Outer Limits 4x4 Board

hey guys il lookin at doin a conversion on a fairly new model hilux an using patrol diff all though im not sure which model whould be the best ??
cheers hixi

GU diffs are the one`s to buy

Yes GU patrol are stronger but what are you doing with it ?

The extra money spent on GU's will buy you a locker for the front if you go GQ's.

GQ's are cheap and only getting cheaper. I have had a set for sale for 3 months and cant get $400 for them.

Nick

You can also add cromoly cv's to the gq axle, making it stronger than a gu axle.
The extra width of the gu axle (50 mm) may cause problems, or maybe an advantage depending on your set up.

GU H260 rear 37 spline, toyota 60 series front.

a 60 series front with $300 welded/ringed cv's will be stronger than a GQ or GU. Even upgrading to CAL chromo cv's the locking hubs will fail at ~5000ft/lb whereas a toyota with stock Aisan locking hubs is good for ~8000ft/lb.

The rear H260 are F#####in huge and have BIG axles, BUT they are a bit brittle when compare to others, althought there sheer size makes up for it.
H233 are not an option, far too weak, axles are so brittle and snap easily. We snapped 5 axles in 8 months. But now it has a H260 which hopefully will fix the problem. We do have a backup plan though - we have a set of 34spline side gears which we can EDM out to 35spline DANA, then run 300M axle and DANA60 unit bearings in place of the GU outers.

i would have thought if you were running comps and serious you would be getting 300m or hytuf axles made anyway...

so whats the ring dia on the front of a gu v a 60?
what are the stock axle dia front gu v 60?
what are the cv bell sizes front gu v 60?
what is the cv stub shaft dia front gu v 60?

whats the track width for gu v 60?
whats the break comparison for front gu v 60?

Serg

also forgot to ask why do you guys all run free wheeling hubs????

i never had them on my old series rover. and there not used on any permanent 4wd rover...sorry i only know rovers..

please dont give me the fuel consumption argument.... its 2/8ths of FA...and if your running comps is that your point...i would have thought a cromo drive flange, say 4140, would be the go.....

Serg

GQ and GU's have only 2 types of hubs, Auto and Manual.

Auto ones have the option for auto mode (lock in when you throw it into 4WD through a cam system), great if your just going through some water or something, but they unlock if you roll backwards until they ramp up again, they can be locked into a proper lock mode but there extremely weak compared to the manuals

Manual's are extremely strong, strongest hub by far, seen Toyota 80's blow their hubs where GQ and GU's haven't on the same tracks and putting down even more power than a 80.

Nissan's done come in Permanent 4x4 so they don't have the permanent locked in hubs, that's why Nissan drivers use manual free wheeling hubs

MyGQ wrote:GQ and GU's have only 2 types of hubs, Auto and Manual.

Auto ones have the option for auto mode (lock in when you throw it into 4WD through a cam system), great if your just going through some water or something, but they unlock if you roll backwards until they ramp up again, they can be locked into a proper lock mode but there extremely weak compared to the manuals

Manual's are extremely strong, strongest hub by far, seen Toyota 80's blow their hubs where GQ and GU's haven't on the same tracks and putting down even more power than a 80.

Nissan's done come in Permanent 4x4 so they don't have the permanent locked in hubs, that's why Nissan drivers use manual free wheeling hubs

permanent or part time doesnt matter, there is absolutely no reason the comp guys, or daily drivers could not run a solid drive flange... yes i know the front tyres would turn the cv's, axles, diff and propshaft but it wouldnt matter to the transmissionas its not conected at the transfer case.

just means that all those moving parts are moving and being lubricated like they should....

Serg

you ever driven with a busted CV and left the wheels locked in? it isnt easy or fun if youve blowen the CV.

but if you want drive flanges speak to greg as he makes them for the GQs.

greg if you hate GUs so much why have you got GU swivel balls and drive shit on the back of the truck with your engine?

Dont go any older than 1998 patrol diffs. To save money if you get the turbo diesel 3.0 diffs you will get 4.3 ratios. The nissan GU diffs are very strong and you dont have to muck around upgrading anything in them. By going the GU diffs 1998 onwards you will get far superior bracking than an old clapped out 60 series diff. The GU diffs are wider aswell which will give you better stability. You will pay no more than $3000 for the pair complete with low k,s.

LudaCris

1MadEngineer wrote:GU H260 rear 37 spline, toyota 60 series front.

a 60 series front with $300 welded/ringed cv's will be stronger than a GQ or GU. Even upgrading to CAL chromo cv's the locking hubs will fail at ~5000ft/lb whereas a toyota with stock Aisan locking hubs is good for ~8000ft/lb.

Are you kidding / drunk / having memory loss?
You see Toyotas breaking CVs / axles in just about every comp in OZ. I can't remember ever seeing a GU break.
No offence intended but engineering calcs sometimes don't match real world results.

1MadEngineer wrote:GU H260 rear 37 spline, toyota 60 series front.

a 60 series front with $300 welded/ringed cv's will be stronger than a GQ or GU. Even upgrading to CAL chromo cv's the locking hubs will fail at ~5000ft/lb whereas a toyota with stock Aisan locking hubs is good for ~8000ft/lb.

What are these welded/ringed CV's for a 60 and where are they from?

cheers

are nissan axles full floating?

Serg

uninformed wrote:are nissan axles full floating?

Serg

Nope - semi floating.

Daisy wrote:

uninformed wrote:are nissan axles full floating?

Serg

Nope - semi floating.

im guessing this makes it harder to change cv's/axles in the field???

serg

uninformed wrote:

Daisy wrote:

uninformed wrote:are nissan axles full floating?

Serg

Nope - semi floating.

im guessing this makes it harder to change cv's/axles in the field???

serg

Umm no?? all front axles are full floaters

Turoa wrote:

uninformed wrote:

Daisy wrote:

uninformed wrote:are nissan axles full floating?

Serg

Nope - semi floating.

im guessing this makes it harder to change cv's/axles in the field???

serg

Umm no?? all front axles are full floaters

ok can someone confirm either way... this is the nisan section right???

Serg

fronts are all full floaters, rear H233 is semi floater, rear H260 is full floater

Cheers
Dave

thanks guys,

i had a look through the bible section. what i couldnt find was side by side specs of patrol axles diffs etc.

you could have front, rear, leaf, coil, axle dia, splin count, diff size, cv specs etc etc... lengths/widths.

that way you can see whats what when you want to do something custom or upgrade, or even if its worth upgrading....

would help the rover and toyota guys too, as they know the nissan stuff is strong haha

Serg(a rover guy)

chunderlicious wrote:you ever driven with a busted CV and left the wheels locked in? it isnt easy or fun if youve blowen the CV.

but if you want drive flanges speak to greg as he makes them for the GQs.

greg if you hate GUs so much why have you got GU swivel balls and drive shit on the back of the truck with your engine?

Mate, you know what i am like, i'm not a fan of a brand, i am a fan of engineering! hey if lada's had 500hp and dana60's i would be driven one. I have the GU fronts for research and development work. I am trying to find a way of upgrading them to be as strong as the hilux drivetrain we are running currently. Thats why we punish micks truck so much! he has to keep up with us.....

1MadEngineer wrote:

chunderlicious wrote:you ever driven with a busted CV and left the wheels locked in? it isnt easy or fun if youve blowen the CV.

but if you want drive flanges speak to greg as he makes them for the GQs.

greg if you hate GUs so much why have you got GU swivel balls and drive shit on the back of the truck with your engine?

Mate, you know what i am like, i'm not a fan of a brand, i am a fan of engineering! hey if lada's had 500hp and dana60's i would be driven one. I have the GU fronts for research and development work. I am trying to find a way of upgrading them to be as strong as the hilux drivetrain we are running currently. Thats why we punish micks truck so much! he has to keep up with us.....

so what drive train is "the hilux" running... cause if its hilux axles im betting they are stuffed with cromo gear... if they are D60 or something else could you be specific...

comparing stock to stock i would have to think the GU stuff is up there and alot easier to get than D60's... now why not get some 300m or hytuf axles made and some same for cv's... i bet cromo gu would be fairly strong..

but anything is strong compared to rover....at least my 110 has a sals rear.

Serg

Daisy wrote:

uninformed wrote:are nissan axles full floating?

Serg

Nope - semi floating.

Umm there is a Nissan full floating rear, rare as hens teeth, we saw one on the rear of a Nissan GQ based Ambulance in QLD.
Anyways, they don't break so no need for them to be full floating, full floaters are for quick axle swaps if you expect to do a lot of them
Anyway, without the OP mentioning a powerplant, I'd suspect even MQ diffs would be bulletproof to any Hilux motor. 50% more money spent on GU rather than GQ for 10% more strength may be a waste in this application.
Hows the standard Toyo box going to handle the xtra load?

uninformed wrote:i would have thought if you were running comps and serious you would be getting 300m or hytuf axles made anyway...

1- so whats the ring dia on the front of a gu v a 60?
2 - what are the stock axle dia front gu v 60?
3 - what are the cv bell sizes front gu v 60?
4 - what is the cv stub shaft dia front gu v 60?

whats the track width for gu v 60?
whats the break comparison for front gu v 60?

Serg

1: GU 233mm - 60 241.3mm carrier bearings are 50mm on toyotas which allow the side gears to be swapped to suit 35spline dana, nissans run a smaller ID carrier bearing.
2: STOCK GU/GQ and 60 have the same necked diameter, as std cv inner races are interchangeable between toyota and nissan.
3 - cv bell size on a GU is larger than toyota 60, but similar to 80 series, this is were the $$ comes into it - CAL cv's are ~$1600+, Longfields are ~$1000. Now add this to the diff cost - GU front - $1000-$1500, Toy60 $250-$400, and it make a BIG difference.
4 - CV stub diameter Nissans are 1.8mm smaller in the stub diameter, which is why transplanting Longfields is not easily possible. the outer wheel bearings on nissans are smaller.

Even a GQ with the best CV's available is still no match for a fully built toyota, i am sorry to say. If you think different, then you are welcome to show me. We have NEVER blown a Longfield and regularly do 4000rpm FULL-lock front diggs on 37" comp spec tires. Our other team member has literally the best you can get in nissan stuff and he is still carefull when doing front diggs. But he will gladly demonstrate HOW strong stock front hubs are !! just come round and bring yours and he will blow them in 3 feet!!

Don't think i am just paying out on nissans FFS. I have spent countless hours working my butt off to find and develop the best stuff i can to get these beasts to there full potential. I am working on 4140 front drive flanges and billet locking hubs and hopefully (fingers crossed) a new and cheaper cv's upgrade for both GQ and GU (trying for under $1000 - including 4340 ALLOY USA axles). but i will know more after Xmas

i plan on using the standard axles cv an hub that are on the diffs all i will change is the crown wheel an pinion to a 4.8 to run the 35s and lockers

1MadEngineer wrote:

uninformed wrote:i would have thought if you were running comps and serious you would be getting 300m or hytuf axles made anyway...

1- so whats the ring dia on the front of a gu v a 60?
2 - what are the stock axle dia front gu v 60?
3 - what are the cv bell sizes front gu v 60?
4 - what is the cv stub shaft dia front gu v 60?

whats the track width for gu v 60?
whats the break comparison for front gu v 60?

Serg

1: GU 233mm - 60 241.3mm carrier bearings are 50mm on toyotas which allow the side gears to be swapped to suit 35spline dana, nissans run a smaller ID carrier bearing.
2: STOCK GU/GQ and 60 have the same necked diameter, as std cv inner races are interchangeable between toyota and nissan.
3 - cv bell size on a GU is larger than toyota 60, but similar to 80 series, this is were the $$ comes into it - CAL cv's are ~$1600+, Longfields are ~$1000. Now add this to the diff cost - GU front - $1000-$1500, Toy60 $250-$400, and it make a BIG difference.
4 - CV stub diameter Nissans are 1.8mm smaller in the stub diameter, which is why transplanting Longfields is not easily possible. the outer wheel bearings on nissans are smaller.

Even a GQ with the best CV's available is still no match for a fully built toyota, i am sorry to say. If you think different, then you are welcome to show me. We have NEVER blown a Longfield and regularly do 4000rpm FULL-lock front diggs on 37" comp spec tires. Our other team member has literally the best you can get in nissan stuff and he is still carefull when doing front diggs. But he will gladly demonstrate HOW strong stock front hubs are !! just come round and bring yours and he will blow them in 3 feet!!

Don't think i am just paying out on nissans FFS. I have spent countless hours working my butt off to find and develop the best stuff i can to get these beasts to there full potential. I am working on 4140 front drive flanges and billet locking hubs and hopefully (fingers crossed) a new and cheaper cv's upgrade for both GQ and GU (trying for under $1000 - including 4340 ALLOY USA axles). but i will know more after Xmas

good info,

can you run a 80 series cv in a 60?

what are the track widths wms-wms of the 60, gu and gq?

Serg

uninformed wrote:

1MadEngineer wrote:

uninformed wrote:i would have thought if you were running comps and serious you would be getting 300m or hytuf axles made anyway...

1- so whats the ring dia on the front of a gu v a 60?
2 - what are the stock axle dia front gu v 60?
3 - what are the cv bell sizes front gu v 60?
4 - what is the cv stub shaft dia front gu v 60?

whats the track width for gu v 60?
whats the break comparison for front gu v 60?

Serg

1: GU 233mm - 60 241.3mm carrier bearings are 50mm on toyotas which allow the side gears to be swapped to suit 35spline dana, nissans run a smaller ID carrier bearing.
2: STOCK GU/GQ and 60 have the same necked diameter, as std cv inner races are interchangeable between toyota and nissan.
3 - cv bell size on a GU is larger than toyota 60, but similar to 80 series, this is were the $$ comes into it - CAL cv's are ~$1600+, Longfields are ~$1000. Now add this to the diff cost - GU front - $1000-$1500, Toy60 $250-$400, and it make a BIG difference.
4 - CV stub diameter Nissans are 1.8mm smaller in the stub diameter, which is why transplanting Longfields is not easily possible. the outer wheel bearings on nissans are smaller.

Even a GQ with the best CV's available is still no match for a fully built toyota, i am sorry to say. If you think different, then you are welcome to show me. We have NEVER blown a Longfield and regularly do 4000rpm FULL-lock front diggs on 37" comp spec tires. Our other team member has literally the best you can get in nissan stuff and he is still carefull when doing front diggs. But he will gladly demonstrate HOW strong stock front hubs are !! just come round and bring yours and he will blow them in 3 feet!!

Don't think i am just paying out on nissans FFS. I have spent countless hours working my butt off to find and develop the best stuff i can to get these beasts to there full potential. I am working on 4140 front drive flanges and billet locking hubs and hopefully (fingers crossed) a new and cheaper cv's upgrade for both GQ and GU (trying for under $1000 - including 4340 ALLOY USA axles). but i will know more after Xmas

good info,

can you run a 80 series cv in a 60?

what are the track widths wms-wms of the 60, gu and gq?

Serg

no an 80 cv won't fit a lux/60 swivel ball, a gq will fit as well. the inside dia of a GU swivel ball is 122.6mm and an 80 ball is 125.2mm inside (which can run a HD 1350 u-joint FYI).

Does this thread give anyone else a technochubby?

bogged wrote:Does this thread give anyone else a technochubby?

damn i sound like a nerd with all the dimensions!!

1MadEngineer wrote:

bogged wrote:Does this thread give anyone else a technochubby?

damn i sound like a nerd with all the dimensions!!

I sometimes think you need to get a life.
But then I realise how much time and energy you save the rest of us and just say thank you when you get carried away!