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Hiclones and air filter
Hiclones and air filter
hey guys just wondering if any one has tried those hiclones and filters on a nissan nivara 2.5 commonrail yet and did it improve economy, i am hoping to set a set fitted late this week cheers steve
i dont naturaly look this bad work done it to me
Re: Hiclones and air filter
search any car/4wd forum on the net, I think there would be less than .001% of people happy with them or even notice any diffrence at all... But Im not good with maths.
YMMV
YMMV
i've found most people with them 'claim' an improvement.
but i've also seen testing on a 2.8l hilux and an AU 6cyl falcon Both of witch lost power.
I suspect the people claiming an improvement, are only doing so because they are to proud to admit they were done over by hiclone.
but i've also seen testing on a 2.8l hilux and an AU 6cyl falcon Both of witch lost power.
I suspect the people claiming an improvement, are only doing so because they are to proud to admit they were done over by hiclone.
http://www.mothfukle-engineering.com/
I have 3 fitted to my Nissan GQ 2.8TD. Each was fitted and tested seperately to gauge results. I found a distinct improvement after each successive addition, and interestingly enough, the improvements were at different engine rpm.
The first unit was fitted before the aircleaner and i noticed an increase in low rpm torque at take-off. This has improved enormously for when the car is not towing or loaded up for a trip, but not enough to stop the requirement of clutch slip on take off when towing - this is still a problem.
The second was fitted into the cast inlet manifold. This gave better acceleration response up to 3000rpm from memory, then all remained the same.
The third unit ws fitted at the inlet to the snorkle and gave me more cruising speed grunt in the range of 70-110klm in 4th gear.
You don't see neck snapping performance gains but the gains are there and worth the money, especially with such a gutless motor as the 2.8.
I have not noticed any gains in fuel consumption. If anything probably worse as I tend to drive it harder now, and with the additional power gain, load it up heavier when going away.
I can tow a highside tandem trailer full of firewood, at a weighbridge verified 1.7T without too much effort. It still dies on hills as before, you just get further up the hill before it happens!
I have inspected all three units after 3 years use and they are all intact, no broken bits and clean as a whistle, no build-up, which was what I was expecting.
I would say, give them a try and send them back if you are not happy - thats their sales pitch.
Hope this helps.
The first unit was fitted before the aircleaner and i noticed an increase in low rpm torque at take-off. This has improved enormously for when the car is not towing or loaded up for a trip, but not enough to stop the requirement of clutch slip on take off when towing - this is still a problem.
The second was fitted into the cast inlet manifold. This gave better acceleration response up to 3000rpm from memory, then all remained the same.
The third unit ws fitted at the inlet to the snorkle and gave me more cruising speed grunt in the range of 70-110klm in 4th gear.
You don't see neck snapping performance gains but the gains are there and worth the money, especially with such a gutless motor as the 2.8.
I have not noticed any gains in fuel consumption. If anything probably worse as I tend to drive it harder now, and with the additional power gain, load it up heavier when going away.
I can tow a highside tandem trailer full of firewood, at a weighbridge verified 1.7T without too much effort. It still dies on hills as before, you just get further up the hill before it happens!
I have inspected all three units after 3 years use and they are all intact, no broken bits and clean as a whistle, no build-up, which was what I was expecting.
I would say, give them a try and send them back if you are not happy - thats their sales pitch.
Hope this helps.
Wed Apr 01PBBIZ2 wrote:I have 3 fitted to my Nissan GQ 2.8TD. Each was fitted and tested seperately to gauge results. I found a distinct improvement after each successive addition, and interestingly enough, the improvements were at different engine rpm.
The first unit was fitted before the aircleaner and i noticed an increase in low rpm torque at take-off. This has improved enormously for when the car is not towing or loaded up for a trip, but not enough to stop the requirement of clutch slip on take off when towing - this is still a problem.
The second was fitted into the cast inlet manifold. This gave better acceleration response up to 3000rpm from memory, then all remained the same.
The third unit ws fitted at the inlet to the snorkle and gave me more cruising speed grunt in the range of 70-110klm in 4th gear.
You don't see neck snapping performance gains but the gains are there and worth the money, especially with such a gutless motor as the 2.8.
I have not noticed any gains in fuel consumption. If anything probably worse as I tend to drive it harder now, and with the additional power gain, load it up heavier when going away.
I can tow a highside tandem trailer full of firewood, at a weighbridge verified 1.7T without too much effort. It still dies on hills as before, you just get further up the hill before it happens!
I have inspected all three units after 3 years use and they are all intact, no broken bits and clean as a whistle, no build-up, which was what I was expecting.
I would say, give them a try and send them back if you are not happy - thats their sales pitch.
Hope this helps.
With all due respect, HOW THE F*&^ can it make any difference BEFORE the air cleaner, LET ALONE up at the snorkel inlet??? Any swirling of the air is surely cancelled out by flowing thru the air cleaner element, it is impossible to imagine otherwise.
Some years ago I was gullible enough to put one in the recommended location in a GQ TD42 and, surprise surprise, it made 3 fifths of 5 eighths of FAR CALL difference to anything but my wallet.
Some years ago I was gullible enough to put one in the recommended location in a GQ TD42 and, surprise surprise, it made 3 fifths of 5 eighths of FAR CALL difference to anything but my wallet.
Leeroy,
i stand corrected, the hiclone is after the aircleaner, not before it.
I do however stand by the increase in performance. I am not by any means saying that it equals a mechanical or electronic engine management change. The change is noticable on my application in my vehicle, enough for me to support the product. By comparison my brother put one in his range rover and it made no difference at all - absolutely zero. That unit went into mine to see if it worked or not. It did have a positive effect. How much physical increase is unknown, might even by tiny if measured - no idea, but since this motor starts out with so little output, any small increase is recognised.
I for one do not understand how this device impacts on the engine. I sure dont understand how the unit immediatly before the inlet manifold could have an effect, but it absolutely changes the torque characteristics of this pissy engine. I was equally surprised about the effect of the unit at snorkle inlet - I would have thought the ram head would have a greater impact, but again, it changed the engine response.
A guy I know tried one on the 4.2l nissan diesel and it didn't do much if anything either. He sent it back and was refunded.
These things are obviously no magic bullet, but the result has been positive in my case.
i stand corrected, the hiclone is after the aircleaner, not before it.
I do however stand by the increase in performance. I am not by any means saying that it equals a mechanical or electronic engine management change. The change is noticable on my application in my vehicle, enough for me to support the product. By comparison my brother put one in his range rover and it made no difference at all - absolutely zero. That unit went into mine to see if it worked or not. It did have a positive effect. How much physical increase is unknown, might even by tiny if measured - no idea, but since this motor starts out with so little output, any small increase is recognised.
I for one do not understand how this device impacts on the engine. I sure dont understand how the unit immediatly before the inlet manifold could have an effect, but it absolutely changes the torque characteristics of this pissy engine. I was equally surprised about the effect of the unit at snorkle inlet - I would have thought the ram head would have a greater impact, but again, it changed the engine response.
A guy I know tried one on the 4.2l nissan diesel and it didn't do much if anything either. He sent it back and was refunded.
These things are obviously no magic bullet, but the result has been positive in my case.
Sounds like Shell Optimax to me, made a smidge if difference to the odd car but blocked the injectors in the rest........I tell you that fuel was good for business 
Don't ask me, ask them. I'm just runnin for my life myself.
Well they are all following you...
No they ain't, I'm just in front...............
Well they are all following you...
No they ain't, I'm just in front...............
I dont think ANYBODY will take your claims seriously unless you have dyno sheets to show something. However, if you think it works for you, then thats fine.
I'd half consider reinstalling mine for a dyno comparo, but now i'm shit scared of it getting sucked into the intake manifold.
You sure you dont want to buy another one?
I'd half consider reinstalling mine for a dyno comparo, but now i'm shit scared of it getting sucked into the intake manifold.
You sure you dont want to buy another one?
So does the Hiclone work better than the compressor wheel of the turbo considering its spinning at approx 160,000rpm it will create more turbulance than a hiclone doing 0000.0 rpm. Are the hiclones fitted before or after the turbo? Did you fit them yourself and if so did you change air filter at same time? Would really like to see some Dyno results to prove your claim other wise guys like me (Mechanical Engineer) find it really hard to believe and you will never get any respect for your theory.
Guys,
this has turned down a path never intended. I simply stated the results achieved. It works for me, take it or leave it.
No dyno results were done or even considered. I am happy with the results, and have no commercial gain or interest in sales of this product. I only fitted it out of free availability and curiousity.
I fitted the hiclones myself, dead simple but a pain especially for the one in the inlet manifold. The air cleaner was not changed until well after the last unit was installed. One is intalled at inlet to snorkle, the second on outlet of filter pre turbo, and third at inlet manifold post turbo. I can see and understand the technical challenges put forward as to why or how this can't be a viable aid - no argument. What I can't refute is the positive result.
Regarding validity of claim, well, I'm a mechanical engineer myself and logically this doesn't make sense to me either, BUT it has proved a positive result. I can't understand how a stationary device which creates a centralised cyclonic action can work or have positive effect going into an oblong, 6 outlet port manifold with cyclic release in different parts of the manifold.
I have spent over 20 years in design of vacuum and positive pressure convey systems and never utilised a device such as these anywhere. I understand air flow very well, but this is new territory.
As an aside, I am working on a project involving new technology for crushing and milling that will revolutionise a wide range of industries, and even the 'inventor' of the equipment cannot explain how it achieves the results, but it works - very confusing to say the least. This 'thing' can turn lumps of granite into dust at 50T/hr without any mechanical contact, It defies logic, but it works and is simply nothing more than a high pressure fan with specialised design impeller. PM me if you want details.
I have reported what the results achieved are. Obviously I am one of the very few who have had a positive result - so be it. I don't intend to delve into the theory of why this does or won't work - don't care. If you need validation for your application or want to challenge the comments above, go for it. I am getting the impression this device just doesn't universally deliver what it claims. It hasn't delivered the fuel economy claims for me, but has given me a bit more punch under foot.
This information is supplied to give a review of the device as installed, nothing more. Please accept it as such, not as some sort of sales pitch or guarantee of performance.
this has turned down a path never intended. I simply stated the results achieved. It works for me, take it or leave it.
No dyno results were done or even considered. I am happy with the results, and have no commercial gain or interest in sales of this product. I only fitted it out of free availability and curiousity.
I fitted the hiclones myself, dead simple but a pain especially for the one in the inlet manifold. The air cleaner was not changed until well after the last unit was installed. One is intalled at inlet to snorkle, the second on outlet of filter pre turbo, and third at inlet manifold post turbo. I can see and understand the technical challenges put forward as to why or how this can't be a viable aid - no argument. What I can't refute is the positive result.
Regarding validity of claim, well, I'm a mechanical engineer myself and logically this doesn't make sense to me either, BUT it has proved a positive result. I can't understand how a stationary device which creates a centralised cyclonic action can work or have positive effect going into an oblong, 6 outlet port manifold with cyclic release in different parts of the manifold.
I have spent over 20 years in design of vacuum and positive pressure convey systems and never utilised a device such as these anywhere. I understand air flow very well, but this is new territory.
As an aside, I am working on a project involving new technology for crushing and milling that will revolutionise a wide range of industries, and even the 'inventor' of the equipment cannot explain how it achieves the results, but it works - very confusing to say the least. This 'thing' can turn lumps of granite into dust at 50T/hr without any mechanical contact, It defies logic, but it works and is simply nothing more than a high pressure fan with specialised design impeller. PM me if you want details.
I have reported what the results achieved are. Obviously I am one of the very few who have had a positive result - so be it. I don't intend to delve into the theory of why this does or won't work - don't care. If you need validation for your application or want to challenge the comments above, go for it. I am getting the impression this device just doesn't universally deliver what it claims. It hasn't delivered the fuel economy claims for me, but has given me a bit more punch under foot.
This information is supplied to give a review of the device as installed, nothing more. Please accept it as such, not as some sort of sales pitch or guarantee of performance.
Ok we are getting somewhere, the reson I asked about before and after may eplain why you are getting some benefit. One reson maybe that the one in the inlet manifold will help the air flow distribute more evenly accross all the cylinders same princible as flow diverters. Have you tried removing the ones preturbo to see if there's any difference? Helps to know your background now makes you more creadible.
Coxy 321,
thanks for the offer, but I reckon 3 is enough. I mean, if you take my 'claims' to the next level, any more installed would have me imploding the universe thru my inlet manifold and breaking the sound barrier! Look ,challenge is good and being gullible isn't, so can understand the comments.
I am curious to know how or why the units are self destructing. They are a very tight fit into the nesting position - maybe vibration or fatigue from flutter of the fins? Mine are still ok - but no doubt I will find out pretty quickly if one lets go. Comments around issues like these are obviously real and ignoring them has some risk, so I will have to think about possibly removing at least the two after the aircleaner if I find the failures are more widespread than published. How many of these things have you heard 'let go'?
thanks for the offer, but I reckon 3 is enough. I mean, if you take my 'claims' to the next level, any more installed would have me imploding the universe thru my inlet manifold and breaking the sound barrier! Look ,challenge is good and being gullible isn't, so can understand the comments.
I am curious to know how or why the units are self destructing. They are a very tight fit into the nesting position - maybe vibration or fatigue from flutter of the fins? Mine are still ok - but no doubt I will find out pretty quickly if one lets go. Comments around issues like these are obviously real and ignoring them has some risk, so I will have to think about possibly removing at least the two after the aircleaner if I find the failures are more widespread than published. How many of these things have you heard 'let go'?
I dont think anybody is having a crack at your comments. And yes, plenty of people have bought these only to find it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.
On the flipside however, i am sure that 87.634% of the OL members would consider your statements if there was something on paper that said it works. Like i said before, if you think it has worked for you - fantastic. Nobody is going to dispute your opinion (read opinion).
I was keen on dyno testing the Hiclone theory, but cannot anymore for various reasons.
EXAMPLE:
Look at it this way, if you took your VE SS Commodore to a workshop for a power upgrade and picked out a kit that was advertised to deliver say 300rwk and 600Nm of torque, the FIRST thing i would ask would be "Where are your dyno sheets?", "Show me that the results are valid.".
You can bet your @rse i wouldn't say "OK John, if you say thats what it does, I'll take it."
I know of a particular workshop that wont release a car until they have matched/beaten a quoted power figure, even at their own cost.
On the flipside however, i am sure that 87.634% of the OL members would consider your statements if there was something on paper that said it works. Like i said before, if you think it has worked for you - fantastic. Nobody is going to dispute your opinion (read opinion).
I was keen on dyno testing the Hiclone theory, but cannot anymore for various reasons.
EXAMPLE:
Look at it this way, if you took your VE SS Commodore to a workshop for a power upgrade and picked out a kit that was advertised to deliver say 300rwk and 600Nm of torque, the FIRST thing i would ask would be "Where are your dyno sheets?", "Show me that the results are valid.".
You can bet your @rse i wouldn't say "OK John, if you say thats what it does, I'll take it."
I know of a particular workshop that wont release a car until they have matched/beaten a quoted power figure, even at their own cost.
300winmag
No problem at all.
I have not done this, but am happy to try. The order of install was first one post air cleaner, then later,second one at inlet manifold and last third in snorkle inlet.
The swap out is not easy as I have the safari snorkle and safari intercooler ducting, plus dual battery kit etc etc all in the way. I will have to wait until friday night to do this and will report whatI find. What are you possibly expecting to see - I am guessing no change in performance to what exists with 3 units down to 2 maybe? You could be right, with the other units masking the spread maybe? Its worthwhile doing the change out for sure, if for no other reason than to tear the results apart and validate the combinations.
Will advise.
No problem at all.
I have not done this, but am happy to try. The order of install was first one post air cleaner, then later,second one at inlet manifold and last third in snorkle inlet.
The swap out is not easy as I have the safari snorkle and safari intercooler ducting, plus dual battery kit etc etc all in the way. I will have to wait until friday night to do this and will report whatI find. What are you possibly expecting to see - I am guessing no change in performance to what exists with 3 units down to 2 maybe? You could be right, with the other units masking the spread maybe? Its worthwhile doing the change out for sure, if for no other reason than to tear the results apart and validate the combinations.
Will advise.
Coxy,
see your point. The claims made by the hiclone people are just that, probably achieved on a single vehicle and then the marketing guys have gone crazy.
Regardless of cost, if the claim is made, you would think it could or would be supported by documentation.
At this point I will do some tinkering as noted in another thread, but dyno testing and validation is unlikely - just don't have the time or want to go the expense to validate someone elses product.
see your point. The claims made by the hiclone people are just that, probably achieved on a single vehicle and then the marketing guys have gone crazy.
Regardless of cost, if the claim is made, you would think it could or would be supported by documentation.
At this point I will do some tinkering as noted in another thread, but dyno testing and validation is unlikely - just don't have the time or want to go the expense to validate someone elses product.
In regards to Hiclones breaking, the only weak point i can see would be in the spot welds. The material mine is made out of looks strong and of good quality (bloody sharp edges tough). I'm not ken on the mounting setup, however it seems to have worked in my car for a while.
If a spot weld cracked, you would get a fin straight into your inlet manifold, possibly into one of the ports.
If a spot weld cracked, you would get a fin straight into your inlet manifold, possibly into one of the ports.
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