Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Evening boys!

Been lurking around the forum for a few months now but it's my first post here so hopefully it's a valid one.

I'm interested in building a comp rig and have the following questions regarding diff options. The vehicle will be used in Offroad racing and a few winch challenges.

1.) What is the best/strongest factory diff that can handle 1600kg kerb, 35's a few jumps and an LS1?

2.) From my experience I've found Toyota 60 Series diffs to be great tough units, And can be picked up quiet cheap. Are these worth getting and modifying?

Budget, servicing, reliabilty are all important factors.

If you could list what you have run with what success I think it would be a good indication to me.

Thanks

Scott.

60 series difs are a great strong start.

longfield axles and a difflock will strengthen them further.

Plenty of guys turbing 40"+rubber on 60 series diffs.

the nissan crowd will tell you nissan diffs are stronger.

Nissan diffs ARE stronger.




















GU diffs with bracing, or 60 series would be the go. Not too sure what bracing kits are available for the 60s diffs, but i'm sure there's have to be something about. Definately worth looking at, and definately go for some stronger axles.

coxy321 wrote:Nissan diffs ARE stronger.




















GU diffs with bracing, or 60 series would be the go. Not too sure what bracing kits are available for the 60s diffs, but i'm sure there's have to be something about. Definately worth looking at, and definately go for some stronger axles.

are you sure??

bracing is a good idea on the ball necked area. ESPECIALLY on nissans!

as GQ/GU step down to a measly 55mm dia where-as toyotas only drop to 60mm diam and for a shorter distance. GU's are good for a middle of the road swap and have proven themselves to handle reasonable HP although an expensive starting point. A built toyota 60 series will be much stronger and for less $$. the next real step up is D60 but in oz this become expensive real quick.

One of my mates runs 60s diffs in his old bone cruncher with a 350 chev. He is forever destroying centres (everytime we go out), so i dont know what the go with that is. Hasn't broken a single axle yet though.

GU center is way stronger...

60s housing is way stronger...

How about GU center in a 60s housing

its been done b4

coxy321 wrote:One of my mates runs 60s diffs in his old bone cruncher with a 350 chev. He is forever destroying centres (everytime we go out), so i dont know what the go with that is. Hasn't broken a single axle yet though.

set the carrier side bearing preload properly! they are ALWAYS way too loose. anywhere from 80-150ft/lb is required to 'pre-stretch' the housing, this stops carrier deflection.

Z()LTAN wrote:GU center is way stronger...

how did you work that one out??

1MadEngineer wrote:

Z()LTAN wrote:GU center is way stronger...

how did you work that one out??

id like to know the answer to this one too.

LOL

i dont have nor seen any numbers on this but over the years it would seem a common consensus that the GU center is very strong...

People tend to grenade the Toy centers alot more...

Z()LTAN wrote:LOL

i dont have nor seen any numbers on this but over the years it would seem a common consensus that the GU center is very strong...

People tend to grenade the Toy centers alot more...

they tend to grenade the 80 series front centres alot more.

60 series i havent heard much of.

thats because the 80s front is a hilux dif...

Z()LTAN wrote:LOL

i dont have nor seen any numbers on this but over the years it would seem a common consensus that the GU center is very strong...

People tend to grenade the Toy centers alot more...

some great TECH info there!

yeah... what are u gonna do.....

i've heard of a few failures of 60 style centres, but in nearly all cases its due to leaf spring axek wrap killing things, which a GU and GQ dont have to contend with

Z()LTAN wrote:yeah... what are u gonna do.....

Tough talk on the interweb is retarded.

lol thats not tough talk u got me all wrong... i stab u in the face with a soldering iron...

Movie phrase maby?

and may the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits.

i've read 62series diffs are trussed from the factory.. not sure how well or seen it myself but thats what i've read

What about grafting a set of D60 outers onto a 9" housing?

There will be some locally made 9" housings coming onto ebay shortly.

- David.

Dirty wrote:What about grafting a set of D60 outers onto a 9" housing?

There will be some locally made 9" housings coming onto ebay shortly.

- David.

cause to make a 9" centre as strong as a 60 series centre would cost 2-3 times as much as a 60 series centre.

Shadow wrote:

Dirty wrote:What about grafting a set of D60 outers onto a 9" housing?

There will be some locally made 9" housings coming onto ebay shortly.

- David.

cause to make a 9" centre as strong as a 60 series centre would cost 2-3 times as much as a 60 series centre.

Would it? I'm not convinced on that one.

clm434 wrote:

Shadow wrote:

Dirty wrote:What about grafting a set of D60 outers onto a 9" housing?

There will be some locally made 9" housings coming onto ebay shortly.

- David.

cause to make a 9" centre as strong as a 60 series centre would cost 2-3 times as much as a 60 series centre.

Would it? I'm not convinced on that one.

Why? Genuine question.

I could be wrong, but I thought that I'd read that the Ford 9" has a greater offset on the pinion than the Toyota which will give greater strength.

Slunnie wrote:

clm434 wrote:

Shadow wrote:

Dirty wrote:What about grafting a set of D60 outers onto a 9" housing?

There will be some locally made 9" housings coming onto ebay shortly.

- David.

cause to make a 9" centre as strong as a 60 series centre would cost 2-3 times as much as a 60 series centre.

Would it? I'm not convinced on that one.

Why? Genuine question.

I could be wrong, but I thought that I'd read that the Ford 9" has a greater offset on the pinion than the Toyota which will give greater strength.

im not sure of the toy60 ring gear size, but i m pretty sure slunnie is correct about the pinion offset....

now ford 9's have a massive following in any motorsport.... and there are loads of atermarket stuff for them...

how about diamond 9 with tru hi 9 center.... dollars i know but seems you may only have to pay once if done correctly.

desert racers, drag racers, rock crawlers all use 9's....

they may not be as strong as a fullhose D60 but will be lighter and have more clearance...

Serg

uninformed wrote:

Slunnie wrote:

clm434 wrote:

Shadow wrote:

Dirty wrote:What about grafting a set of D60 outers onto a 9" housing?

There will be some locally made 9" housings coming onto ebay shortly.

- David.

cause to make a 9" centre as strong as a 60 series centre would cost 2-3 times as much as a 60 series centre.

Would it? I'm not convinced on that one.

Why? Genuine question.

I could be wrong, but I thought that I'd read that the Ford 9" has a greater offset on the pinion than the Toyota which will give greater strength.

im not sure of the toy60 ring gear size, but i m pretty sure slunnie is correct about the pinion offset....

now ford 9's have a massive following in any motorsport.... and there are loads of atermarket stuff for them...

how about diamond 9 with tru hi 9 center.... dollars i know but seems you may only have to pay once if done correctly.

desert racers, drag racers, rock crawlers all use 9's....

they may not be as strong as a fullhose D60 but will be lighter and have more clearance...

Serg

Strange nodular iron case - $589
Motive Gear or Strange full spool (steel or chrome moly) - $300-$500 (permanantly locked diff) or Detroit Locker - $900
Richmond pro gears - 4.86:1 ratio, 35 spline - $650 or Motive Gears performance gears - $300-$400 (up to something like 6.5:1 ratio)
Strange diff yoke - $200-$275 (titanium yokes are $1000-$1300)
Floating axle kit (35 or 40 spline) - ~$2500-$3000 (try breaking them!!!)

Total of $3500-$5500 for an unbreakable diff centre and axle set.

Add to it the cost of the housing and fab work, brake calipers, bearings etc.

What would be the cost of a similar set up for a 60 series diff?
Can you get floating axles or gear sets that low for a Toyota diff?

clm434 wrote:Strange nodular iron case - $589
Motive Gear or Strange full spool (steel or chrome moly) - $300-$500 (permanantly locked diff) or Detroit Locker - $900
Richmond pro gears - 4.86:1 ratio, 35 spline - $650 or Motive Gears performance gears - $300-$400 (up to something like 6.5:1 ratio)
Strange diff yoke - $200-$275 (titanium yokes are $1000-$1300)
Floating axle kit (35 or 40 spline) - ~$2500-$3000 (try breaking them!!!)

Total of $3500-$5500 for an unbreakable diff centre and axle set.

Add to it the cost of the housing and fab work, brake calipers, bearings etc.

What would be the cost of a similar set up for a 60 series diff?
Can you get floating axles or gear sets that low for a Toyota diff?

Thats nice that you can get all of that gear, but its all irrelevant really if in a built 9" the limitation is in the pinion strength (or whatever it is) which may/may not be stronger than whatever a built LC60 diffs weakest point is.

Re your question though you can get 4.88 and I'm pretty sure lower also. The axles are 1.31" 30 spline full floaters which you can have in 4130 or whatever.

Whats the dia on the 35 and 40 spline 9" axles?

Slunnie wrote:

clm434 wrote:

Shadow wrote:

Dirty wrote:What about grafting a set of D60 outers onto a 9" housing?

There will be some locally made 9" housings coming onto ebay shortly.

- David.

cause to make a 9" centre as strong as a 60 series centre would cost 2-3 times as much as a 60 series centre.

Would it? I'm not convinced on that one.

Why? Genuine question.

I could be wrong, but I thought that I'd read that the Ford 9" has a greater offset on the pinion than the Toyota which will give greater strength.

thats true, they have a lower entry with thier pinion which gives a better gear mesh with more contact area, the pinion is also longer and has better support.

problem with them is broken cases themselves, ive heard of quite a few doing it. If you go a brand new aftermarket case then they are strong and wont break.

Trouble is, the case alone will cost more than a 60 series housing complete.

And then, the 9" pinion is lower thena 60 series which can give alot more grief.

To build a 60 series diff.

Take a standard 60 serires diff, can get one complete for no more than $300.

Throw in a set of longfield 30 spline super axles and an arb airlocker, weld some trussing, and you have a diff that the comp guys find very hard to break for about $2k. Brakes are already good enough.

And if you do manage to break something, you have a spare complete housing out the back for another $300 to steal parts from.

Is there an airlocker available for a 9" ? Would you even consider spending that sort of money, and putting up with an autolocker?

All aus delivered 60 series are full floaters (assume your talking rear).

4.11 is the standard gear set, can go up to 5.9 i think ive read, but far easier to put a set of gears in your transfer case and keep your standard gears.

Plenty of good condition R&P available as over half the 60 series sold probably turned the front diff for no more than 10,000ks.

also, what cv's / hubs are you using in your 9" ?? Custom cv's?

Shadow wrote:[thats true, they have a lower entry with thier pinion which gives a better gear mesh with more contact area, the pinion is also longer and has better support.

problem with them is broken cases themselves, ive heard of quite a few doing it. If you go a brand new aftermarket case then they are strong and wont break.

Trouble is, the case alone will cost more than a 60 series housing complete.

And then, the 9" pinion is lower thena 60 series which can give alot more grief.

To build a 60 series diff.

Take a standard 60 serires diff, can get one complete for no more than $300.

Throw in a set of longfield 30 spline super axles and an arb airlocker, weld some trussing, and you have a diff that the comp guys find very hard to break for about $2k. Brakes are already good enough.

And if you do manage to break something, you have a spare complete housing out the back for another $300 to steal parts from.

Is there an airlocker available for a 9" ? Would you even consider spending that sort of money, and putting up with an autolocker?

All aus delivered 60 series are full floaters (assume your talking rear).

4.11 is the standard gear set, can go up to 5.9 i think ive read, but far easier to put a set of gears in your transfer case and keep your standard gears.

Plenty of good condition R&P available as over half the 60 series sold probably turned the front diff for no more than 10,000ks.

also, what cv's / hubs are you using in your 9" ?? Custom cv's?

It sounds like the 9" is a great parts axle setup, something that I've noticed seems to get used like everywhere - I'm pretty sure Shannon Campbell was running this setup when he won KOH's last year - although that said, I'd bet there was nothing Ford in that setup. A highly flexible setup.

Thanks for the posts guys.

Anyone here actually run a 60 Series diff or Diffs Hard?

I think i'll end up with a budget setup like Shadow described.

Or am I better off looking around for F truck Diffs, There are always some on the trading posts over here I'm sure I'll be able to get a D60 rear and D44 Front, Not to sure about a D60 Front. How do the 44's rate?

Decisions, You boys make it easier... Keep it coming.

But basically, the 9" has a bearing carrier on both sides of the pinon which offers much more support and stops the pinion wanting to "push" away from the crown wheel under power. Also 9" parts are dirt easy to get out here and you can get just about any ratio you want.

A 9" center can be built to what ever strength you want. From drag racing to stadium racers it is a proven product.

Search Pirate for "609" as they call them in the US.

To start you off.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=589198

- David