stress they're probably bi worse than aussie ones!

And which brands are better then Ryco then?

We use fleetguard on all our trucks at work, I've started using them in the cruiser cause I get a good price.

TheOtherLeft wrote:And which brands are better then Ryco then?

Donaldson
MANN+HUMMEL / MANN Filter
Fleetgard / Cummins Filtration
CooperS (note - not cooper (without S))

99% chance that one of the above companies probably manufactured the OEM filters for your vehicle. So if you buy direct from a dupplier, you whould be able to get OEM quality filters for not much more than a ryco price.

From the data I have seen, ryco filters are nothing special.

Fleetguard cross-matching page...

http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/catalo ... partSearch

Type in the ryco equivalent number and away you go

Or if you dont know the codes... by manfucturer

http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/catalo ... md=Mfrcode

out of curiosity, what are people paying for Z334s or equiv?

Im trying to buy a box full.

ISUZUROVER wrote:

TheOtherLeft wrote:And which brands are better then Ryco then?

Donaldson
MANN+HUMMEL / MANN Filter
Fleetgard / Cummins Filtration
CooperS (note - not cooper (without S))

99% chance that one of the above companies probably manufactured the OEM filters for your vehicle. So if you buy direct from a dupplier, you whould be able to get OEM quality filters for not much more than a ryco price.

From the data I have seen, ryco filters are nothing special.

lol, did a search for Z416 a common Nissan Diesel by-pass oil filter, Fleetguard have nothing of that type.

From what I've seen I think it's all the same stuff, maybe the nippon filters be good/better but not by much I would think.

zagan wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:

TheOtherLeft wrote:And which brands are better then Ryco then?

Donaldson
MANN+HUMMEL / MANN Filter
Fleetgard / Cummins Filtration
CooperS (note - not cooper (without S))

99% chance that one of the above companies probably manufactured the OEM filters for your vehicle. So if you buy direct from a dupplier, you whould be able to get OEM quality filters for not much more than a ryco price.

From the data I have seen, ryco filters are nothing special.

lol, did a search for Z416 a common Nissan Diesel by-pass oil filter, Fleetguard have nothing of that type.

From what I've seen I think it's all the same stuff, maybe the nippon filters be good/better but not by much I would think.

lol yourself - obviously didn't try very hard. Epic fail???

Z416 is equivalent to:

MANN+HUMMEL WP 928/82
DONALDSON P502068
FLEETGUARD LF3863

It certainly isn't "all the same stuff". Donaldson, MANN+HUMMEL and Fleetgard have large R&D departments and develop a lot of new media. Most of the others just reverse engineer products from the big 3.

http://www.mann-hummel.com/mf_prodkata_eur/index.html
https://dynamic.donaldson.com/webc/WebS ... rence.html

ferrit wrote:out of curiosity, what are people paying for Z334s or equiv?

Im trying to buy a box full.

$25 for a single sakura. You should be able to get a box of 10 toyota OEM for $30 each. From the photos i have seen, it is what ill be doing from now on. Will post accross a few pics at lunch time.

ferrit wrote:out of curiosity, what are people paying for Z334s or equiv?

Im trying to buy a box full.

dont know about boxes but $26 bigW $29 local engineering shop and most car and aggricultural parts supply

HDJ105 wrote:

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:

Stuart wrote:There is a brand called Maxx filters that come out of the same factory as genuine Toyota ones, too look at, the only differance is one is lacking the Toyota symbol, I get them of a local mechanic and he too swears by them, I think he charges me about $25

Strange - I was told the same thing about the Nippon Max filters. Cutting them open revealed absolutley nothing in common.

Same can be said of the Sakura brand, look the same on the outside, definate difference on the inside. I'm sure all the aftermarket filters are different to the OE ones.

Here's some old pics I have on file, pretty self explanatory.

That is from the lcool forum, i hope hdj105 wont mind me posting.
me3 has also got some pics on his site from cutting open further filters.

+dj_hansen+ wrote:
That is from the lcool forum, i hope hdj105 wont mind me posting.
me3 has also got some pics on his site from cutting open further filters.

Thanks for posting that! Very interesting.

The toyota filter looks like a bypass filter? Is that right?

The other (Sakura) is most definitely a full flow filter.

Since toyota don't make their own filters, one of the aftermarket suppliers (probably either Donaldson or denso/toyoda?) should be able to supply a filter identical to the OE toyota.

ISUZUROVER wrote:

zagan wrote:lol, did a search for Z416

lol yourself - obviously didn't try very hard. Epic fail???

Z146 is equivalent to:

lysdexia is a biatch. EPIC FAIL!

AJ wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:

zagan wrote:lol, did a search for Z416

lol yourself - obviously didn't try very hard. Epic fail???

Z146 is equivalent to:

lysdexia is a biatch. EPIC FAIL!

- thanks for that - fixed it now. They ALL make a z416 equivalent (as well as a z146 ).

Not (normally) lysdexic - was late, and I had had a few ...

ISUZUROVER wrote:
Thanks for posting that! Very interesting.

The toyota filter looks like a bypass filter? Is that right?

Correct

ISUZUROVER wrote: The other (Sakura) is most definitely a full flow filter.

Not sure.. having moved from Z9 on Hilux which leak like a stuck pig to Z334 on a cruiser, its nice not having to work around a leaking filter. Im not sure whether this is a Ryco vs Toyota thing or a Bypass vs Full Flow thing. I assume it has to do with the anti-drain back valve.

+dj_hansen+ wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:
Thanks for posting that! Very interesting.

The toyota filter looks like a bypass filter? Is that right?

Correct

ISUZUROVER wrote: The other (Sakura) is most definitely a full flow filter.

Not sure.. having moved from Z9 on Hilux which leak like a stuck pig to Z334 on a cruiser, its nice not having to work around a leaking filter. Im not sure whether this is a Ryco vs Toyota thing or a Bypass vs Full Flow thing. I assume it has to do with the anti-drain back valve.

Not sure what you mean? The other filter in the pic is a Ryco?

Anyone selling a full flow filter for a bypass application is unscrupulous. The average FF filter will remove particles down to about 50 microns. The average bypass filter should remove <10 micron particles, if not finer still.

ISUZUROVER wrote:

zagan wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:

TheOtherLeft wrote:And which brands are better then Ryco then?

Donaldson
MANN+HUMMEL / MANN Filter
Fleetgard / Cummins Filtration
CooperS (note - not cooper (without S))

99% chance that one of the above companies probably manufactured the OEM filters for your vehicle. So if you buy direct from a dupplier, you whould be able to get OEM quality filters for not much more than a ryco price.

From the data I have seen, ryco filters are nothing special.

lol, did a search for Z416 a common Nissan Diesel by-pass oil filter, Fleetguard have nothing of that type.

From what I've seen I think it's all the same stuff, maybe the nippon filters be good/better but not by much I would think.

lol yourself - obviously didn't try very hard. Epic fail???

Z416 is equivalent to:

FLEETGUARD LF3863

That's a Z334 filter for a Toyota diesel.

I've already looked that up, apprantly that filter doesn't allow for a by-pass of oil, so no good for a diesel that requires a filter of that type.

The other brands no idea as I haven't looked at them.

most of these filters only do 5 micros anyway... I've only seen bike oil filters going down to 1-2 micros SS as well so wash then re-use.

zagan wrote:
That's a Z334 filter for a Toyota diesel.

I've already looked that up, apprantly that filter doesn't allow for a by-pass of oil, so no good for a diesel that requires a filter of that type.

The other brands no idea as I haven't looked at them.

most of these filters only do 5 micros anyway... I've only seen bike oil filters going down to 1-2 micros SS as well so wash then re-use.

Please make some sense - I have NFI what you are trying to say.

Z334 =
Donaldson P550597
MANN+HUMMEL WP 928/80
Fleetguard LF3608


Doesn't allow for a bypass = no ADBV?????????????


No lube filters can be "washed and reused" - but maybe I am misunderstanding as you aren't making much sense.

ISUZUROVER wrote:

zagan wrote:
That's a Z334 filter for a Toyota diesel.

I've already looked that up, apprantly that filter doesn't allow for a by-pass of oil, so no good for a diesel that requires a filter of that type.

The other brands no idea as I haven't looked at them.

most of these filters only do 5 micros anyway... I've only seen bike oil filters going down to 1-2 micros SS as well so wash then re-use.

Please make some sense - I have NFI what you are trying to say.



I think what hes saying is that on some motor cycles is that you can get supposidly 1-2 micron stainless srugical mesh (yeah sureand made in china) washible and reuseable filters.they cost from 30 to 100 dollars.
but why whould you really want to wash out a filter that has already done its job? Its caught the metal and particals and then you hope that when you wash it you get all that out then you put a less than perfect now second hand and possibly not perfectly washed filter back into your motor with new perfectly clean oil so your filter can now dirty it.
some people have no farking idea
oils cheap filters are cheap change them and throw them away


[/b]

ajsr wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:

zagan wrote:
That's a Z334 filter for a Toyota diesel.

I've already looked that up, apprantly that filter doesn't allow for a by-pass of oil, so no good for a diesel that requires a filter of that type.

The other brands no idea as I haven't looked at them.

most of these filters only do 5 micros anyway... I've only seen bike oil filters going down to 1-2 micros SS as well so wash then re-use.

Please make some sense - I have NFI what you are trying to say.



I think what hes saying is that on some motor cycles is that you can get supposidly 1-2 micron stainless srugical mesh (yeah sureand made in china) washible and reuseable filters.they cost from 30 to 100 dollars.
but why whould you really want to wash out a filter that has already done its job? Its caught the metal and particals and then you hope that when you wash it you get all that out then you put a less than perfect now second hand and possibly not perfectly washed filter back into your motor with new perfectly clean oil so your filter can now dirty it.
some people have no farking idea
oils cheap filters are cheap change them and throw them away


[/b]

Ok this is what I'm saying.

99% of oil filters for a car/4wd etc will be 5 microns I haven't seen a car/4wd filter filter smaller than that.

Bike oil filters are the same deal as well, but you can buy an after market oil filter which is made in the USA by a company called Scott's they also do the Scott's oilier's it's a chain oiler which lubes the chain all the time for you.

The Scott's oil filter is made by them with a laser cuter which they burn holes through SS sheet they tested the filtering and it goes down to 1-2 microns, the guy wanted a oil filter you could wash out and reuse, which is the reason why it's full SS, no paper filtering.

So instead of paying $25AUD for a Z416 filter you buy the 1 filter and wash it out with degreaser etc.

People with racing bikes and teams use the SS oil filters for the better than avg filtering you can get from a paper filter.

The reason why I bring it up is beacuse people here are saying X filter is crap and X filter is better, simply based it on how much paper is inside the filter.

Also have 2 different types of filter, by-pass and non by-pass, basicly one lets the oil pass by without filtering it at first the other doesn't let oil pass with out being filtered.

A Z416 is a by-pass filter.
A Z334 is a non by-pass filter.

Both have the exact same thread (so you'll see Z416 and Z334 being listed for the same motor not same make of car/4wd) but the Z416 is longer than the Z334 filter.

zagan wrote:
99% of oil filters for a car/4wd etc will be 5 microns I haven't seen a car/4wd filter filter smaller than that.

Bike oil filters are the same deal as well, but you can buy an after market oil filter which is made in the USA by a company called Scott's they also do the Scott's oilier's it's a chain oiler which lubes the chain all the time for you.

The Scott's oil filter is made by them with a laser cuter which they burn holes through SS sheet they tested the filtering and it goes down to 1-2 microns, the guy wanted a oil filter you could wash out and reuse, which is the reason why it's full SS, no paper filtering.

So instead of paying $25AUD for a Z416 filter you buy the 1 filter and wash it out with degreaser etc.

People with racing bikes and teams use the SS oil filters for the better than avg filtering you can get from a paper filter.

The reason why I bring it up is beacuse people here are saying X filter is crap and X filter is better, simply based it on how much paper is inside the filter.

Also have 2 different types of filter, by-pass and non by-pass, basicly one lets the oil pass by without filtering it at first the other doesn't let oil pass with out being filtered.

A Z416 is a by-pass filter.
A Z334 is a non by-pass filter.

Both have the exact same thread (so you'll see Z416 and Z334 being listed for the same motor not same make of car/4wd) but the Z416 is longer than the Z334 filter.

There is so much wrong in that post I don't know where to start...

Firstly, most filters ARE NOT SIEVES. They work on a number of mechanisms - but mainly inertial impaction in liquid filters. This means that they remove particles SMALLER than the holes in the filter material.

Firstly - full flow filters filter the main oil flow. In order to do this they need to have good flow characteristics. For this reason, a full flow can only remove particles down to about 50 microns.

Bypass filters take a small portion of the main flow and filter it finely. Down to a few microns for the best of them. Bypass centrifuges are even better - some down to 0.020 Microns!!!


I looked up the filters you mentioned, they use stainless mesh according to the website - and claim to be 35 micron - Please show me where they say 1 micron??? Mesh has a MUCH LOWER porosity than (cellulose) filter media. I would expect those filters to have much worse pressure drop than a conventional filter. A mesh screen instead of a real filter is a VERY bad idea IMO, and I am surprised so many of the bike fraternity are falling for it. I am sure it would clog much fater than a real filter and have lower overall mass removal.

I don't know why you think that just because a filter is used on bikes (and race teams) it is any good. Bike engines are not expected to last long, and race engines much shorter. Most race cars use K&N air filters... but you would have rocks in your head (and your engine) if you use one on a 4x4.


The reason the amount of media is important, is that most filters are DEPTH FILTERS. Surface area and depth/thickness of media are very important parameters.

Very useful tech info, between this and an earlier air filter discussion I've learned a lot.

Could you explain "impact" filter - I assume that means the particles collide with the media and stick ? How ?

Thanks.

+dj_hansen+ wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:
Thanks for posting that! Very interesting.

The toyota filter looks like a bypass filter? Is that right?

Correct

ISUZUROVER wrote: The other (Sakura) is most definitely a full flow filter.

Not sure.. having moved from Z9 on Hilux which leak like a stuck pig to Z334 on a cruiser, its nice not having to work around a leaking filter. Im not sure whether this is a Ryco vs Toyota thing or a Bypass vs Full Flow thing. I assume it has to do with the anti-drain back valve.

Z334 or equivelent are supposed to be double filter. ie bypass and full flow. 2 different internal components in pics thanks for those
My supplier told me that Genuine Toyota, Sakura, FSA and some others (maybe fleetguard but dont quote me on fleetguard )I cant recall all come from sakura factory in indonesia.
This started as a comment that Ryco are now made in china! I like to buy Australian were I can

ISUZUROVER wrote:

+dj_hansen+ wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:
Thanks for posting that! Very interesting.

The toyota filter looks like a bypass filter? Is that right?

Correct

ISUZUROVER wrote: The other (Sakura) is most definitely a full flow filter.

Not sure.. having moved from Z9 on Hilux which leak like a stuck pig to Z334 on a cruiser, its nice not having to work around a leaking filter. Im not sure whether this is a Ryco vs Toyota thing or a Bypass vs Full Flow thing. I assume it has to do with the anti-drain back valve.

Not sure what you mean? The other filter in the pic is a Ryco?

Anyone selling a full flow filter for a bypass application is unscrupulous. The average FF filter will remove particles down to about 50 microns. The average bypass filter should remove <10 micron particles, if not finer still.

Sorry ben... working on too many tangents here. The sakura as pictured is marketted as a bypass filter, as-per a z334 (ryco #) equivalent and toyota (not sure on #) equivalent, and as stated 'ápparently' comes from the same factory as toyota etc. Obviously the filters are clearly different in that photo, however i have a 2 month old 1 on my car atm that i will cut up when it comes off as a comparison as IIRC that pic is old-ish.

I then went to yabber on about how the toyota oem filter i took off last oil change on my cruiser didnt leak oil everywhere in comparison the z9's that i used on my old 4runner/hilux and was wondering if this was due to the cruiser having a bypass and the hilux being FF or whether the Anti-Drain back valve actutally worked on the toyota filter and not the Ryco.

MightyMouse wrote:Very useful tech info, between this and an earlier air filter discussion I've learned a lot.

Could you explain "impact" filter - I assume that means the particles collide with the media and stick ? How ?

Thanks.

Hi MM - this site explains the main filtration mechanisms (diffusion, interception, inertial impaction)
http://www.tsiinc.fr/documents/ITI-041.pdf

In addition there are gravitational settling and electrostatic effects (however both of these are only relevant in some cases).

Poppywhite, thanks for that - is the Z334 the only filter when it is fitted? Just because filters come from the same factory doesn't mean they are the same filter. Unfortunately, I don't know of any (good) filters which are made in Australia.

dj-h - thanks - all clear now!

Poppywhite, thanks for that - is the Z334 the only filter when it is fitted? Just because filters come from the same factory doesn't mean they are the same filter. Unfortunately, I don't know of any (good) filters which are made in Australia.[/quote]

Yes ben only 1 filter connected. as in the pic's full flow and bipass in 1 canister. Dont know how internal filter distributes to oil to either I guess it just flows through both eventually
Dont know what inside of Sakura looks like.
Paul (me3) on here did did Gen toyo, ryco and nippon denso,I think he has finished getting oily soot all over the garage now lol.

Very little of not much is manufactured in australia now shame!

poppywhite wrote:Poppywhite, thanks for that - is the Z334 the only filter when it is fitted? Just because filters come from the same factory doesn't mean they are the same filter. Unfortunately, I don't know of any (good) filters which are made in Australia.

Yes ben only 1 filter connected. as in the pic's full flow and bipass in 1 canister. Dont know how internal filter distributes to oil to either I guess it just flows through both eventually
Dont know what inside of Sakura looks like.
Paul (me3) on here did did Gen toyo, ryco and nippon denso,I think he has finished getting oily soot all over the garage now lol.

Very little of not much is manufactured in australia now shame![/quote]

Ahh - I get how it works now. The toyota filter basically works by apportioning the flow between the filters. E.g. 80% of the flow might go through the FF part of the element, and 20% through the Bypass section. Though this would likely change as the filter loads.

ISUZUROVER wrote:[quote="

Ahh - I get how it works now. The toyota filter basically works by apportioning the flow between the filters. E.g. 80% of the flow might go through the FF part of the element, and 20% through the Bypass section. Though this would likely change as the filter loads.

Yes ben thats about it. can't answer the proportions. It is the way it should work
ben off this topic heard from weststates diesel systems http://westatesystems.com/ about centrifical filters. They have done conversions and I am following up at present ( on 1 vehicle they claim 23000k and oil test is still good. thanks les

TheOtherLeft wrote:And which brands are better then Ryco then?

Purolator PL series (syntehtic) was (probably still is) no 1 on test few years in a row now, mobil 1 Synthetic was very close and Amsoil has exceptional results.

If i remember on the last big test i read 9 out of the top 10 filters (Z9) where all actually made by purolator, the 10th place was Mobil 1 synthetic.