Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hello all,

I am about to purchase a td 83 lwb patrol and am planning to get it in to offroad shape pretty soon im am looking for advice in which susspension tyres etc etc

I am looking to keep it quite road drivable because it will be my only car for a little while.

I am looking to update the tyres mabee 33 all terrains (anyone have a set)
I am looking to change the susspension so it will acommidate these (any advice appreciated - do I actually need to change it. I do need to keep ride quality)

Winch and front winchbar - it has a front bar but with no winch spot - can it be modified any one selling this sort of thing

Front and Rear difflocker - which ones, what compressor etc etc (second hand ones would be good)

New seats - what do people recomend

Is there any thing here i have missed

Would an bigger exhast make much differece (i heard 3 inch no mufflers??)

What about intercoolers

I have searched through this board and have been real impressed with all your advice

Hopfully when complete will see you at mount sugerloaf or tolangi soon

By the way I am in outer eastern victoria so if anyone has any of the mentioned parts yell out

_

come on peoples some one must have some ideas as to me doing the right thing or heading down the right track ttt

gettin the MQ/MK era patrol??

Why not a GQ?? - coils ride comfort??

Yer by the looks of your list you're on the right track with your ideas of mods.

TOM

yeh every one seems to think this but the way i see it is i want a diesel patrol lwb(ride comfort) and these seem to retail at about 10000 almost stock, the one i am looking at is posted in this forum but its 4000 and if i spend 6000 should be able to make a beast out of it even if it has no resale value i will be able to enjoy it - its hard to find a gq lwb in vic diesel under 10000. If it was posible to find one cheap and have money to do mods i would have done so

in my opinion go for a GQ.
even if you spend 6 on mods for the mq it will still only go as good as the stock gq

berazafi wrote: If it was posible to find one cheap and have money to do mods i would have done so

try the place on cnr of aster ave and frankston dande road, they had 8 GQ there the otehr day, NFI onpet/diesel..

Opinion wanted so here goes.

If u want to fit 33's only, u will only need 2 inch body lift to fit them. If u combine that with 2 inch springs u will have a nice amount of lift and average tyres.

Recaro buckte seats are easy enough to mod to fit em with regards to the seats.

Go ARB air lockers front and rear with the Compressor from the also. ( a front one may be very hard to get a hold of.

With regards to the bar work. U can get enginering mobs to strengthen the bar for a winch as long as its a steel one for a coupla hundred dollars or jsut get a new one........... Warn 8000 pound low mount will do ya there as well.

cheers,

Screwy

with the regard to the gq is that because of the coil suspension, im am not so woried about the power. is the leafs more robust than the coils???

coils are no only a softer ride by far but flex alot more too

screwy

Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:coils are no only a softer ride by far but flex alot more too

screwy

Oh and easier to install a huge lift.

Leaf springs limited by the amount of leafs on the spring.

Harsher ride with leaf springs.

Coils will nearly always outtravel leaf springs in suspension travel.

interesting thoughts ..... so why are 75%+ of the more extreme offroad rigs running leaf springs ?????
I'm not talking road registered here either ....rigs like BJ's etc .... any explanations are welcome !

GQ wrote:

Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:coils are no only a softer ride by far but flex alot more too

screwy

Oh and easier to install a huge lift.

Leaf springs limited by the amount of leafs on the spring.

Harsher ride with leaf springs.

Coils will nearly always outtravel leaf springs in suspension travel.

Another thing I dont understand is why does everyone mention suspension upgrades as soon as they mention 33" rubber ?????


MQs & MKs have a tyre plackard that says ....

750 X16 tyres.......
converted to inches that equals 33".

unless ya suspension is stuffed then why the worry?... I did NOT have to alter the suspension on little red and its sitting on 825 X 16 dunlops.

Kingy

You've got a point there mate.

Im probalby too biased towards coil suspension for their advantages, but i neglect to see the advantages of a leaf sprung car as well.

Driving a leaf sprung hilux gave me no enjoyments of the ride when offroad, But I guess u could say that the leafs could be softer etc.

Only one question. - Why do a fair bit of leaf sprung cars convert to coils?? articulation?? - seems to be the one of the few answers available to me at the moment.

Intersting discussion though.

V8Patrol wrote:interesting thoughts ..... so why are 75%+ of the more extreme offroad rigs running leaf springs ?????
I'm not talking road registered here either ....rigs like BJ's etc .... any explanations are welcome !

GQ wrote:

Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:coils are no only a softer ride by far but flex alot more too

screwy

Oh and easier to install a huge lift.

Leaf springs limited by the amount of leafs on the spring.

Harsher ride with leaf springs.

Coils will nearly always outtravel leaf springs in suspension travel.

Easist way to answer ya questions is like this...




I am looking to update the tyres mabee 33 all terrains (anyone have a set)
keep looking in the forsale section..

I am looking to change the susspension so it will acommidate these (any advice appreciated - do I actually need to change it. I do need to keep ride quality)
Dont need to change it unless you have a clearence problem, one person was offering a free fit n see if it clears in the general chitchat section if your unsure. ( may have to go back a few pages tho)

Winch and front winchbar - it has a front bar but with no winch spot - can it be modified any one selling this sort of thing
yes they can be modded , I'm about to mod 1 for screwy screwball

Front and Rear difflocker - which ones, what compressor etc etc (second hand ones would be good)
2nd hand units are scarce, get an ARB

New seats - what do people recomend
There's a place in Melb that sells cheap seats from imported cars, alternativly get em reupulstered ( expensive....about $800 for all of em)


Would an bigger exhast make much differece (i heard 3 inch no mufflers??)
3" will help but you will need a muffler ( its law )

What about intercoolers
not cheap but an efective way of gaining power/ecconomy/ and additional engine life.


this off course is just my opinion

GQ wrote:Only one question. - Why do a fair bit of leaf sprung cars convert to coils?? articulation?? - seems to be the one of the few answers available to me at the moment.

pretty well sums it up !!!!
Articulation is all the "GO", but most of us simply dont need that amount of flex...... the biggest hurdle with that much flex is still getting the power to the ground...... IE: sure all 4 wheels are touching the ground but are they bitting in enough to have any real traction ?

I've seen leaf sprung rigs with more height than you can get from a coil and with better flex aswell, the "ride quality" didnt suffer as it does in coil rigs....

I guess it comes down to what you want versus what you need !!!

Kingy

V8Patrol wrote:

GQ wrote:Only one question. - Why do a fair bit of leaf sprung cars convert to coils?? articulation?? - seems to be the one of the few answers available to me at the moment.

pretty well sums it up !!!!
Articulation is all the "GO", but most of us simply dont need that amount of flex...... the biggest hurdle with that much flex is still getting the power to the ground...... IE: sure all 4 wheels are touching the ground but are they bitting in enough to have any real traction ?

I've seen leaf sprung rigs with more height than you can get from a coil and with better flex aswell, the "ride quality" didnt suffer as it does in coil rigs....

I guess it comes down to what you want versus what you need !!!

Kingy

I get ya with that one, This is my new arguement with Ryan then.

He may have heaps of flex but he has almost no weight on the ground where it is flexing so therefore very little traction and mostly wheel slipping.

GOLD stuff!!!

Ill beat him yet

Screwy

V8patrol

Do you know the number of the import place

thanks for all the advice

I saw on an american site thats what they do with the exhast in america they say its not to loud - do you need a muffler for noise of just law

V8Patrol wrote:interesting thoughts ..... so why are 75%+ of the more extreme offroad rigs running leaf springs ?????
I'm not talking road registered here either ....rigs like BJ's etc .... any explanations are welcome !

40 series can be had for $1000, where GQ's are a few more $ could be one reason...?

I have five of these in storage at the moment that came off my MK SWB Patrol.

4 x 33/12.5/15 BFG A/T 70% tread and a fifth 33/12.5/15 Kumbo M/T as a spare.

These are mounted to five matching 15x8 CSA Mags. Come with all nuts and lock nuts and wheel caps to suit.

Tyres are in excellent condition no rips, tears or chipping of the tread pattern.

I am after $1350 for the five complete set.

been there done that with a MK & a mq, best of luck. Go the GQ. I spent shit loads, about $35000 including the 10,000 purchase price back in 96. Had the motor redone, twin locks blah blah blah blah. Now after having the gq i think - WHAT WAS I THINKING! Yes it went great, but nothing like the gq. Buy it but don't over capitalise on it. Keep the extra money for a GQ. That my opinion anyway. 33's even with a turbo need 4.6's. Is this what the one you r looking at has? best of luck with it anyway.

How would i find the ratio for the diff, yeh i get your point 10000 was my bujet and i think i can make a decent mq/mk out of it or i could by a stock gq and not even have a winch this is a new hobby for me not somthing im am looking at spending 30 or 40 k on but then again if i realy get into it i will do it in a few years any of you guys have any experiance in removing rust in these things i was thinking that rust stuff that turns rust into plastic then fibre glass im only hoping to keep it looking respectable for about 3 years

Thanks for all the for all the responses keep them comming if i post some pictures of my springs can you guys advise if there standard or not

I have to disagree with the fact that a turbo needs 4.6's to push 33's. I have a SD33 factory turbo and it would happily take off in second with 33's. I am now looking at 4.6 to get me back to what I had with 33's now that I am running 35's.

The 4.6 are more for offroad as on road manner with the larger tyres is pretty good.

But seeing as though it is an 83 I wonder if it is factory or after market turbo. Is it 5sp or 4sp ??????

factory turbo 5 speed

RMP&O wrote:

So I want to lift it 4", would like this to be all in the springs.

Do you have a source for springs to these vehicles over in the states?. I'm looking at lifting my own LWB MK, but the prices here in Norway are a bit to high for my taste, and import prices from australia turns too high due to freight costs. When looking at what one could buy a lift kit for to an american car, i sometimes regret not bying a blazer or similar in stead of the MK.
But then, the MK suits me better in size and fuel economy.

Jesus ppl ........


THINK OUTSIDE OF THE SQUARE !


There are literaly thousands of cars/4x4s/light trucks/heavy trucks lying around wrecker yards throughout the world.......

With that many spring pak options availiable the combinations are ENDLESS......

I just did a zook SOA and I used leaves from a 6x4 trailer kit to reset the suspension....... total cost was $ 65.00 and I had 4 leaves left over, Thats NEW springs too !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Measure what you need and head off to a wreckers yard and start searching...... who is gunna care if ya running a spring pak from a 1969 Chrysler Valiant so long as it works.

Kingy

I have a few things to interject...

a 7.50x16 tire and rim is not 33" tall. This is an old school measurement of tire but it was done this way. 16" rim + 7.50 sidewall times 2 sidewalls = 31" tire. Do the math I have a set of four 7.50x16 in the shop with 60% tread and they are a 31" tire. This applies to all old school tires sizes I have seen including the 8.25x16's on my Pinzgauer. The only exception being a Michelin XZL in 9.00x16 as the tire is 36" tall when it should be 34".

While you may be able to fit 33" tires on a stock leaf sprung MQ or even a stock GQ the benifits of a lift come from much more than fitting some larger tires. With a 7.50x16 on a old 60 series Patrol there is only about one inch of clearance under full compression so I know for a fact a 33" tire won't fit a G60 with out liftingor having custom bump stops. Yet the point is...Lifting brings up the whole truck besides the diffs. Oil pan, tranny, frame, body are all lifted so your clearance off road is all around increased by fitting lifted springs. While I agree many people think "lift kit" when wanting bigger tires the benifits of a lift are far from being just able to fit 33's.

While you are right Kingy about many types of springs working under a Patrol there is a sense of security that comes with buying a kit for a specific truck. Not only is it easiest to fit we feel secure that it will work well for our truck. This is the main reason so many companies sell lift kits and why so many kits are selling. Let's face it not everyone is as mechanically inclided as Kingy or some of you others. If it was simple to do fitting other springs and super easy suspension companies would be out of business. You have to understand how springs work, be able to measure things like camber and maybe even have some fabbing skills plus some tools (more than needed to fit a kit) before it becomes elementary. I also feel load should be considered when fitting springs so this takes an understanding of the vehicle in terms of distrobution of load and type of spring used to compliment this. While a kit may cost a lot it sure is nice to get one and bolt it up in less than a day with no problems...then be out the next day fully enjoying the new suspension. Not to mention many lift kits are not fitted by the owners of a truck who may just own a hammer, screw driver and cresent wrench for tools.

You're lucky, Kingy
Unfortunately, the norwegian vehicle approval authorities, who demands to approove the vehicle every second year, have a very tight "square" with razor sharp edges (at least in my part of the country):x
If they find anything out of original, and you can't produce manufacturer or otherwise unliable documentation, you'll likely pull your rig home on a trailer while the licendce plates remain in the "care" of the authorities.
I E if i weld new spring perches ontop of the axle tube doing a spring-over, they will never again approve that axle, because they will claim that any welding on suspension parts are illegal, hence the axle is illegal to use again. It's stupid as hell , but for us it's reality.
Some australian lift kits are TÜF-approved, but a 2-inch lift easily runs at 2500-3000 AUD, and it's just not in my budget at that price - at least not this year.
What the hell, i'll just have to emigrate, almost anywhere seems better than Norway when it comes to vehicle modifications

mine ran 14psi boost. With the twin lockers biting all the tyres in & climbing steep steep hills it was nowhere as goods as the 4.6's. Oh how I missed them. Was the worst mistake I did changing back to 4.3. But that was where i was playing so I needed them.

[quote="RMP&O"]I have a few things to interject...

a 7.50x16 tire and rim is not 33" tall. This is an old school measurement of tire but it was done this way. 16" rim + 7.50 sidewall times 2 sidewalls = 31" tire. Do the math I have a set of four 7.50x16 in the shop with 60% tread and they are a 31" tire. This applies to all old school tires sizes I have seen including the 8.25x16's on my Pinzgauer. The only exception being a Michelin XZL in 9.00x16 as the tire is 36" tall when it should be 34".

quote]

What does a 10.5R15 measure then? I always thought they were a 31" and my 7.50x16's were bigger diameter, maybe only 32 on the tape measure for a Road Gripper, but my 7.50x16 bar tread muddies were sertainly a bit bigger again.