Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Been talking and dreaming with a few people on the topic of how would one setup a vehicle with the intention of running the Malaysian Rain Forest Challenge and the Borneo Safari.

What I can see form the bits of research I have done Toyota is a lot more prominent than Nissan in these countries. This would lead me to use a Toyota engine over a Nissan, the bit I just can not work out my self is whether to go turbo petrol or turbo diesel. The more I watch the RFC videos the diesel to be the better option in my opinion. Some thing a little older with mechanical fuel pump, as little electrics as possible. So with this I would lean to a built 1HZ turbo'd engine.

Gearbox I would stick with a standard Landcruiser 5 speed manual.

Transfer case, I would use GQ patrol hands down, they are bloody strong.

Rear axle 80 series landcruiser

Front axle hybrid GQ / 80 series or hybrid 60/80 series.

And to keep the bastardization process alive I would shove it all in a SIII Landrover, strong ladder chassis, and light weight alloy panels.

What would others do and why?

bubs wrote:Been talking and dreaming with a few people on the topic of how would one setup a vehicle with the intention of running the Malaysian Rain Forest Challenge and the Borneo Safari.

What I can see form the bits of research I have done Toyota is a lot more prominent than Nissan in these countries. This would lead me to use a Toyota engine over a Nissan, the bit I just can not work out my self is whether to go turbo petrol or turbo diesel. The more I watch the RFC videos the diesel to be the better option in my opinion. Some thing a little older with mechanical fuel pump, as little electrics as possible. So with this I would lean to a built 1HZ turbo'd engine.

Gearbox I would stick with a standard Landcruiser 5 speed manual.

Transfer case, I would use GQ patrol hands down, they are bloody strong.

Rear axle 80 series landcruiser

Front axle hybrid GQ / 80 series or hybrid 60/80 series.

And to keep the bastardization process alive I would shove it all in a SIII Landrover, strong ladder chassis, and light weight alloy panels.

What would others do and why?

I would likey stay away from a big boosted TD for a couple of reasons, Keeping it cool is one of them, all that weight up front is the other.

For mud you want to keep it light, and have the ability to make wheel speed very quickly.. not chaarachstics you associste with a mechanical turbo diesal.
You can make electrics behave long term even in very wet conditions, you can also have a nice light alloy block.

From what I've seen of these back when Bushdriver were right into it, it mostly looks muddy/slick with long hills etc.

I reckon I'd be going for something that can make more wheelspeed and with higher power to weight.

I'd have to say a dead stock 1JZ/2JZ with steel exhaust wheel and Water/air intercooling.

If you run a stock ECU it should run fine in that environment, make plenty of torque, lots of HP, but more importantly, you'll have lots of usable rev range and throttle response for the greasy hills etc.

I'd have to say a well wired stock ECU car with a swimmer fuel pump won't be any less reliable than a built 1HZ with boost in it. We just don't have trouble with our EFI cars.

I'd also run an auto- smooth power modulation and no loss of momentum on gearchanges. Ideally a T400 with a big cooler, but a toyota box could work just as well, I just think it's going to be weaker and more complex than required.

I think the big issue would be keeping the weight right down. I'd be aiming for something implausible and try to stick to it - let's say 1400kg complete. In the mud, every KG is going to hurt. From memory, these events are tyre limited (36" or something, yes?) so you only want enough strength to run a 36" tyre on a low traction surface. Again, a lighter setup is going allow lighter parts to live.

Any time you are tyre limited you need to try and build light. Most australian competitors haven't sorted this out yet.

How about this -

LWB vitara
SR20 DET
C4 auto
Hilux transfer
hilux diffs with longs etc- should be plenty strong enough.

something like A1's vit but with less driveline strength and more HP.

Just my 2C.

Chippa broke nothing in his Rangie over there, think 35 10.5 Centipedes though.

But like Bubs idea of Rover Hybrid, bit biased on previous vehicle.

Competition has stepped up. Look at the Thai Suzukis at OBC a couple of years ago.

is this the comp that the Smithys have done a few times with success in their Rangie?

If so, would they have changed much from that unit to race in that comp, against what they would run in OBC?

LOCKEE wrote:Competition has stepped up. Look at the Thai Suzukis at OBC a couple of years ago.

So with that said you need to build a zook with an alloy blocked turbo'd motor then work out how to adapt one of those Hybausa (sp?) bike motors to a high mount.

bogged wrote:is this the comp that the Smithys have done a few times with success in their Rangie?

If so, would they have changed much from that unit to race in that comp, against what they would run in OBC?

Other vehicles have evolved a lot since then.

Hummers Rangie, Mikes Rangie, Chippa's Rangie were all on the money at the time.

Kermit's Rangie might be the perfect balance between size, grunt and strength over there.

what about portals for clearance. lockee, have you seen tims portal ute drive ruts with q78's and minimal wheel spin where obc trucks on 38's get stuck.
david

modman wrote:what about portals for clearance. lockee, have you seen tims portal ute drive ruts with q78's and minimal wheel spin where obc trucks on 38's get stuck.
david

Will it keep up at speed?

Balance between the two is required when you look at the event.

bubs wrote:So with this I would lean to a built 1HZ turbo'd engine.

Why?

Toyota make direct injection engines which are more efficient (more power from the same fuel/boost).
Get a 1HD-FT if you want to run a toyota diesel.

As for making wheel speed. I'm guessing none of these people have driven a well tuned turbo diesel. They deliver far more torque than a petrol and right where you can use it.

Weight is a big difference though.

KiwiBacon wrote:

bubs wrote:So with this I would lean to a built 1HZ turbo'd engine.

Why?

Toyota make direct injection engines which are more efficient (more power from the same fuel/boost).
Get a 1HD-FT if you want to run a toyota diesel.

As for making wheel speed. I'm guessing none of these people have driven a well tuned turbo diesel. They deliver far more torque than a petrol and right where you can use it.

Weight is a big difference though.

x2 for the HDFT, no more electronics than a 1HZ, nearly double the power from the factory. Perhaps even a 15b-ft depending weight, 4.1lt, 4cyl truck engine

http://www.cruiserfaq.com/05-04.php

my dream would be

hilux extracab on 80s diffs (nothing special just coils)
1jz/2jz depending on budget
pto/gods winch
and waterproof everything

i just got back from a trip to malaysia and the mud there is something to be reckoned with!!!

its kind of like toothpaste consistency and just as sticky (and smells worse than a pulic toilet next to a pub that sells curry). It also soups up really fast - what started as nice turf for our paintball tournament was slush by the end of the first day, by the second day it was ankle deep and the third was just over ankles and more watery... so i imagine you dont want to be the last one up the hill over there in a 4x4 comp!

check this out and pm the bloke doin the buildup
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic149568.php

chunderlicious wrote:my dream would be

hilux extracab on 80s diffs (nothing special just coils)
1jz/2jz depending on budget
pto/gods winch
and waterproof everything

I like this,



but would prefer an x5

KiwiBacon wrote:
As for making wheel speed. I'm guessing none of these people have driven a well tuned turbo diesel. They deliver far more torque than a petrol and right where you can use it.

I've owned a very well tuned and relatively powerful turbodiesel and yes, it made plenty of wheelspeed, but lacked the fine throttle control of a petrol once on boost, so it was a bit "dumb" to drive on slippery hills - put it in a tall gear (normally 3rd low) and blast it, but it was a bit point and shoot - it was hard to modulate and play with the available grip and it was pretty doughy if you wanted to roll in an out of the throttle to get some grip back.

in comparison, my 660cc runs up at 5-6000 rpm and has razor sharp throttle control. I run hills in 4th low with a 6.5:1 transfer and 5.12 diffs with 34's, so the gearing is quite low to make up for low torque but that really lets the engine come alive and makes the car very easy to control at speed.

Likewise, my DD is a '07 STi and same deal- once into it's working range it's just so crisp.

I love diesels and as you know, I'd love to run a 4BTA/T400 in my Gwagen, but on slippery stuff that needs speed and control I'd prefer an efi turbo petrol.

Steve.

if its a high horsepower, tyre size limited, portaled, quick winching, lightweight, waterproof kind of build your after check this out

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showt ... =0&start=0

the pictures are abit hit and miss, but still good reading
cheers hugh

dr who? wrote:if its a high horsepower, tyre size limited, portaled, quick winching, lightweight, waterproof kind of build your after check this out

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showt ... =0&start=0

the pictures are abit hit and miss, but still good reading
cheers hugh

Linky no worky.

Steve.

it works for me?

failing that copy and paste it
im not brilliant with these computer things
Hugh

dr who? wrote:it works for me?

failing that copy and paste it
im not brilliant with these computer things
Hugh

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Most of the pics seem to be dead???

Here are some very vague specs. It is almost a tube buggy - ruggy/truggy - so not sure it would fit the specs?

specs........erm some stuff we had laying about unsure.gif
weight: light...... even tubed out I can lift it
balance: ask Will, lean on one end and you can pivot it with ease around the centre blink.gif
power: excessive
torque: before the cam and heads or after? lots ph34r.gif
axles: were from volvo...... now breathed on heavily, 4340/300m CVs, 4340 halfshafts, uprated diffs
wheels: Stazworks double beadlocks built to CTIS spec
tyres: 39.5x18x16.5 boggers (Thanks to Super Swamper Europe)
gearbox: Tremec TKO500 running a clutch the size of Hampshire
Motor: 2004 LS1 fed with twin Walbro 255s, fired by sequential injection
Winches: Hydraulic Team specials, courtesy of Sexpest and Mikko Lehmusto, 4 speed, shift on the fly and under full load
Brakes: Portal Tek stub axles, 4 piston Willwoods, vented discs, X brake keeping us from downhill nastiness smile.gif
Seats: garish and it maximum bad taste
Gearing: 145mph top end, quarter in 11 with an final of about 109 (according to the drag race calculator lol)

i was in the middle of doing a post like yours isuzurover when i was disrupted and then i was too late!!
ah well, cheers for getting the specs up
Hugh

They've been massively optimistic about both top speed and 1/4 mile IMHO.

It's still an atmo LS1 pushing A LOT of gears.

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:They've been massively optimistic about both top speed and 1/4 mile IMHO.

It's still an atmo LS1 pushing A LOT of gears.

Steve.

And HUGELY optimistic about weight. Has a shiteload of tubework - I am sure there is no change from 2t

but it is a great example of the kind of truck you are talking about, i'd imagine the rainforests are slightly more manageable than the swamps of northern russia where it was built to compete, having finished top 5 in the ladoga trophey on its first run out of the shed! and taking on vepsski les which is so remote there isnt even radio service!
but either way it would do very well in the rainforests
cheers Hugh