Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Gday

well i rebuilt my old 2.6l petrol paj motor about 3000kms ago and i fell its getting let down by the stock carby, the engine was completley rebuilt and has extractors

now from what ive found using search is that a 32/36mm webber or a stock xf falcon one is a good replacement.

so
-is the falcon carby a 32/36mm webber
-also what are the different types of webbers everyone talks about (DGV, DGAV,DGEV--and whats better
-is it easy to get a rebuild kit for those carbys(exxy?)


its just i have a mate who will give me the carby of his old xf motor(now has a 351:D) for free and i want to know if im wasting my time power/fuel economy wise

cheers

Its been a while since ive been playing/ modding with those carbies, but those numbers sound ok.

I put an XE carb onto a precrossflow motor, and then tuned it with a gas analyser.
Was fantastic re milage, smoother power too.

And I suggest you do the same.
Air corrector jets, main metering jets, accelerator pump jets etc may be ok to start with, but not ideal for cruise, acceleration/ wide open throttle etc.

You could use the cortina 2l motor jet sizes as a start. (google may help).
Beyond that, they are a good carby, but their idle circuit is prone to blocking, and causing idle problems if you get dirty fuel, or dont keep filters up to them.

Get the carb, do some research, kits are cheap, and readily available.
Only other thing you may find is depending on wheather it is mounted east west, or north south on the motor, it may suffer mixture problems when your doing some 4x4ing at angles.

On the old formula fords, we had to fit baffles in the fuel bowl, to address fuel surge, specially long loaded circuits.
This may work against you whilst 4x4ing.

If your original carby is cleaned up, and works well, then I would stick with that, or try this one as a project, and whilst the original is off, rekit it, and put it back on if you are not happy with the result.

cheers

Trains

thanks mate---heaps of info

yeah its kinda a project car now... only gets driven maybe once a week if that.

from memory the carb from my mates motor is same (north south) as the paj one so that should be sweet.

A gas analyzer? like for measuring the stiocometric ratio of air/fuel????

If your original carby is cleaned up, and works well, then I would stick with that, or try this one as a project, and whilst the original is off, rekit it, and put it back on if you are not happy with the result.

yeah my old carby was rebuilt about 4years ago but wasnt touched in the engine rebuild---from what the forums outers and 4wdm say, the stock carby is no good.

-on another note- i just got a pm from a boke who used to do a lot of carby work and he might have the webber jet sizes for my engine

thanks

When tuning webber's exhaust size is important, exhaust gas flow sets the venturi speed for the main jets. If the exhaust is to big it will run rich.

This may not be as important with a down drought, it was very important when I had the twin side droughts.

I had a 28/32 down drought and replaced it with 2 40mm DCOE side droughts, so I had 1 throat per cylinder on a 4 cylinder.

You may have issues with the fuel running over the top of the main jet ect on side angles. Its been a long lime since I had the down drought and I can't realy remember what it looked like above the bowl.

nastytroll wrote:When tuning webber's exhaust size is important, exhaust gas flow sets the venturi speed for the main jets. If the exhaust is to big it will run rich.

No.

Essentially, changing anything on the engine can throw out the tuning of the carburettor, but that doesn't mean you can't tune to suit the configuration. If you tune your carby, then change your exhaust, there is a possibility that your carby will no longer be tuned as well. But to say that a carby will run rich because the exhaust is too big is misleading.

But why dick around with carburettors? Install Magna fuel injection. Better fuel economy, easier starting, smoother running - no more issues with slopes.

But why dick around with carburettors? Install Magna fuel injection. Better fuel economy, easier starting, smoother running - no more issues with slopes

yeah in perfect world that would be the go- would also like to do the whole turbo thing.

But im still at uni at the moment- got 1yr to go, so money is tight, I only earn $100 a week when at uni casue im not eligible for all the free goverment money.

and ive got other stuff to do(drinking,4wding,traveling).

Also this carby is FREE:D, im just looking to finish seting up the car cheaply but to be realiable and to do what i need it to do when we go away (normal touring, sand driving, maybe a bit of mud and hillclimbs)

if i can set the new carby setup for $200 or so(incl rebuild,rejetted) that would be good- i should be able to get the boss who is a diesel mechanic to help me rebuild it

cheers

got a workshop manual for XF here somewhere if you need any info drop me a pm

The carby kits will have exploded diagrams of the carbys.

There really simple, and very good design.
The downdraught, which is what your being given is a good carby.

Dont confuse it with side draught ones which are a totally different animal...............and boy do they sound sweet.
Usually hear the induction noise well before the exhaust .
Or, on a V8, 4 set vertically...................ohhhhhhhh baby........yeahhhhh

T

Ps, if it was mine, I would just put a kit thru the current 4 year old carby, clean it, set mixture, and enjoy it.

trains wrote:
Ps, if it was mine, I would just put a kit thru the current 4 year old carby, clean it, set mixture, and enjoy it.

yeah that would probably be the easier solution, but im just chasing some more power and better to the same fuel economy (im getting 450ishkms per 70l which is round 15.5l/100km) and the carbys free

Also hunting round the forums there are enough people who have done it and said its worth it to at least try.

Dont confuse it with side draught ones which are a totally different animal...............and boy do they sound sweet.
Usually hear the induction noise well before the exhaust .

yeah true that, my mate used to have a RS2000 with twin webbers- sounded oldschool awesome!!!

DGAV = Downdraught Auto choke.
DGEV = Downdraught Electric choke

One thing to remember talking about chokes, your Mikuni operates off engine coolant but the Webber choke of the Falcons runs electric. It is powered off the rear of the alternator.

You will have to rig up a reliable 12v power source that only comes on with the ignition. You wont be able to use you original alternator as it wont have a pick up (by this I dont mean replace it, leave it alone), just run a relay type setup similar to that on your driving lights.

-Scott- wrote:

nastytroll wrote:When tuning webber's exhaust size is important, exhaust gas flow sets the venturi speed for the main jets. If the exhaust is to big it will run rich.

No.

Essentially, changing anything on the engine can throw out the tuning of the carburettor, but that doesn't mean you can't tune to suit the configuration. If you tune your carby, then change your exhaust, there is a possibility that your carby will no longer be tuned as well. But to say that a carby will run rich because the exhaust is too big is misleading.

But why dick around with carburettors? Install Magna fuel injection. Better fuel economy, easier starting, smoother running - no more issues with slopes.

I agree completely Scott, what I was getting at is to do it on the cheap there are a whole lot of issues re-jetting to suit the applications and engine/exhaust spec's.

If your goin to muck around with carb's it will cost more then you think, in both time and money. You would be best off getting a carb off something similar in displacement so the jetting is close to start with.

Exhaust size and shape also varies power delivery, but this is a different topic.

Personally as much as I love webbers I would still just re-kit the stock carb and upgrade to injection when you make more money.

Trains, I also agree, nothing sounds better the the huge induction noise of side draughts at wide open throttle.

trains wrote:The carby kits will have exploded diagrams of the carbys.

There really simple, and very good design.
The downdraught, which is what your being given is a good carby.

Dont confuse it with side draught ones which are a totally different animal...............and boy do they sound sweet.
Usually hear the induction noise well before the exhaust .
Or, on a V8, 4 set vertically...................ohhhhhhhh baby........yeahhhhh

T

Ps, if it was mine, I would just put a kit thru the current 4 year old carby, clean it, set mixture, and enjoy it.

tend to agree with trains here! lot of mucking around setting up . you will probally need some help with rejetting ford carby,v8 ford is different animal than pajero.
I had 350 holly on 4.4 rangie and it was a pig, didnt have to get verry of road and the baffels mentioned in earlier post would have been handy. Carby flooding drowning in fuel and surging,
your carby dont have to be far out and your fuel bill soares or your motor fuc up so no real saveing

Yer, worth checking over your carby, making sure your dizzy is advancing where it needs to, no vac leaks, make sure choke is operating correctly, fuel float level is correct etc, and general tidying up can give very worth while results.


T

i personly wouldn't use the XF weber carby on anything but an XF falcon engine.

for the paj, I'd be using a DGV weber (water or elec choke) a DGAS slightly larger then a DGV with both throats being the same and operating simultaneously and having duel idle mixture screws.
OR a 180 holley

they all use the same adapter plate and the same type of jets, air bleeds, E-tubes and discharge tubes.

want33s wrote:DGAV = Downdraught Auto choke.
DGEV = Downdraught Electric choke

thanks mate


well theres alot of different opinions here, kinda hard now to decide which was to go.

but i did find the webber carb site, which is very helpfull
http://www.redlineweber.com/html/applic ... UBISHI.htm

the carb it recommend is a 32/36, and just browsing the net for info on the falcon carby its a 34mm


i also found some other good stuff on the net
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/758764/9
http://www.mogwa.org/forum/phpBB2/viewt ... 2cf3740fa5

but i think for the sake of keeping it cheap and to stop heaps of stuffing around
Ill check the timming, vac leaks
etc etc

and if that works out good then ill just hold off on the carby idea

cheers