Outer Limits 4x4 Board

do they mate up and can u fit the early 4bd1 turbo motor to a mid 90s disco legaly?
capacity wise it would be fine but it is the age im concerned about

The 4BD1 only came with an LT95 or LT85.

All the conversions using R380s (that I know of) have either a completely custom bellhousing or an LT85 bellhousing welded and redrilled for the R380. Some info on AULRO about this.

4BD1s were in use in trucks until about 1995. Around 1987 the cam timing (and injection timing) changed, as did the injection pressure on NA models. Not sure if this was for emissions or other reasons. I think you will have to contact the RTA for a definite answer though.

cooter wrote:do they mate up and can u fit the early 4bd1 turbo motor to a mid 90s disco legaly?
capacity wise it would be fine but it is the age im concerned about

Chuck from Haultech has an R380 behind his 4bd1 turbo.

I know that he thinks the donk has too much torque for the gearbox as he has been through 2 or 3 of them.

Micka wrote:

cooter wrote:do they mate up and can u fit the early 4bd1 turbo motor to a mid 90s disco legaly?
capacity wise it would be fine but it is the age im concerned about

Chuck from Haultech has an R380 behind his 4bd1 turbo.

I know that he thinks the donk has too much torque for the gearbox as he has been through 2 or 3 of them.

If I remember correctly he has a custom steel adaptor/bellhousing.

Chuck drives his car hard though, and it is pretty heavy. Where are those pics of him doing a "tractor pull" against Sam's MogRover.

ISUZUROVER wrote:

Micka wrote:

cooter wrote:do they mate up and can u fit the early 4bd1 turbo motor to a mid 90s disco legaly?
capacity wise it would be fine but it is the age im concerned about

Chuck from Haultech has an R380 behind his 4bd1 turbo.

I know that he thinks the donk has too much torque for the gearbox as he has been through 2 or 3 of them.

If I remember correctly he has a custom steel adaptor/bellhousing.

Chuck drives his car hard though, and it is pretty heavy. Where are those pics of him doing a "tractor pull" against Sam's MogRover.

I think that was before it was mogged...but you're right, Ben, it is a heavy old POS. You should see him wheel his driveway that Def90 and I built at his house. So want to build one for myself.

but yours micka will look like a lake crossed with canyons and mountains

not a a 'fish pond' with boulders, although it did turn out sweet, and people can't pick that it is a 4wd track and not a 'natural garden with water'

hey his 'missus' was impressed so we all won

I'm currently considering the same conversion for my '95 Disco.
I'd have thought that welding and redrilling would be easier than manufacture.
I was thinking auto of some description. I haven't looked enough yet to have any real ideas there yet.
What are the LT boxes like? Are they 5 speeds?
Also, why would you not be able to get a 3.9 deisel transplant engineered?
I know someone who recently had an ls1 engineered and road registered into a 2 door lj(?) Torana.

Sorry, I forgot to mention the twin turbo 400 horsepower bit

disco95 wrote:I'm currently considering the same conversion for my '95 Disco.
I'd have thought that welding and redrilling would be easier than manufacture.
I was thinking auto of some description. I haven't looked enough yet to have any real ideas there yet.
What are the LT boxes like? Are they 5 speeds?
Also, why would you not be able to get a 3.9 deisel transplant engineered?
I know someone who recently had an ls1 engineered and road registered into a 2 door lj(?) Torana.

Sorry, I forgot to mention the twin turbo 400 horsepower bit

LT95 = 4spd (rangie/county/stage1 to 84) , LT77,LT85 = 5spd (LT85 V8 /isuzu county 85-90?, LT77/77S all classic rangie 5spd,disco V8/TDI to late 93 ish).

LS1 is newer than LJ so is cleaner emissions wise, 4BD1 could older than the vehicle being converted.

Cooter the way you will drive a 4BD1 man you will either need a LT95 or an ISUZU box mated to the LT230 T/Case anyting else wont suffer the strain in your disco so dont waste ya time sell off the r380 will its still good and use the coin for either a isuzu box or the old faithfull LT95 .....

As long as the R380 is later than suffix 'J', it's strength is close to an LT85. Suffix 'J' boxes have a weakness in the main shaft. 'K' and 'L' boxes have larger bearings and gears as well as fixing the stress raiser problem with the main shaft.

But LT85's have problems behind the 4BD1 - Maxi-drive used to modify a lot of these to improve their life.

The problem is torsional vibrations (from the torque impulses at low engine speed). This can be helped by increasing the idling speed, and by using lower gears when driving at slow speeds (even though the engine has heaps of torque from idle speed).

The low idle torque thing was the problem I'd heard about.
Now, how about a turbo'd 3.9 from a small truck? Perhaps it would be possible to get one from there post 1995?

disco95 wrote:...
Now, how about a turbo'd 3.9 from a small truck? Perhaps it would be possible to get one from there post 1995?

AFAIK that would have to be the Isuzu 4BD2-T. Unlike the 4BD1-T (unfortunately) the 4BD2-T is indirect injection, and are not as reliable (notorious for cracked heads).

The later Isuzu 4HE1-TC are good engines but not easy to fit in a Rover.

So maybe a Toyota 14BT (Dyna) or 15BT (Coaster) would be better.

Bush65 wrote:

disco95 wrote:...
Now, how about a turbo'd 3.9 from a small truck? Perhaps it would be possible to get one from there post 1995?

AFAIK that would have to be the Isuzu 4BD2-T. Unlike the 4BD1-T (unfortunately) the 4BD2-T is indirect injection, and are not as reliable (notorious for cracked heads).

The later Isuzu 4HE1-TC are good engines but not easy to fit in a Rover.

So maybe a Toyota 14BT (Dyna) or 15BT (Coaster) would be better.

Really? I didn't know the 4BD2Ts came here.

As they are essentially the same, could you just swap the head and injectors from a 4BD1 onto a 4BD2??? It would still be a 1995+ engine (at least the bottom end )

im currently looking at a 4bta cummins with a turbo 700 mated to a lt230
pushing out 230 hp and 400nm but need to raise some coin first

i will have to add a power bulge to clear the aftercooler and will need to mod my radiator setup somewhat

ISUZUROVER wrote:

Bush65 wrote:

disco95 wrote:...
Now, how about a turbo'd 3.9 from a small truck? Perhaps it would be possible to get one from there post 1995?

AFAIK that would have to be the Isuzu 4BD2-T. Unlike the 4BD1-T (unfortunately) the 4BD2-T is indirect injection, and are not as reliable (notorious for cracked heads).

The later Isuzu 4HE1-TC are good engines but not easy to fit in a Rover.

So maybe a Toyota 14BT (Dyna) or 15BT (Coaster) would be better.

Really? I didn't know the 4BD2Ts came here.

As they are essentially the same, could you just swap the head and injectors from a 4BD1 onto a 4BD2??? It would still be a 1995+ engine (at least the bottom end )

You may be right about the 4BD2T not coming here. It was the only conclusion that fitted disco95's question about turbo'd 3.9 ... post 1995.

There are some places importing truck parts from Japan, so they probably could be obtained.

cooter wrote:im currently looking at a 4bta cummins with a turbo 700 mated to a lt230
pushing out 230 hp and 400nm but need to raise some coin first

i will have to add a power bulge to clear the aftercooler and will need to mod my radiator setup somewhat

That would make an interesting beast.

I've seen info on the 4BT fitted to Defenders in the USA, but can't remember if any were 4BTA.

Bush65 wrote: You may be right about the 4BD2T not coming here. It was the only conclusion that fitted disco95's question about turbo'd 3.9 ... post 1995.

There are some places importing truck parts from Japan, so they probably could be obtained.

I am not sure, but I have some recollection that the NPRs had the 4BD1 until early-mid 90's, then it was replaced by the 4HF1 (4.3L), then the 4HE1-XX (4.7L).

Could be wrong though.

The 4HF1 is the same arrangement as the 4HE1 though...

Bush65 wrote:

disco95 wrote:...
Now, how about a turbo'd 3.9 from a small truck? Perhaps it would be possible to get one from there post 1995?

AFAIK that would have to be the Isuzu 4BD2-T. Unlike the 4BD1-T (unfortunately) the 4BD2-T is indirect injection, and are not as reliable (notorious for cracked heads).

The later Isuzu 4HE1-TC are good engines but not easy to fit in a Rover.

So maybe a Toyota 14BT (Dyna) or 15BT (Coaster) would be better.

Or perhaps I could put all my gear onto a 1991 chassis?
The Cummins conversion could be interesting too.

CHT on Aulro has a late 90's defender with a 4BD1T.

cooter wrote:im currently looking at a 4bta cummins with a turbo 700 mated to a lt230
pushing out 230 hp and 400nm but need to raise some coin first

i will have to add a power bulge to clear the aftercooler and will need to mod my radiator setup somewhat

The 4BTA's do have 400Nm, but that's about 135hp, far from 230.

i never said this engine was standard
im actually looking at the 1uzfe v8s atm

cooter wrote: i never said this engine was standard
im actually looking at the 1uzfe v8s atm

To get 230hp from one, you're looking at around 650Nm. Methinks the figures you've been given were massaged more than the engine was.

KiwiBacon wrote:

cooter wrote: i never said this engine was standard
im actually looking at the 1uzfe v8s atm

To get 230hp from one, you're looking at around 650Nm. Methinks the figures you've been given were massaged more than the engine was.

sorry mate your right the output is 230hp and 400ftLb not nm

cooter wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote:

cooter wrote: i never said this engine was standard
im actually looking at the 1uzfe v8s atm

To get 230hp from one, you're looking at around 650Nm. Methinks the figures you've been given were massaged more than the engine was.

sorry mate your right the output is 230hp and 400ftLb not nm

Stock they only spin to 2500rpm, that's why they only produce 130 odd hp.

I have my 4BD1T producing 400ft-lb of torque (520Nm) and despite spinning higher (3600 rev limit) it still comes up shy of 200hp.

Head over to www.4btswaps.com if you're keen to find out more about the cummins 4BT series. You'll find everything from factory spec sheets to dyno charts of 4BT powered vehicles in various states of tune.

this particular engine has had a heavier governor spring fitted and will spin to 3200 has a hi flow turbo pump mods and injectors

i will be doing the 4bta conversion early in the new year but unfortunately missed out on the engine i wanted

the engine will physicaly fit but there is no body making a substantial t700 to lt230 adapter that will handle high speed for very long
looks as though i will just be working my 300tdi unless i can find a more suitable engine
if any 1 is interested the dimensions of the 4bt cummins is L670mmxH800mmxW620mm
the engine will only do 2495 rpm stock but you can fit a 3200 rpm spring pretty easy
upper and lower coolant pipes are rhs

Over kill eng do a T700 to LT230 adaptor tho at 1200 od bucks it aint cheap

they don't make it some one else does and they told me that it is for off road use only and doesn't have the provision for a gearbox mount cast into it