Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi there, would really like to comp a Rover successfully, when i say successfully i mean WIN, as i hate to loose and would hate to embarrace rover owners and the like. If i were to comp a rover, could i have some ideas on which would be the best way and obviously having considderation for budjet. Should i considder working with what i have or selling up and starting again. I have what my signature states and also a 2 door 94 disco which i have partially wrecked and would be suitable for a grinder i suppose, but if i cut i need engineering yes?? what does the engineering cost as i saw a chopped disco on ebay and he claimed to have spent thousands on engineering??.
What about running gear, i have brocken mine plenty times in the rough stuff, mainly mounts and a couple axles but i am ruinning true tracks, but am thinking will need to do the pootrol thing and replace the diffs with nissan and or cruiser ones. What about suspension, dislocating springs or coil overs or even the air coils???
Any help be much appreciated, oh and at this stage am thinking total budjet of maybe $20,000 over 12 months if i sell my good one or $10.000 if i use my good one. I am thinking to start on the wreck and later selling my good one to finnish the other??

What type of comps?

Hi Slunnie, not really sure yet, have posted another thread about types of comps and the requirements for them but am thinking something like Tuff Trucks, not really interested in winch challenges just yet as it requires further costs, that can come later when every one wants to sponser the Rover that keeps beating the competition.
Am heading up to Landcruiser Park to check out the Tuff Tracks, this may be a good entry level type comp??

Slunnie wrote:What type of comps?

Cool, TT is big!

There is a new winch production class that is kicking off this year. Lowly modded trucks and winches and relatively economical.

TT..... The big ones are running probably $5k just in tyres.

It may also be worth looking into buggies for rock crawling.

have watched a couple rock crawls at Rover park, it seemed to me that there was big buck involved, most of the crawlers i saw seemed to be worth around $100K+

Would you run a comp truck on gas, my wrecking 2 door has 3.5 on gas, was thinking total rebuild on the 3.5 with gas in mind and utilising the gas system, mind you messing around with the old gas could be just as expensive as fitting new after rebates.

Slunnie wrote:Cool, TT is big!

There is a new winch production class that is kicking off this year. Lowly modded trucks and winches and relatively economical.

TT..... The big ones are running probably $5k just in tyres.

It may also be worth looking into buggies for rock crawling.

kitacooch wrote:have watched a couple rock crawls at Rover park, it seemed to me that there was big buck involved, most of the crawlers i saw seemed to be worth around $100K+

Would you run a comp truck on gas, my wrecking 2 door has 3.5 on gas, was thinking total rebuild on the 3.5 with gas in mind and utilising the gas system, mind you messing around with the old gas could be just as expensive as fitting new after rebates.

Really? I'll bow out of the thread now as I don't comp, but I would have thought that some of the top TT trucks would be around that. Last time I looked/thought, I was under the impression that the buggies were around 20k+ for a Rover powered Toyota axled setup.

Try this I have lots of tin cup in the book shelf from it over the year was no 3 in 2006 at WE Rock
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic161492.php

And under $8000 will get it today race ready

so if you want to represent rovers why run nissan diffs....

yes i know the why, but it seems winning is most important so build what will win.

power,
light weight as possible,
strong as possible for said weight.

= money

no matter what people say, it is motorsport. if you want to compete and be happy with that you can have fun bit if its must win, hope you have deep pockets and hope you have knowledgeable people around you.

good luck,
Serg

ps there are exceptions to the rule, i think the "lockless" that Strangerover built would be a good example of a competetive build on a budget.... would have been good to see how it performed at OBC....BUT Sam has forgotten more about vehicle design then most of us could be able to learn. which puts him ahead of the game before a spanner is turned or a dollar spent

i'd start by ditching the disco and buying a cheap old 110 fender ute (with a blown motor or the like) , get ureself a tube bender build all your own barwork and tray, then you'll have a much better starting platform (just my opinion) then the disco's -

better wheelbase, less body panels, easier to get a low COG, still 'uncommon', can do exo's and cages easier - but internal you'll have to do some hacking in the dash. swap your V8 auto into it, toy diff conversion (at least it pretty much looks like rover from the outside), etc, etc

i think aiming at TT on 20k is a bit far fetched - unless you are a guru like sam...? but if you achieve it, then it is a 10000% trailer only rig, whereas a 'smaller' winch style vehicle (37's, etc) easier to driving here and there for a play

just my 2 cents worth....

hanks for your input guys and keep it coming, you have opened my eyes and got me thinking overtime, i am seriously thinking of sticking the disco on ebay and cashing out to buy something already well on the way to being ready, appears to be the most financially economical. I am also thinking of ditching my Rodeo for a cruiser so i can still do the family thing, (wife and 4 under 5), car trailer for local trips but i also have a 15tonne tilt tray with tow bar, perfect for the comp sene as could carry a pretty decent work shop with me and accomodation. Still up in the air about which type of comping, i am still keen on tuff truck but love the technical around rock crawling. I love to win, love my rovers, and am an individual, hate beng the same as everyone else and love to have something that no one else has and so this is why i don't want to go nissan or cruiser, everyone has one and they make up nerly all the entrants. Keep your thoughts comeing, much appreciated.
Cheers.

kitacooch wrote:hanks for your input guys and keep it coming, you have opened my eyes and got me thinking overtime, i am seriously thinking of sticking the disco on ebay and cashing out to buy something already well on the way to being ready, appears to be the most financially economical. I am also thinking of ditching my Rodeo for a cruiser so i can still do the family thing, (wife and 4 under 5), car trailer for local trips but i also have a 15tonne tilt tray with tow bar, perfect for the comp sene as could carry a pretty decent work shop with me and accomodation. Still up in the air about which type of comping, i am still keen on tuff truck but love the technical around rock crawling. I love to win, love my rovers, and am an individual, hate beng the same as everyone else and love to have something that no one else has and so this is why i don't want to go nissan or cruiser, everyone has one and they make up nerly all the entrants. Keep your thoughts comeing, much appreciated.
Cheers.

I tend to think that if you're looking at it as a technical, developmental, refinement and skill sport then rock crawling is where its at - more so than TT, winch events etc. In terms of being at the pointy end of the field its also more about developing what works best for you rather than allegences to any brand or being different. Dont forget the team. You may love Rovers, but you wont run a Rover axle and win. Racing is a monumental learning curve, and the more you know the faster you go but if you want to win.... then as already said, don't lock yourself into Rover gear.

As an aside, I would also look into the running costs of the vehicle. When I was Karting it would cost me up to $3k for a Aus championship round over a weekend after everything was factored in such as replacements, rebuilds, consumables, accommodation, transportation, fees etc etc etc.

I know where you coming from, i need to spectate a few more before i will know which type of comping i want to do, i like the mental challenge of technical driving but love the right foot go for it driving also.
Rover axles, i know, already broken a couple, wouldn't even consider comping on rover axles. I beleive a lot of comping rovers are running cruiser and or patrol diffs, this would have to be the go, sacralidge to some i know, but as you mentioned already, can't afford to be too pig headed, the fact is that rover diffs are light and weak and if going to the trouble then need decent rnning gear.


[Cheers.[/quote]
I tend to think that if you're looking at it as a technical, developmental, refinement and skill sport then rock crawling is where its at - more so than TT, winch events etc. In terms of being at the pointy end of the field its also more about developing what works best for you rather than allegences to any brand or being different. Dont forget the team. You may love Rovers, but you wont run a Rover axle and win. Racing is a monumental learning curve, and the more you know the faster you go but if you want to win.... then as already said, don't lock yourself into Rover gear.

As an aside, I would also look into the running costs of the vehicle. When I was Karting it would cost me up to $3k for a Aus championship round over a weekend after everything was factored in such as replacements, rebuilds, consumables, accommodation, transportation, fees etc etc etc.[/quote]

Any help be much appreciated, oh and at this stage am thinking total budjet of maybe $20,000 over 12 months if i sell my good one or $10.000 if i use my good one. I am thinking to start on the wreck and later selling my good one to finnish the other??

I think even if you can do pretty much ALL the labour yourself, it will be a stretch to get a WINNING car done on that budget, especially for Tuff Truck. As has been said already, tyres will likely use about a quarter of that budget (whats the average size these days in tuff truck, 42s?). Then you need the diff upgrades to be able to reliably use those tyres in anger, plus some serious horsepower to turn them hard enough.

If you want to stick with rover gear, thats a LOT of $$$. I reckon a 4.6 would be on the small side if you wanted to really give Tuff Truck a good go, so you'd be heading towards 5+ litre strokers and/or superchargers - Big $$$ to get it right and reliable. Not to mention getting enough suspension travel to match the top guys....

Its all doable, but as has been said - motorsport = $$$. If you want to go out and win, you need to be prepared to spend serious money on getting everything reliable and strong, and a lot of time prepping the car before every stage.

Personally, for $20,000 and trying for a win out of the blocks I reckon you'd be better off aiming at rockcrawling, and as you've sort of mentioned before, pick up a comp rig that someone else has already dumped their hardearned into, as often a race car of any sort will be getting sold for a quarter of what it cost to build. That represents real value with what you're trying to do.

Superior all terrain challenge
http://superiorallterrainchallenge.com/
In modified class at the finals last year it was a rover that one
Oh and in outlaw we were in a pretty much Rover buggy ( Hilux diffs) and tied for first
So it is acheivable.

Keep your diff housings and go down this path.
http://www.rovertracks.com/index.html
Get some gearing thru the group buy in this thread
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic161151.php
Speak to 4wdstuff off this board about some suspension and your on your way.
With tires lockers toyota diff convertions cage gearing suspension and what ever else it will need you should have plenty out of $20000 to have a ball.
Cheers Jamie

Here is mine. Standard (tuned) 200 TDi, Nissan GQ axles, 2" spring lift.

She has won her class first time out and had second overall in the last event done.

Cost? Not a lot as I did all the work myself. Axles were £300 (less than one ARB locker). OK I have no front locker but then less chance of breaking CVs

Nice truck Welsh farmer!

thanks

beginning to look decidedly second hand... but still goes well

i like the exo, got any more pic's of that?

sorry for going off

i like it welsh farmer, the bar work is tidy, doesn't take the look away from the rover.
Good Work

cheers nottie, the superior look pretty allright and reasonably local for me, their web site sux though, not much info on it, doesn't seem to be any rules other than a couple for each class. Any prize money on offer??
Good work for first, bugger it was for tie though.

nottie wrote:Superior all terrain challenge
http://superiorallterrainchallenge.com/
In modified class at the finals last year it was a rover that one
Oh and in outlaw we were in a pretty much Rover buggy ( Hilux diffs) and tied for first
So it is acheivable.

Keep your diff housings and go down this path.
http://www.rovertracks.com/index.html
Get some gearing thru the group buy in this thread
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic161151.php
Speak to 4wdstuff off this board about some suspension and your on your way.
With tires lockers toyota diff convertions cage gearing suspension and what ever else it will need you should have plenty out of $20000 to have a ball.
Cheers Jamie

Mike Smith,Roger Smith,Chippa all had success with there Rangies in Winch Challenges,Rain forest & Outback Challenge and for quite alot of years.

The Nissans have ruled the roost of late but with the right combo and luck(rangie diffs) they still do alright

Mal

agreed and i think mike smith won the rainforest challenge on 34 inch swampers...... times have changed.

its definately become more "motor sport" and rigs are getting pushed harder and harder.

keep weight to an absolute minimum....

strong and light = $$$$$
youll need good power so chev would seem the sensible power option over rover v8...auto maybe c4 for packaging

lt230 is good.

diffs well strong but light = diamond 9's

of full chromo toy in rover housing, laminated etc....

full redo of suspension links....

and make sure its road registerd

just my opinion
Serg

A couple of pics as requested

I seriously love how you've incorperated the snorkel into the exo

Brilliant work making the A pillar bar the snorkel as well!

Troll00 wrote:Try this I have lots of tin cup in the book shelf from it over the year was no 3 in 2006 at WE Rock
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic161492.php

And under $8000 will get it today race ready

hey troll

that link didnt work im also looking into comps and have this year to have a good look. i dont like TT and loved outback challenge until i was told its getting so really modified trucks but i have really been getting into the rock crawlers as they are technical but basic so i would love to know more about them. does sam still make them

cheers dan

Still for sale, here's the members tread of some of it's rebuilds.

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/sutra1522 ... t=#1522984

3.9 disco motor
4 spd auto
LT230 transfer rear disconnect
hilux diffs with lockers and longs