Outer Limits 4x4 Board

What is the cheapest way to come by these puppies?

There appears to be a few f250s in the Trading post for about 3k.

Is it that easy or am I missing something.

cheers bru

Are you 100% sure that an F250 front diff is D60? IIRC some of them were D60 rear and D50(same size CW&P but way smaller axels) fronts.

Prices on them seem to vary greatly. I have heard as much as $6K for a steer diff , but there have been others that come across them for a fraction of that.

Maybe try a PM to StrangeRover. He seems to be able to lay his hands on them with relative ease (and a fark load of looking around).

Its something I really know nothing about, thanks for the reply.

78-79 f250's (ie the ones for $3K) are AFAIK the "highboy" 250's which had canadian 6's, SPOA leaf all around and these definitely had D60 rears but D44 fronts. (I've looked at a few) I think anything delievered new in aus with a D60 front will be like rocking horse poo, be 30+ years old and probably have small axles and all the less attractive stuff like kingpins not balljoints etc.

The later (1980's) F 350's as used by telstra etc back in the day were TTB IFS with leaves and I don't know what diff, but I think it was a Dana 50.

Current F250's run a Dana 50 which is apparently no stronger in the axles than a D44. They also have some other wierd uniqueness that makes them an unhelpful swapped in axle like stud pattern, unit bearings and horrid steering setup.

Dodge 4X4 trucks ran D60 fronts, but from memory they are closed knuckle like M715 Jeeps, run drums and a wierd stud pattern.

one source for a D60 front would be from an OKA, if you can find a wrecked one. I recall seeing OKA axle sets in Dana's factory in vic in the mid 1990's. They were 60 front, 70 or 80 rear (can't recall) and have big discs etc. they are 8 lug though IIRC.

Steve.

Thanks mate,

rapidly becoming an exercise in patience!

cheers bru

Gwagensteve wrote:78-79 f250's (ie the ones for $3K) are AFAIK the "highboy" 250's which had canadian 6's, SPOA leaf all around and these definitely had D60 rears but D44 fronts. (I've looked at a few) I think anything delievered new in aus with a D60 front will be like rocking horse poo, be 30+ years old and probably have small axles and all the less attractive stuff like kingpins not balljoints etc.

The later (1980's) F 350's as used by telstra etc back in the day were TTB IFS with leaves and I don't know what diff, but I think it was a Dana 50.

Current F250's run a Dana 50 which is apparently no stronger in the axles than a D44. They also have some other wierd uniqueness that makes them an unhelpful swapped in axle like stud pattern, unit bearings and horrid steering setup.

Dodge 4X4 trucks ran D60 fronts, but from memory they are closed knuckle like M715 Jeeps, run drums and a wierd stud pattern.

one source for a D60 front would be from an OKA, if you can find a wrecked one. I recall seeing OKA axle sets in Dana's factory in vic in the mid 1990's. They were 60 front, 70 or 80 rear (can't recall) and have big discs etc. they are 8 lug though IIRC.

Steve.

I have a family friend with an OKA here in wangaratta .. it is 60 front and back.

if you want to import

http://extremeaxlesales.com/

shipping would be a killer on a pair of 60,s

PS fords are all passenger side diffs, GM and driver's side.

I would have thought you'd want a lighter diff for speed than a 60 in an otherwise light chassis - the tail will be wagging the dog IMH) - have a look at the KOH cars in the speed sections.

Steve.

Yeap, go spider 9's

Or a H260, cruiser rear or somehing with spider9 outers?

Steve.

spider 9's would be a bad idea! especially for what BRU intends on using them for.

All the desert racer guys will recommend diamond axles over any other, and they will also tell you that solid axle front ends are not the way to go!
Get a AAM 9.25! for the front and a Diamond 9" for the rear.

i do know of other cheaper options

Hey mate, I have a complete (built) set of 60's for sale. They are Dynatrac D60's, with chromo axles, ARB lockers, etc etc..

Here's a pic of the diffs I had.. they were running in my rock crawler buggy..



also have these wheels and tyres available for them

Thanks fellas.

all good options, not quite in my budget though!

Might have to opt for gu's just to get the minimum weight vs centre strength vs width vs $$$ and be like everybody else.

I never broke a gu in the past either with similar hp and double the weight.

cheers bru

I'll add too - the reason for the sudden d60 ideas is a birdy told me

if 5 buggies in cliffhanger then some KOH style tracks will be included!

1MadEngineer wrote:
i do know of other cheaper options

cheaper options please!!!

I was going to build my 80s diffs, but not sure the centre is up to it, and it will work out a lot dearer the way the us dollar is.

cheers bru

bru21 wrote:

1MadEngineer wrote:
i do know of other cheaper options

cheaper options please!!!

I was going to build my 80s diffs, but not sure the centre is up to it, and it will work out a lot dearer the way the us dollar is.

cheers bru

why don't you go the route of the 80 diffs, with chronmo longs and a GQ center grafted in the front?

The only thing I'll point out regarding using cheaper and weaker equipment is the failure rate when used in a competition application.

You see it all the time with buggies, the guys with the D60's and similar gear drive the whole weekend and very rarely have diff related breakages. Guys running GQ/GU or 60/80 series with chromo gear still smash centres, snap axles/CVs etc.

There is a big difference in a competitive application for these diffs. I can say I never broke anything on my D60's in the time competing in the buggy. The only drama I had was a slightly twisted spline on a front axles when I had factory axles in it, prior to going to 4340.

I have experience with putting GQ diffs into a competitive vehicle. Back when I was running the Jeep I put GQ diffs under it and was somewhat disappointed with their strength.

Just something for you to consider, because I know a lot of guys who have built things with cheaper options and have either re-spent the money buying stronger gear later or are continually frustrated that they are not finishing stages and are under their vehicle repairing things at the end of every stage.

Out of curiosity, what's your budget to put diffs under your vehicle?

as for budget, I've spent about 25k so far but am reluctant to keep putting money into this thing. I am thinking of running gu's and putting bigger diffs in later. This is not a rock buggy and will be for play and off road racing. I have seen many rigs win championships with gq rears (2wd), but thought as it was 4x4 gu would be better.

As this is getting registered I want to get it done sooner rather than later which mean less time saving for parts and for diffs a max of 4k at this stage.

I would love the built 60's but cannot afford them at this stage.

cheers bru

`maddog wrote:You see it all the time with buggies, the guys with the D60's and similar gear drive the whole weekend and very rarely have diff related breakages. Guys running GQ/GU or 60/80 series with chromo gear still smash centres, snap axles/CVs etc.

I've been to about five rock crawling competitions and seen D60's break at three of them





Pretty sure I have seen someone break the Japanese stuff at all five though

Wendle wrote:

`maddog wrote:You see it all the time with buggies, the guys with the D60's and similar gear drive the whole weekend and very rarely have diff related breakages. Guys running GQ/GU or 60/80 series with chromo gear still smash centres, snap axles/CVs etc.

I've been to about five rock crawling competitions and seen D60's break at three of them





Pretty sure I have seen someone break the Japanese stuff at all five though

haha you're a mog-lover tho They're not a bad diff either.

The only D60's I recall breaking is Pip smashing R&P at full throttle out of his 350, same with Mooney when his throttle stuck and Adrian broke a CTM I think when his steering let go and over-extended the knuckle. In comparison to the number of GQ/GU/60 series/80 Series/Hilux diffs I've seen destroyed, it's pretty minimal. I don't even think I've seen Gonads break one, and we all know how he drives

`maddog wrote:

Wendle wrote:

`maddog wrote:You see it all the time with buggies, the guys with the D60's and similar gear drive the whole weekend and very rarely have diff related breakages. Guys running GQ/GU or 60/80 series with chromo gear still smash centres, snap axles/CVs etc.

I've been to about five rock crawling competitions and seen D60's break at three of them





Pretty sure I have seen someone break the Japanese stuff at all five though

haha you're a mog-lover tho They're not a bad diff either.

The only D60's I recall breaking is Pip smashing R&P at full throttle out of his 350, same with Mooney when his throttle stuck and Adrian broke a CTM I think when his steering let go and over-extended the knuckle. In comparison to the number of GQ/GU/60 series/80 Series/Hilux diffs I've seen destroyed, it's pretty minimal. I don't even think I've seen Gonads break one, and we all know how he drives

guys a D44 would be an upgrade for most winch trucks
hey they run STOCK GU's which have the SAME inner axle size as STOCK hilux.... hahahaha. There 'fuse' ATM is the pissweak factory locking hubs, they are barely good for ~4500-5000ft/lb where-as the AISIN hubs will take nearly 8000ft'lb.
With aftermarket C's so cheap why not put some beefy kingping outers on Toyota 60series housing and get the 35spline ARB side gears to suit, then run Longfield D60 cv's!! That way R&P's are cheap as and can easily be changed in the field, and spares available everywhere.

or buy maddogs!!

Can you get a 35 spline axle through the side of the ARB to suit a toyota i think you would have to machine out the sides thous reducing the wall thickness where the bearing is mounted which could be a problem.
Also the air galery runs thought one of those spindles so you may also run into problems there. i thought about this option when i was looking at going to D60's but ended up with complete units from Solid axle which are a great product. They also offer all the parts you require to put D60 outers on to any other diff you like.

dave wrote:Can you get a 35 spline axle through the side of the ARB to suit a toyota i think you would have to machine out the sides thous reducing the wall thickness where the bearing is mounted which could be a problem.
Also the air galery runs thought one of those spindles so you may also run into problems there. i thought about this option when i was looking at going to D60's but ended up with complete units from Solid axle which are a great product. They also offer all the parts you require to put D60 outers on to any other diff you like.

they were available as a proper part#, they are only available for the 50mmID bearing ones. Yes the ID has to be opened up a little (about 1.8mm if i remember correctly) Nissans need heaps more which makes them a little thin IMO.


BRU the other option is NM-NS pajero IRS center section. RD155 ARB, and use D60 outers as IFS..... another option.

1MadEngineer wrote:
BRU the other option is NM-NS pajero IRS center section. RD155 ARB, and use D60 outers as IFS..... another option.

Speak up!!!

getting the front driveshaft to would mean raising the motor with the shaft underneath or a V drive!

I want live axles for playing around as well as knocking 6mths off the build.

As for racing - I am there to have fun not kill myself. one of the class one boys was clocked at 270km/ph .... not my seen!!!

When I went to the finke (or baja) - I was surprised just how average some vehicles were, no offence to anyone - but, I am sure a live axle buggy could come bottom to mid pack overall (finke). Fine by me!!

Is Gu stuff (or even the 80s I already have dressed and bracket free, ready to go)really that bad?!?!?. Not talking rock buggies here, or KOH but I can't see how a 1400kg car running 35's will brake them in my application. As I said 2wd with gq rears seem to survive?

The build starts this friday (knock off work) so I need to have a plan in place.

Lastly would Building a passenger side front out of a gu or 80s be as easy as cutting the balls off flipping the diff, 2 hours with the tig and unbolt / rebolt the centre upside down. Can a gu or 80s center simply go on upside down (making it the correct way up). I can still get this Atlas cheap and it bugs me to dismiss it as its a pass drop. I like the idea of greater drivers floor area, and easier access to the starter. What about the increase in unspung weight having the center at the panhard / drag end increasing bump steer?

cheers bru

If you get a set of longs for the front 80serries diff and some good axles made for the rear it will hold up fine for what your doing. The front diff centre would become a problem if you were to start doing rock crawl events but you said thats not really your plain.
I run a 60 serries front diff and an 80 rear in my buggy for nearly 2 years and never brock a centre. I was running longs in the front and did brake a few but was also running weight in the tryes and giving them a hard time. I also had custom rear axles with drive flanges wich proved to be pretty reliable, i only broke 2 in two rears but once again they copped a flogging.

I would also brace both diff up real good so you dont bend them especially if you plain on high speen where the car could see a little air at times.

dave wrote:If you get a set of longs for the front 80serries diff and some good axles made for the rear it will hold up fine for what your doing. The front diff centre would become a problem if you were to start doing rock crawl events but you said thats not really your plain.
I run a 60 serries front diff and an 80 rear in my buggy for nearly 2 years and never brock a centre. I was running longs in the front and did brake a few but was also running weight in the tryes and giving them a hard time. I also had custom rear axles with drive flanges wich proved to be pretty reliable, i only broke 2 in two rears but once again they copped a flogging.

^^^^ like dave said.
why are you even considering a GU?? is it just the width? cus it certainly isn't strength. A 'Built' toyota is nearly as strong as a stock 35spline D60, but it doesn't take much to get a D60 waaaaaaay in front.

As you are chasing pass drop, (and width i gather) and you will be doing a bit of fab work, why don't you get a 60series REAR and weld on lux/60 swivel balls. Mega cheap and gives you heaps of width and pass drop (total cost under $300) then you can run TG 6shooter knucles, 30spline longs and custom inners. All cheap and easily attainable. No point using 80 stuff as the 8" center is borderline on strength and limited steering options. Nissan is also just as hard with no real steering options or upgrades (MQ knucles - wow what an upgrade ).

Very valid points.

Is there any reason why I can't run 80s balls on a 60 rear?

would that be as strong as 60balls/60rear

I have 80 stuff here that owe me very little and the brakes are very sweet.

I know nothing at all about 60s stuff and I have never even so much as looked at one. I am assuming 80s balls are the same size as 60 balls?

really appreciate the help guys

Bru