Outer Limits 4x4 Board

So after years of Classic Range Rover ownership, where I've raced them, jumped them, bashed them senseless, rolled them over, cut them into utes and just about everything else you can think of, the time has come when the price of the P38 Rangie has got to a point where I could no longer say "no too expensive".

Yes I have finally made the leap (of faith or foolishness, that's yet to be seen) and purchased a 95 P38 Rangie HSE. And wow, what a vehicle.

Of course I'm sure it will have "idiosyncracies" that I will need to adjust to but they sure are a lot of car for the money.

So any comments/laughing/hysterical finger pointing or even good roverphile advice people??

PS. Still got my Turbo 80 for wheeling, the Rangie is just a "car"

Sounds like great car for delivering PIZZAS!

Matta

Good work!

Hope you don't have much trouble with it

Camo

geothro wrote:Sounds like great car for delivering PIZZAS!

Matta

Yeah thanks for that Matt. Maybe I should register it inthe business name so that I can claim all running costs as a deduction

Hey keep Sat 22nd Nov clear for a BBQ Party at my place ... my 45th!!!! Yeah I know .. kinda snuck up on me too

I'll take you for a fang in the beast ... you'll want one for sure after that ... heaps better than the toe-rag

How come these have a bad rap? What are the likely issues?

chimpboy wrote:How come these have a bad rap? What are the likely issues?

Well if the receipts in the glovebox are anything to go by (and they total over $30K !!!!) then I would say the common problem with this one at least has been the air suspension and the ABS brake accumulator. Both these systems have been replaced 2 or 3 times in 200,000 kms. And they are not cheapo either adding up to over $15K in the time it's been on the road. Of course all of that has been at Rover repair places (names with-held) and they aren't cheap either. Looks like the air suspension has a manual over ride system fitted but it's all working fine at the moment. I lifted the bonnet today to check the fluids and the car automatically lowered itself down to the ground ... weird but funky

Other than that, by the receipts it seems to like eating brake rotors and pads and also has had the dash out for blend motor replacements but that was only once and 6 years ago.

I also heard the early pre-98 motors had liner slip issues but I can't tell if this one has been replaced or not.

I think I will replace the Air susp with a coild conversion if it plays up but I'm enjoying it at the moment

Simo63 wrote:
I also heard the early pre-98 motors had liner slip issues but I can't tell if this one has been replaced or not.

I think I will replace the Air susp with a coild conversion if it plays up but I'm enjoying it at the moment

Wasnt the liner slip only in the 4.6motors?

I would stick with the airbags, that the whole point of having a late rangie.

turps wrote:
Wasnt the liner slip only in the 4.6motors?

Yes and this is a 4.6 motor as are all HSE's. I have now read through the paperwork a bit better and yes the motor was replaced under warranty, probably due to the slipping liner issue.

turps wrote:
I would stick with the airbags, that the whole point of having a late rangie.

For you maybe but not for me. I'm not willing to spend $5K or more over the next 5 years keeping the air bag suspension in place. The receipts ithat came with the car show the previous 2 owners spent over $5K repairing/replacing the air suspension. The moment it plays up it's gone for a coil conversion. Nothing wrong with coils and they are uber reliable.

Next weeks job, a 2 & 3/4 inch exhaust system. The current one is old and leaking (well it's only 1 minor leak but it's enough to convince the wife it needs a new system ) and if I'm going to spend the money fueling the thirstly 4.6 then I want to hear that sweet little V8 breathing

Mate, the business MUST be doing well if you can afford to pay the runnning costs of that thing!! :-) lol

Hmm that weekend coudl be a prob as I am trying to get the race prep'd for a race meeting the enxt day! I'll keep you posted!

Rangie now has front Maxi and a set of EWW rims.... Still got problems with that bloody PROJECTION unit though...

Matt

geothro wrote:Mate, the business MUST be doing well if you can afford to pay the runnning costs of that thing!! :-) lol

Hmm that weekend coudl be a prob as I am trying to get the race prep'd for a race meeting the enxt day! I'll keep you posted!

Rangie now has front Maxi and a set of EWW rims.... Still got problems with that bloody PROJECTION unit though...

Matt

Mate business not doing that well at all actually but life goes on.

Disappointed to hear you might not be able to make it mate .. maybe Chris can come along without you Nah just kidding although she is welcome anytime with or without her betrothed.

Glad to hear the front maxi is in and running, and the EWW wheels will look spiffy .. black as per the old ones? What tyres are you running now?

Mate I am soooo glad I didn't sell you that projection unit What seems to be the problem? I recall fitting one of these to my first comp Rangie and I had no end of problems with it. In the end it turned out that you really need to have the "right" cam lift and duration to make it run correctly. Worth looking into maybe?

Cheers
Simo

Airbags are relatively cheap from the US as well as other parts so keeping the air suspension wont cost you what the previous owners have paid to keep it going- as for the 4.6. even a new engine wont prevent the too common liner problems these have/had so keep an eye on the cooling system.

not all HSE's are 4.6 some are 4.0

Never say never Simo, although I have vowed never to buy one myself unless the old man sells his cheap (98 4.0 with 201K on the clock) because I know what's been done to the damn thing

Re- air suspension. Would convert if it's going to be a PIA. My 93 classic I converted back to coils and it was then hassle-free.

Would be flash rocking up on the building site in though but it would be 'plasterd' in 6 months and look awful

Trav

Loanrangie wrote:Airbags are relatively cheap from the US as well as other parts so keeping the air suspension wont cost you what the previous owners have paid to keep it going- as for the 4.6. even a new engine wont prevent the too common liner problems these have/had so keep an eye on the cooling system.

Hmm .. Interesting. You might be correct as the previous mutlitude of times it seems to have required repairs it has all been done either bu Austral Rover or MR in the later years. I would of thought MR was competative on price as they seem to have been on other things I have observed. Still, do you have US contacts?

Will keep an eye on the motor and cooling system but no more than any other vehicle I guess. If it's going to slip then nothing I can do about it except ensure I don't ever get it hot.

Thanks for the advice Loanrangie

orrangebuggy wrote:not all HSE's are 4.6 some are 4.0

Orrly?? Never knew that.

Aquarangie wrote:Never say never Simo, although I have vowed never to buy one myself unless the old man sells his cheap (98 4.0 with 201K on the clock) because I know what's been done to the damn thing

Re- air suspension. Would convert if it's going to be a PIA. My 93 classic I converted back to coils and it was then hassle-free.

Would be flash rocking up on the building site in though but it would be 'plasterd' in 6 months and look awful

Trav

Yeah I know where you are coming from Trav. I also thought "no way too complicated, too unreliabe and too bloody expensive. Whilst it may still be too complicated and unreliable I can no longer say it's too expensive. The price I paid for this thing is less than the depreciation we lost when we drove the wife's new Grand Vitara out of the dealership yard

And after a few days ownership I've gotta say it's a bloody nice car to drive. I'm even looking for excuses to go for a drive .. "what's that honey? ... You want me to pick up the dry cleaning .. sure" "you need some bread and milk .. no worries back in a minute"

orrangebuggy wrote:not all HSE's are 4.6 some are 4.0

ALL HSE's are 4.6 litre.

The S & SE were 4.0 litre.

put it on gas! i have the wifes on a gas injection system and it costs me about $70 for 650k's around town. next to no power loss you can't tell if its on gas or petrol but i'm having problem with the air bag suspension right now.

if you replace the air bags i have been told to go firestone (brother in law is a rover tech) as the dunlop ones have problems over time with shrinking and cracking. air pump don't use the std one, replace it with a good after market pump and the system should be fine.

they are a great car, the wife shows me up all the time in it

air pump don't use the std one, replace it with a good after market pump and the system should be fine

This is probably the best tip IMO.... If I were to find myself in a P38, that would be first on the list - possibly an Endless air setup. If you can get a decent size compressor that fills the 10 litre tank quickly, it won't matter if the bags are leaking a little bit.

What tends to happen is one or more bags start leaking first. Then overnight one bag loses all its air, and the EAS self levels a couple of times throughout the night, thus removing air from all the other bags. The pump is so small and slow (even when brand new, they take about 5 mins to pressurise the tank to 10bar (approx 150psi)), that it can't supply enough air to bring the car to target height before the computer logs a code. Especially if the pump is old, they thermal cut regularly under this long runtime condition (pump gets too hot and the system shuts it down for a while).

If you can install a maxair/arb or similar compressor on the side of the chassis and wire it into the standard pump wiring, you'll find the EAS works MUCH faster from lowest to highest setting. You could also just install it with a separate switch on the dash and just tee it in to the reservoir line - just make sure its wired through a 150PSI pressure switch.

If you hook a P38 up to workshop air (150psi with an industrial size reservoir), they will go bottom to top in about 3 seconds.

Scouse wrote:

orrangebuggy wrote:not all HSE's are 4.6 some are 4.0

ALL HSE's are 4.6 litre.

The S & SE were 4.0 litre.

That's what I thought but always willing to learn. Seems this time I might have been right (for a change )

Interesting. Is there any relationship between these airbags and the SLS in a Disco II?

Not that I have used him but the Airbag Man at Brendale seems very competitive for parts and alternatives to genuine.

When i picked up my p38 a couple of months ago, the seller told me that the dealer had quoted him $5000 to fix the air susp. All it turned out to be was a split airbag, which I was going to change out to Arnott III bags anyway. The Arnott bags give an extra couple of inches drop and the cool thing about them is that when you lift them to offroad height , they get softer and when they lower for highway they get harder!!!! You can really notice the difference.

There is P38 specialist( in QLD) working on a 2 inch lift, that when combined with these bags you will get an extra 5inch of travel.

Both the valve block and compressor can be rebuilt cheaply with kits available.

I've just fitted 32inch MTs, and have no rubbing with the original heights except in crawl mode, but I want to try some free software that lets you recalibrate each bag.

Brad.

Interesting. Is there any relationship between these airbags and the SLS in a Disco II?

They are a different bag used between the two. I can't actually remember off the top of my head whether they are a dunlop or firestone bag in the DII.

DII's have no valve block or reservoir though, only one solenoid to let air in, and one to let air out. Because of this, the pump is much bigger and more robust than a p38 one, however they do still burn out occasionally. On the whole the disco bags seem to leak a bit less often, and not much when they do. However, since they have no reservoir and no valve block, they won't self level overnight, so any tiny leak from a bag is noticed much earlier, as the car will be leaning over at the back in the morning (where a P38 would just be a touch lower all round).

szo wrote:When i picked up my p38 a couple of months ago, the seller told me that the dealer had quoted him $5000 to fix the air susp. All it turned out to be was a split airbag, which I was going to change out to Arnott III bags anyway. The Arnott bags give an extra couple of inches drop and the cool thing about them is that when you lift them to offroad height , they get softer and when they lower for highway they get harder!!!! You can really notice the difference.

There is P38 specialist( in QLD) working on a 2 inch lift, that when combined with these bags you will get an extra 5inch of travel.

Both the valve block and compressor can be rebuilt cheaply with kits available.

I've just fitted 32inch MTs, and have no rubbing with the original heights except in crawl mode, but I want to try some free software that lets you recalibrate each bag.

Brad.

Thanks Brad. A couple of questions please:

Do you know how much the arnott bags are each?
And are they a straight swap in replacement?
Where are the rebuild kits for the valve block and compressor available from?

Cheers
Simo

Reading these replies I'm almost convinced I need a P38 now.

TRobbo wrote:Reading these replies I'm almost convinced I need a P38 now.

They are the best! Who cares if you need to fix em all the time, fix everything properly and eventually you will have one sweet comfy offroad vehicle!

GRIMACE wrote:

TRobbo wrote:Reading these replies I'm almost convinced I need a P38 now.

They are the best! Who cares if you need to fix em all the time, fix everything properly and eventually you will have one sweet comfy offroad vehicle!

I knock them a bit but in reality they're not a bad bit of gear. the old mans p38 has been great over the last 4 1/2 years since he's owned it. Initially it had to have some $$$ spent (the HEVAC was the most exxy at nearly $3K inc. fiiting ) but the air suspension has been pretty good after sorting out the usual bugs that go with the system (personally I like simple so coil spring conversion would be one of the first things I did).

Trav

my friend has an 05 supercharged sport which is a VERY nice vehicle... (wish he would give it to me). I have never been in a p38 though so I have no idea how they compare.

and my old ES disco - well that's just a bush truck.

i just got the wifes car air suspension sorted. turn's out the eas (air suspension) logged so many folts it shut the system down. had to get the folts cleared buy a dealer as i can't do it and its working great now with a bigger pump.

best car i have brought and i have had a few cars. they might cost a bit more to fix when they break but they are great to drive and will take you just about every where you would ever want to go