Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey guys.

Coming out of my previous thread (http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic161550.php) I am looking at doing the 3RZ swap into my Hilux single cab (1986 YN67 Single cab manual 4Y powered). What I am aiming to achieve is the definitive guide for the conversion to help enable others contemplating the conversion.

Little info on the engine:


3RZ-FE (2.7 4cyl) - 150@4800 / 177@4000
3VZ-E (3.0 6cyl)- 150@4800 / 180@3400

Take two identical vehicles and run a 2.7 vs a 3.0 and the 3.0 will get spanked, period. The 2.7 is lighter and much more rev-happy. I do not believe that the 3.0 V6 can hang with a 2.7 I4. That is my opinion.

Some cool numbers that show why the 3RZ is the real deal:
22R: 40 HP per liter
22R-E: 47 HP per liter
3VZ-E (3.0): 50 HP per liter
5VZ-E (3.4): 54 HP per liter
22R-TE: 56 HP per liter * TURBO *
3RZ-FE (2.7): 56 HP per liter * NO TURBO *



First off is to purchase the engine. These engines both came in the Hilux and Prado in Australia and I am lead to believe that purchasing the manual version is more appropriate as otherwise the ecu needs to be changed to a manual ecu, otherwise with the auto loom you will need to short the Park safety switch with the "START" position wire (Yellow-gray) to fool the ECU into believing that you are always in Park each time the vehicle is Started.

Mounting the engine is realitivly straight forward, you can use the 2wd gearbox bell housing which also allows the use of the 3RZ clutch/flywheel to be retained, or it will also bolt up to W56/G52 fine. Can anyone confirm for me what slave cylinder needs to be used, and if the clutch line needs to be lengthened??? Once the gearbox is bolted up, grind the origional engine mounts for the existing engine off the chassis, then lower the engine/box into the bay, bolt the tailshaft/gearbox mounts into place, seat the engine mounts on the chassis making sure they are aligned and weld into place.

I believe the following needs to be made in order to finish off the conversion (please feel free to add or correct me on these):

- Dependant on snorkel location (passenger side on mine), 180 degree bend needed to point air intake towards original filter box location.

- New radiator to be fitted with drivers side inlet and passenger side outlet, diesel radiator is built larger than stock so may be worthwhile

- New exhaust/or re-welding to existing exhaust

- New power steer line to be created (can anyone confirm this???)

- External fuel pump/surge tank, or 4 Runner V6 tank apparently is appropriate.

Electrical sides of things seems to be realtivly simple, required other than what is supplied is two relays, one for fuel pump, one for EFI. I believe battery cables need to be lengthened as well, can anyone confirm?

Below is wiring that needs to be completed:


PLUG A (26 pin) - Connect to Computer Untouched
> PLUG B (16 pin) - Connect to Computer Untouched
>
> PLUG C (22 pin) - Connect to Computer - With the Following Additions
> (from
> the original body harness)
>
> ESSENTIAL:
> C1 Yellow +ve Constant 12V+ from a
> fused battery source - input
> C11 Pink & Black +ve Starter motor
> trigger ie. ign switch - input
> C12 Red & Blue +ve Supplied from EFI
> relay - input
> C14 Green & Yellow -ve Trigger for fuel
> pump relay - output
> 2 x 4 Pole Relays (EFI & Fuel Pump)
>
> NON ESSENTIAL:
> C4 Green & White Connect to stop
> light switch - input
> C5 Violet & Green -ve Check engine light -
> output
> C8 Red & White Tacho - output
> C9 Green & Orange Vehicle Speed Sensor - input
> C13 Green & Black 4WD Switch - input
>
> PLUG D (13 pin) - Supply the following sources into the loom
>
> ESSENTIAL:
> D1 Top Row Red & Blue +ve Supply to
> airflow meter from EFI relay - input
> D2 Bottom Row Black & Brown +ve Supply to ignition
> coil from EFI relay - input
> D6 Bottom Row Brown -ve Earthed to chassis -
> input
>
> PLUG E - Engine Diagnosis Port


Some various information in regards to 3RZ:

berad wrote:cam will be a no no, the ecu wont take it, i tried many things with my 2wd 3rz, the stock computer wont cope with it.

the 3rz coils have built in ignitors hence the 3 wires instead of the 2.

The crank angle sensor is magnetic NOT hall effect

Cam angle sensor is used as HOME but not needed.

The cas is a 34 tooth wheel, but in the trigger setup it needs to be put in as 68 tooth

Some good links to peruse on the subject:

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic143978-0-asc-0.php
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic113500.php
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.ph ... hlight=3rz


Now I am sure there is a wealth of other information out there that I have missed perusing around, even if they are small things please post them up here so that I know for my conversion, and others for theres.

Engine data not sure if yours is right or not.
3VZ-E
V6
2962
PETROL EFI
105@4600
240@3400

3RZ-FE
4
2694
PETROL EFI
108@4800
235@4000

Above taken from: http://www.marks4wd.com/misc_info/engin ... lux4Runner

Although need someone to confirm this as I don't know.

I converted my 22R 4runner to a 3rz. REasonably easy conversion. To put engine in, I didn't cut off engine mounts, just had a 10mm steel plate welded onto the current chassis mounts and drilled for the 3rz engine mounts. I used all 22R power steering lines which bolted up to 3rz pump. V6 4runner tank did the job with the standard pump. Still using 22R radiator, but will be looking into possibly fitting up the 3rz one soon, not sure if it bolts in. Full 2.5in mandrel bent exhaust fitted.

The wiring info you've posted is spot on, same info I had.

Power-wise, I'm happy with the outcome. Ended up costing around $4k, but that was fully engineered and having the lpg gear refitted for this engine as previous 22R was dual fuel. That was doing all the work myself with help from mates, so would be significantly more if workshops doing the work.

Has anyone replaced a 3L with a 3RZ ave and pics, and tips, thinking about doing this is the near future.

smaddock wrote:I converted my 22R 4runner to a 3rz. REasonably easy conversion. To put engine in, I didn't cut off engine mounts, just had a 10mm steel plate welded onto the current chassis mounts and drilled for the 3rz engine mounts. I used all 22R power steering lines which bolted up to 3rz pump. V6 4runner tank did the job with the standard pump. Still using 22R radiator, but will be looking into possibly fitting up the 3rz one soon, not sure if it bolts in. Full 2.5in mandrel bent exhaust fitted.

The wiring info you've posted is spot on, same info I had.

Power-wise, I'm happy with the outcome. Ended up costing around $4k, but that was fully engineered and having the lpg gear refitted for this engine as previous 22R was dual fuel. That was doing all the work myself with help from mates, so would be significantly more if workshops doing the work.

Cheers for the info.

I plan on doing all work possible myself, had considered making custom mounts but am unsure as to where the 3RZ will sit in relation to the 4Y.

I cant see a huge cost involved if the engine is purchased cheap, unless fabrication of lines etc needs to be made. I'm guessing the gas conversion on yours would of made the conversion a bit more exxy as well?

Drift Technician wrote:

smaddock wrote:I converted my 22R 4runner to a 3rz. REasonably easy conversion. To put engine in, I didn't cut off engine mounts, just had a 10mm steel plate welded onto the current chassis mounts and drilled for the 3rz engine mounts. I used all 22R power steering lines which bolted up to 3rz pump. V6 4runner tank did the job with the standard pump. Still using 22R radiator, but will be looking into possibly fitting up the 3rz one soon, not sure if it bolts in. Full 2.5in mandrel bent exhaust fitted.

The wiring info you've posted is spot on, same info I had.

Power-wise, I'm happy with the outcome. Ended up costing around $4k, but that was fully engineered and having the lpg gear refitted for this engine as previous 22R was dual fuel. That was doing all the work myself with help from mates, so would be significantly more if workshops doing the work.

Cheers for the info.

your welcome

Weiner wrote:Has anyone replaced a 3L with a 3RZ ave and pics, and tips, thinking about doing this is the near future.

as above
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic143978-0-asc-0.php

Drift Technician wrote:

smaddock wrote:I converted my 22R 4runner to a 3rz. REasonably easy conversion. To put engine in, I didn't cut off engine mounts, just had a 10mm steel plate welded onto the current chassis mounts and drilled for the 3rz engine mounts. I used all 22R power steering lines which bolted up to 3rz pump. V6 4runner tank did the job with the standard pump. Still using 22R radiator, but will be looking into possibly fitting up the 3rz one soon, not sure if it bolts in. Full 2.5in mandrel bent exhaust fitted.

The wiring info you've posted is spot on, same info I had.

Power-wise, I'm happy with the outcome. Ended up costing around $4k, but that was fully engineered and having the lpg gear refitted for this engine as previous 22R was dual fuel. That was doing all the work myself with help from mates, so would be significantly more if workshops doing the work.

Cheers for the info.

I plan on doing all work possible myself, had considered making custom mounts but am unsure as to where the 3RZ will sit in relation to the 4Y.

I cant see a huge cost involved if the engine is purchased cheap, unless fabrication of lines etc needs to be made. I'm guessing the gas conversion on yours would of made the conversion a bit more exxy as well?

Gas stuff was only around $300 to be tuned up and refitted, did most of the work myself on it. Petrol lines were another couple of hundred. Engineers cert was biggest unforseen cost, costing $750 which failed brake test, so that was another $300 on machining of front discs and new pads (EBC green stuff pads) and new fluid. Oh, also needed a new clutch, another $350. This was all included in the $4k I said. All adds up in the end

Has anyone figured how to run the standard diesel tacho with a 3rz?

Although the v6 is a 3.0 it has 6 cylinders to spread the 3000cc, the 3rz is only a 4 banger a big one at that. it has almost identical bore and stroke to a 308. Ive found the rods arent as big as what i'd imagined, although still really tough motors until you get a drop of water in the intake. 10.5:1 compression.

Here is what i did to my bottom end, but running a turbo kit and way to much ignition advance for the comp of the motor but it was all good fun.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/be ... block1.jpg

3rz's are massive in the states and aftermarket forged and performance parts are everywhere and relatively cheap when the exchange rate is good. Not that everyone is interested in turbo and a bulletproof bottom end but i landed a set of arias forged pistons, pauter forged H beam rods, cometic steel gasket, arp rod bolts and arp main bolts for $1600au.



Info ive learnt from my turbo conversion/aftermarket ecu


Ignition wire :

Stock ecu (run it over to the ignition barrell the one in the stock loom cant support the power draw from the relays)

Throttle position sensor :

Stock ecu Yellow : (signal out)
Stock ecu Green/yellow trace : (5v input from ecu)
Stock ecu Light green/black trace : (Ground)

Cam angle sensor :

(dont need it if you set the injectors up to run batched)

Stock ecu Black : (ground) (the cam angle sensor is not needed)
Stock ecu White : (signal out)

Crank angle sensor :

(
the loom wire colors change from the plug going to the sensor and the plug going to the ecu, those combinations are from sensor to plug)

stock ecu Red (shielding)
Stock ecu Green (trigger)
Stock ecu Brown/White dots (ground)

Injector 1 :

Stock ecu Black/pink trace (12v)
Stock ecu Red/blue trace (ground)

Injector 2 :

Stock ecu Black/pink trace (12v)
Stock ecu Blue (ground)

Injector 3 :

Stock ecu Black/pink trace (12v)
Stock ecu White (ground)

Injector 4 :

Stock ecu black/pink trace (12v)
Stock ecu Red (ground)

to just use 2 injector banks ive linked injector 1 and 3, and 2 and 4 together
(note : opposite to how the wasted spark ignition works)

Coil packs :

stock ecu black/red trace (12v)
stock ecu blue/white trace (ignition trigger)
stock ecu brown (ground)
stock ecu white/black trace (misfire recognition/tacho) not used on aftermarket ecu's


thanks to richard for that diagram
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/be ... wiring.jpg
as the diagram said ignition 1 output from the ecu goes to coil pack 1,4 . ignition ouput 2 goes to coil 1,3

the 3rz coils have built in ignitors hence the 3 wires instead of the 2.


Idle Motor

stock ecu
stock ecu havnt go that far yet.
stock ecu
stock ecu (i didnt use it)




NOTES : for people that dont know everything

1. The crank angle sensor is magnetic NOT hall effect
2. Cam angle sensor is used as HOME but not needed.
3. The cas is a 34 tooth wheel, but in the trigger setup it needs to be put in as 68 tooth
(i have trigger btdc set to 53 degrees and offset set to 4)

Weiner wrote:Has anyone replaced a 3L with a 3RZ ave and pics, and tips, thinking about doing this is the near future.

Chriso did it a few months back.

Lux_89's build up...2 day conversion

Rory wrote:Lux_89's build up...2 day conversion

Shanty and all

And BULK was done whilst doing it

pm for any other q's

Have any of you guys that have done this conversion from a 3L kept your AC? If so did you use the 3RZ compressor?

youd have to use the 3rz comp due to the belts, u could check the fittings to see if they will mate up to the 3rz comp, failing that it wouldnt cost much to have some new fittings put on ur pipes or new pipes made...or i belive that the firewall end is the same threw all models of hilux, so you maybe able to use the complete engine bay piping.
dont qoute me on that tho, just something i noticed when looking at a new engine yesterday.

Thanks Rory, I can get new pipes made up easy enough so if 3L pipes don't fit that is probably the easiest way for me to go.

Ok.

Can anyone confirm the best radiator to use, and if power steering lines need to be created to hook the power steering up, or can the existing lines from the 4y setup be used?

Also, can someone please confirm that the motor with the 2wd bellhousing will bolt to the 4y box thats in there, and if a different slave cylinder is needed at all?

i used a 4y radiator on mine, then later changed it out to the 3rz radiator. both gave the same temps untill the 4y rad shit itself.
powersteering lines, unsure on ur model but i no from the 2L n 3L they the same.
Yep the 2wd bellhousing will bolt to any g52 box, so if u have a g52, ull be right.
Use the slave cly that comes with the 3rz bellhousing if it has it, if not use urs n see if it works ok, If not, get a 3rz one.

I used my 2.8 diesel rad, just swapped the top inlet over to the other side. My ps lines hooked straight up to the 3rz pump.

or u could run the fully sick cross over rad pipe like lux_89 lol

Cheers guys an looking at doing the conversion in the next couple of days so want to be right on top with no surprises if possible.

Rory wrote:or u could run the fully sick cross over rad pipe like lux_89 lol

Nah you got it all wrong, its a can't be bothered fix it later fully sick bmx bandit power to weight wevel rad pipe

what options do you have with an auto box ?

The 2wd 3RZ has an auto option.
l will be looking at puttting a 3RZ in a mates auto 4runner, with a stuffed v6.
When i get some time.
May need a turbo to make the thing go tho

Matt

thought I'd reply in hear rather than start a new thread...

Regarding turbo conversions for the 3rz, I know a fair bit has been covered and yes, I've read nearly all of it, however I was just after a few opinions from those in the know.

I'm looking at getting a few more kw's from mine, and was looking into a low boost setup. I currently have a T3 turbo manifold, so was thinking of using an RB25 T3 turbo. These have said to be too small, but I'm only after running 4-6psi for starters, and am after power from pretty much idle up.
Or would it be better to set up an SC14 charger on it?
And would I need to run an intercooler for low boost, maybe a water to air?

Either way, would the standard injectors handle low boost setups like this? I will be running an adjustable fuel reg and decent pump, and I've got a Haltech piggyback ecu currently in and tuned, so would be planning on using this for the turbo tune too. Thats the reason I'm trying to stick with standard injectors. It is on dual fuel at the moment, and will be remaining so, with the GRA setup.

Anyway, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I ideally would like to have this done by the end of the year if I get the cash, and parts cheap enough.

With the 4runner how long do the plates have to be for the engine mounts

for anyone doing this conversion in a yn series hilux with 4y motor heres a bit more info. ive done all the work myself.

this conversion has cost about $5500

first of all if ya think your goin to do it in a weekend ya kidding yourself.

GET ENGINE IN / CLUTCH / RADIATOR
first youll need a body lift to fit gearbox (g52 box with rzn159 bellhousing) in trans tunel and close the bonnet, remove hand brake so it doesnt hit tapper cover. next youll need to fab up a couple of 5mm plate sandwitch wedges to lift motor up as the mounts wont meet up with the brackets. at first i had 10mm plates witch were heaps easyer to put in but the engine was too close to firewall and you need 20mm clerance for blueplate. i used engine mount as template.
while motor is still out take battery tray out and move it to other side.
original radiator will fit with shroud with no mods to hoses but you do need to take 20mm off the fan so it doent hit radiator shroud. you also need to move the radiator overflow over as far as possible toward radiator.
ive used the rzn slave cylinder for clutch and had to make up a new line because its on the opposite side now. for engine mounts use grade 8 high tensile 8.8 bolts fine thread. 8.8 bolts in a metric thread are only a grade 5 bolt. one of the only things blueplater pinned me on. other things were exaust to loud and handbrake but i talked him into letting me away with handbrake.

FUEL
i am running the rzn fuel pump in the standard fuel tank.
to achieve this ive cut out a hole in the yn tank and glued and tek screwed the pump assembly in with stainless screws. sounds a bit rough but works really well. if your goin to do this you need to put a peice of hose on the return line inside the tank to divert the flow away from suction line. youll need the original charcol canister to use as the breather run up to the engine bay as it has a purge control switch on the assembly youll need to wire in later. also running the original fuel filter and bracket.

AIR
ive used the original airbox. with a bit of pannel adjusting it fits where your battery used to go. u need to cut a hole through body so it can breath a bit easyer or run a snorkel. youll also need exaust replumbed as its on wrond side. motor is 2002 so it doesnt have oxy sensor.


WIRING
i first only wired in the essential stuff on the list but realisticly you need all of it (eg the stop lights because the computer cuts the injectors while braking) i ran a seperate relay for coils. only thing i had dramas with is make sure you use the main acc wire for anything that needs it. stereo 1 wont do the job haha. alternator has the same coulored wires.
computer fits neatly under pass side kick panel but you have to pull blower motor out to get it in. engine light wire is violet only not violet and green.
if you arnt using air con then you need to run a resistor to the clutch control wire or the car will think the aircon is on all the time and waste fuel.
if you have any dramas pm me and ill try point you in the right direction.

HOSES
vaccum and heater are pretty straight foward. there are a few for the power steering, above number 1 and 2 in photo. i have these blocked off as im not running it. and to left of number 3 that goes to the purge valve thats then plugged into charcol canister.




thats all i can think of atm

Hey Guys bit of a grave dig but thought it should all go in the one thread. Just got a 3rz yippee. Cant wait to get started.

Couple of things. When people mention loom what exactly does this include? is it all the wirring in the engine bay or just the wires that run to the ecu?

Again with the wirring how did people go about starting did the strip out all the origininal wiring?

I have a fair level of understanding of car electrics just not sure where to start.

Thanks guys and girls.