Outer Limits 4x4 Board

On a thread I just finished reading, most everyone was bagin ally bullbars.

Why is this, they are light, bend which is what they are designed to do so as to protect the thin chassy rails, and are light.

To me they make perfect sence, steel on a lil toy is too heavy and too strong.

I had one on me F150, hit a few things pretty hard, never bent.

Not lookin for a blue, just interested in the bad side of ally.

I've had both. In the sand or the snow I'd be happy with alloy if it was designed to help with approach angles and reduced weight but in the bush I prefer steel so that when I accidentally hit some large, immovable object or go down a bit of a drop off and land nose first as I have done I know I can still drive away where in the same situations the alloy bar will just fold back and foul the tyres, allow the radiator to be damaged and more bodywork damage etc. to occur. Just my opinion.

Couple of reasons..
Ally is no good to attach a winch to.
Who wants a bullbar on a Sierra anyway.
Hit anything big/solid enough to bend the bar and your going to damage lots of other bits too.

Jas.

It depends on why you want a bullbar I guess.

My parents jeep has alloy, and its perfect for what the car gets used for. The bullbar is a spot light mount, and can be used to hold a fishing rod rack. Steel is not needed here.

I have a steel one on my Sierra. I chose steel primarily because it can take a hiding, it is easy to fabricate things with (I made my own, buying one was never an option for me), it has good fatigue properties (this is a poor feature of aluminium), My front bar has recovery points incorporated into it, and especially because steel is very repairable. Also steel is more environmentally friendly.

I actually think alumium is a poor choice. What I mean here is that If alumium is a suitable choice for the vehicle, I would prefer poly over alumium. The things I like about poly is it doesn't need polishing, it never rusts or corrodes, it can be made to have essentially the same properties as alumium bars, or you can go lighter for the loss of some strength which may not be needed. My one issue with poly ones, is most of the ones on the market are so bloody ugly!

The big problem with aluminium is that it fatigues. In the "one big hit" scenario it might be fine, but in the "lots of little taps" use that a bar gets in the bush, they tend to crack around the mounts. (or crack generally)
This has nothing to do with the tensile strength of the material nad very little to do with the thickness used.

also, sadly, most aluminium bullbars seem to be designed for show with poor design.

If an exact copy of an ARB bar was made in alloy, I have a feeling it would be quite good, but sadly, more expensive than the steel version, and unsuitable for winching or recovery, so there would be no real advantage.

Steel for the bush IMHO.

Steve.

I can fathom all the sed reasons, no dramas, but where I live, Coffin Bay, we have lots of silly skippys, and even less smart emus, fact they come into my yard n eat my grass and drink the water I leave out for them.

Driving at night, even slow, like 30k in town is a dangerous thing sorta, you risk a bump, so a bar is important, I have ally on both me suzis, chosen for the lightness, and so far, touch wood, never needed on me toys.

I did not think the lightness of the suzi would have required a steel bar, in a decent prang, no drama, steel bull bar all good, rails of car, shot n bent to hell n back.

I have been at sea since i was 14, and on many an ally boat, these are good for about 30 years before fatigue sets in.

They are great for whinching, all you need is some pop rivets, just ask nueralfibere lol

aluminium boats would not be subjected to the same sort of fatigue issues a bull bar would. They aren't attached via relatively small mounting points to a stronger object. They also don't have leverage points like these mounting brackets basically are.

Steel for me ARB in this case.

ive used it a few times on roos and foxes, saved the front of the zook

Strength for weight aluminium is far above steel, and as for fatigue, you would have to hit millions of things for it to be a real consideration in bar design....

Other than cost, there is nothing wrong with using aluminium for a bullbar.
The Problem is that alot of aluminium bars are made for looks or just to mount stuff on. Find a bar made from nice thick plate and you wont have a problem.

there are many designs...some great...some bad. the ultimate reason for a steel or alloy bar is how much of the vehicle do you want to repair after an incident. alloy bars will deform very quickly, usually wrapping around the vehicle and more often than not i've seen them create more damage than if there was no bar there. with steel you will be able to hit a roo etc...and still be able to drive the vehicle, not so the case with something of lighter construction. yes they can be heavy, mainly on larger vehicles, but an arb bar on a sierra really doesn't weigh all that much in fact a warn 9000lb winch is heavier. all depends on what you intend to use it for and if you value your sheetmetal.

david123 wrote:.

I have been at sea since i was 14, and on many an ally boat, these are good for about 30 years before fatigue sets in.

i have also seen plate ally boats cracked to bits after being towed on corrugated dirt roads.

want33s wrote:Couple of reasons..
Ally is no good to attach a winch to.
Who wants a bullbar on a Sierra anyway.

I want a bull bar, cause it saves shit loads of front end body damage in the bush!! Plus an alloy bullbar can quite easily have a winch mounted to it.. just need to make a cradle type set up for the winch to sit in, which also bolts/attaches to the chassis.. plenty of them getting about!

grimbo wrote:aluminium boats would not be subjected to the same sort of fatigue issues a bull bar would. They aren't attached via relatively small mounting points to a stronger object. They also don't have leverage points like these mounting brackets basically are.

Sorry mate, the sea is a pretty unforgiving mistress, and demands the best.

I do understand the small mounting points point but.

A well made ally boat is good for many years of savage work, marine grade is series 5,000 dunno what bars are made of.

I just put one on me vitara and drilled some holes for the spottys, pretty frigin hard.

I do like aluminum, so does every trucky out there.

Weight for weight, ally is far stronger than steel.

Friggin shiny and reflects the spotys bad, so I use tape on the top to dull the reflection.

if you went to a proper aluminium fabrication place with an ARB bar and said "copy this" knowing they'd use the appropriate wall thickness and grade of aluminium for the job, then i'd say sure, go for it...

i had an ally bar on my zuk when i got it, hitting a shopping trolley at about 30km/hr (dont ask) put a MASSIVE bend in the bar, the whole bar warped and a crack eventually appeared on the weld closest to the ding... that said though, the factory front bumper and my alloy bar weighed nearly as much as the bar im running now, which is steel.

Alloy is far weaker in a bullbar application IMO. My commercial alloy bar bent and significantly dented the bottom tube hitting a head sized loose rock at around 5km/h, and one of the chassis bolt mounting holes has sheared through. Plenty of edge distance on the bolt holes too.

Mine's getting the flick for a custom steel bar once I've got myself a welder.

steel is better for repeated collisions, when we do ram raids we tend to go for steel over ally, that way if it takes more than one hit then you know the bars up to it.

mrRocky wrote:when we do ram raids

dodgy much? lol

The thing is, you could design an alloy bar to far outperform a steel bar by using forgings for all the technical connections, heat treatment etc, but the bar will would cost more than the whole car.

I challenge that it takes "millions" of hits to fatigue aluminium - The tray on my sierra is really really fatiged, and the alloy bar on my Gwagen was a mess- it was cracking up badly.

when I'm out in the bush i seem to clip my bar on stuff all the time - It's never got paint on the edges and it's got gouges all over the corners. aluminium will not cope well with this kind of use.

Funny - I was following an old jackeroo today that had an alloy rear bar and it had had a lightish hit in the centre - and had a massive crack at the impact site.

Steve.

If people want an example of aluminium fatigue, take a look at your transfer cases or gearboxes next time you pull one out for a rebuild or new gears. It scares the crap out of some people just how many crack lines are in these cases.

david123 wrote:

grimbo wrote:aluminium boats would not be subjected to the same sort of fatigue issues a bull bar would. They aren't attached via relatively small mounting points to a stronger object. They also don't have leverage points like these mounting brackets basically are.

Sorry mate, the sea is a pretty unforgiving mistress, and demands the best.

I do understand the small mounting points point but.

A well made ally boat is good for many years of savage work, marine grade is series 5,000 dunno what bars are made of.

I just put one on me vitara and drilled some holes for the spottys, pretty frigin hard.

I do like aluminum, so does every trucky out there.

Weight for weight, ally is far stronger than steel.

Friggin shiny and reflects the spotys bad, so I use tape on the top to dull the reflection.

Never said a aluminium boat doesn't get pounded. Just said it gets a completely different sort of fatigue. it woul dbe subjected to lots of force over a much larger surface area compared to a small bull bar. Hence why it is used so successfully in boat design for example.

An aluminium tinny might last forever in the water but put it on a rack on a trailer and run corrugations and it will break up where the rack is in contact with it.

You can make a great boat out of wood, but a wood bullbar wouldn't be much chop.

You just can't compare suitable materials for one application and apply them to another application.

Steve.

I tend to use alloy suzuki bull bars for ram raids. you only get 1 ram out of them which is fine becouse there is a large supply of them in QLD backyards. can take them and its months untill anyone even notices!!!

Jacked wrote:I tend to use alloy suzuki bull bars for ram raids. you only get 1 ram out of them which is fine becouse there is a large supply of them in QLD backyards. can take them and its months untill anyone even notices!!!

GOLD

alien wrote:

mrRocky wrote:when we do ram raids

dodgy much? lol

He's from Lockridge???

Well fellas if yu dont want your alloy bars and your in melb let me know im chasing one.

IMHO i think it all depends on what you plan on doing
just for instance you are doing heaps of mud bog holes what would be better steel/alloy
hill climbing steel/alloy
bashing through light scrub and somewhere to mount spot lights on This is what i want it for im not after strength just looks

And you know what im going to paint it all black too (Pretend steel)pmsl

IMHO "bashing though light scrub" is exactly when you want a steel bar - s few heavier stumps/logs in the scrub and that's when you start getting into the small hits/knocks that fatigue an alloy bar.

You don't need a bullbar for mud, unless you start pinballing to banks.... then see my point above.

Hillclimbing- steel- the extra weight over the front end won't hurt at all.

Can you tell I'm not a fan of alloy?

Steve.

like i said IMO i would only go alloy because i dont plan on having a winch
if i was to have a winch i would get steel.

Another thing, Why does everyone say you cant have an alloy bullbar and a winch cause you are full of SH!T i have seen many alloy bars with winch's as they are mounted to a steel framing/plate that is bolted to chassis behind the alloy bar

I have an alloy bar on my patrol hit a roo doing bout 80-90kmph and nothing wrong with it


I had a steel one on my zook hit a large boulder pretty hard bent my lhf spring and folded the front bar down, so steel isnt all that good sometimes

it all depends on the disigne of the bar, my mate hit a roo doing about 60ks and it snaped his alloy bar in 3 places, and still recked his grill ,the surounding metal, front gared and front flare all from the alloy bar pushing into it, where if he had a steal bar im sure he wouldent have done half the damage, personly if i was to put a bull bar on any car it would be a steal one, like my mate dident intend to use the bull bar for anything other than to hold driveing lights and erials but now he wished he got a steal one cos what he had to pay to get new panels and grill etc he could of spent on a decent steal bar instead, you never no when thay will come in handy.





cheers scott