Outer Limits 4x4 Board

G'day gents, new here.

Was driving the cruiser home one day, heard a serious clunk, normal revving sound replaced by spluttering, then she revved out to redline.

Turned off the ignition and she was still running, white smoke blasting out with some hot oil. Tried to stall it in 5th but burnt the clutch off (which needed to be replaced soon). Stopped and watched helplessly as it ran itself out of engine oil .

Fireys arrived when all was quiet to mop up my exhaust slick. They apparently see this all the time in trucks when the turbo seals blow.

Had some guys take 'a look' (I don't really think they did much more than kick the tyres and point at the oil leaking from the turbo. One even bloody started it (it does run, but poorly). Diagnosis: chuck job/new motor for $15k/sell and run.

Was not going to let our old warhorse die this way. I don't have years of experience around engines, but I can handle myself in a workshop. So it was decided between myself, a mate and my old man to rebuild it ourselves.

We have a mate who is lending us a garage, we bought some measuring tools, an engine stand and an engine crane (I know of a good shop in Dandenong Victoria), and we are cracking away at it, admittedly slowly.

-----PROGRESS------
Got all the grille and easy stuff off, no worries.
So far we have had to grind back an exhaust nut to failure after stripping it.

I just want to ask some advice before I actually yank it out of the car.
For securing it to the engine stand, are there tapped holes into the block, or is it more of a flange where you use a nut to retain the engine against the engine stand arms?

If there are tapped holes, about how deep are they and (more importantly) what thread are they? If it is a flange, whats the diameter of the holes (I need to buy some bolts)?

I'll keep everybody posted as we progress through this.

EDIT: All pictures on photobucket.
http://s679.photobucket.com/albums/vv157/overflow255/

Forgot to mention:

-Most likely cause of death is failed turbo seals.

This Caused turbo to pump said engine oil into intake (thats why I couldn't turn it off).

-No idea what damage is done at the moment (still getting it out).

-She has been babied (1991 and done 220,000).

turbo seals usually last a lot further than 220,000km. has the vehicle done a lot of stop/start driving / short trips?

was it serviced recently? if the oil is overfilled it is common for the crank to whip up a cloud of atomised oil that gets sucked through the turbo, which the engine will run on.


anyway that doesn't matter, it's dead. you bolt it to your engine sand with the gearbox bolts.

be prepared for an expensive rebuild. you might need a crank if it has run out of oil, that is an expensive little bit. all the little things add up. if you're new to this, take a lot of photos as it comes apart so you know where to put things when you put it back together.

good luck.

DD

if this ever happens to anybody else
act quikly as posible and block the intake to stall it starving it of air
the engines are almost at full throttle when this occures so it can be hard to stall them by other means

my money is on the turbo seals in the compressor

thrashlux

You bolt the motor to the stand with the gearbox holes/ threads, so you can use either or, but you'll need to buy bolts because the bolt has to go through the stand mounting, and either thread into the block or through a hole and secured by a nut, You might be lucky enough that the gearbox bolts are long enough. If you have to buy them buy high tensile bolts obviously there is alot of weight hanging off the 4 or so bolts.

When i pull apart motors/engine bays, i buy a few packets of those ziplock sandwich bags so i can put bolts/nuts, clips etc from one thing and label it.

You can buy brand new long motors for about $7000. Swap over whatever is OK. Even with a new turbo and inj pump its still way under $15k.

$7000 is still alot more than a bottom end rebuild, providing the crank etc etc is salvageable for the rebuild.

If you can get away with a bottom end rebuild only then your lucky. I've seen similar motors do this and they usually crack the head due to extreme temp. Also everything has copped a huge flogging and run without oil.Personally I'd be reluctant to use it again but if you do check everything real well.

If you are real fast, there is a 1hz bottom end on fleebay
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0331389542
the crank and rods are what you will be needing. You will also be chasing turbo shaft..the compresser blades fracture and break off, the shaft snaps. the oil flows past.

I saw a Cat 27 litre v12 run on, because of shagged turbo seals. It it 3300rpm and they are only ment to rev to 2100. I think you will find bent valves and rockers if it has oversped which it sounds like it has. I think you would still be worth while buying a long motor.

dow50r wrote:If you are real fast, there is a 1hz bottom end on fleebay
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0331389542
the crank and rods are what you will be needing. You will also be chasing turbo shaft..the compresser blades fracture and break off, the shaft snaps. the oil flows past.

The rods are different between the 1HZ & 1HDT, the 1HDT has larger gudgens so the HZ rods won't fit up to the HDT pistons (which he will need as their swirl chambers are designed for the direct injection).

If you have the time and inclination there is no harm in seeing what you have left before you make any decission

may only be as bad as a couple of crook big ends but you will never know if you dont look!!

I would pull it all apart and then inspect and test all of it if nothing is realy too bad or jumps out at you


had a mates jackaroo do the same thing but he killed it by blocking the intake

it reved above redline for probably 1 minute before he could work out why and how to shut it down

he just got the turbo rebuilt and put another 100k on it before selling it

Regarding blocking it off, I only really realised what I could have done afterwards. I read somewhere that an even easier way is to stick a CO2 fire extinquisher in the intake and pray.

It hit about 4300rpm and then I killed the ignition and lost the tacho, but if it did overspeed, it was just inside the overspeed, not at 4800 or anything. The radiator water was all there.

To dumbdunce, it was a bit more of an urban vehicle because I never had much time to go driving. We took good care of it though, and always let the turbo cool. It did do some regular double-axle trailer work though.

I agree with thrashlux, I'd rather see what (if anything) is genuinely shagged, and go about seeing what can be repaired. If push comes to shove, I'll buy a new long ($7000) and use everything else.

I had a better look at the turbo yesterday. It's sitting out of centre, missing one vane. It does have oil sitting in the bottom of it.

Emptied the oil, had about a 4-litre icecream container worth (I know, theres some 5L missing). It smells like when it was running out, burnt, quite sickly actually.

Today it is basically ready to come out, after I got the air-con guy to come and purge the A/C.

Thanks for the help with the bolts, now just hope something is open today.

overflow255 wrote:Forgot to mention:

-Most likely cause of death is failed turbo seals.

This Caused turbo to pump said engine oil into intake (thats why I couldn't turn it off).

-No idea what damage is done at the moment (still getting it out).

-She has been babied (1991 and done 220,000).

I have seen this before, the turbo can pull hte oil athru if there is blow by, happened to me so I know but I caught it but burnt the clutch out though. Put a catch can on it so it won't do it again.

Maybe just repalce the motor with a new 1hz and use your turbo set up? 1HZ are around 5K recoed.

i have just had my 1hdt cook and was going to rebuild it but when i looked into prices decided that a second hand low k 1hdfte was the go i got out of it for around $8200 and i still have the complete 1hdt to sell.

the same thing happend to me except my turbo shit itself and the engine revved its guts out and sucked all the bits of turbo through my engine, i ended up rebuilding it myself needed new pistons as they were cracked, got the head and machining done at a shop, bought brand new turbo from toyota and surprisingly it was only 2100. got injectors and pump done, basically new engine now, loves it.

After a whole day, and visiting REPCO for 1/2" socket extensions, we got her out. The cam looks remarkably ok for what its apparently been through, oil still on them.

Got the turbo off. Ugly. Took it to a rebuilder and he just said "just got old".

Bought some bolts to hold the engine in.
Search Pickup: 1HD-T Rear Bolts
For everybody's info, the blind holes are approx 20-25mm tapped from the face. The through holes are open. They are M12x1.25mm pitch.

I have a '680kg' stand. But I am looking at it and crapping myself when its loaded. So I have it propped temporarily until I buy some SHS to attach to the engine mounts.

I have some pictures on camera but I left it in the garage. I'll put them up later.

jackson.baker wrote:brought brand new turbo from toyota and surprisingly it was only 2100

Wow

Another few days at the grindstone.

As promised, the dead turbo:


Got the turbo back in exactly 1 day. Immaculate. Thanks MTQ. Everything inside was wrecked, shaft broken, bearings shot, both impellers needed replacing.

We were really unhappy with the engine stand, it just seems to sag way to much for what its rated too. And with only 4 pickups and arms that were crimping washers, we decided to improve it.

Before:


Bought a bit of 300x350mm 12mm Mild plate and drilled her out to fit the existing plate. Also smashed out two extra arms made from flat bar and heavy steel pipe. Worked a treat.

After:


Took off the intake, alternator and A/C pump, timing tensioner and whatnot. Fabricated our own little gear puller to get the injection pump off.

Now we are stuck. We need to borrow some caveman tools to get that balancer off. As my mate quite rightly said:



Already bent a breaker bar. Also, need to make a really flat gear puller to get the timing wheel off the crank (the wheel viewable in the picture above, above the sign) so we can get the head off.

Until I track down this caveman breaker bar and pullers, we are on pause.

I had my 1HZ on one of those malz stands too it was pritty touch and go lol..

I had to make my own bolts and receivers for the arms aswell.

That turbo looks real buggered



Good luck with it mate

its a bit late now but when i was rebuilding my 2h diesel to get the harmonic balancer nut off the crank all i did was place the 45mm socket and 3/4 breaker bar accross the chassie rail hold the socket in place and get someone to flick the key works well do it all the time at work. motors out so its not realy a question there are impact bars that you can buy put the socket on the end of bar and hit a couple of times also works a treat.

Your mate is funny

Get a piece of bar about 1 inch by 8 inches by 1/4 thick and drill holes in it to pick up 3 of the threads around that bolt....weld bits on if you have to...then borrow a few jack handles or some pipe about 1.5 meters long by 1 1/2 id....that should get it off.
Google SMD or don kyatt for kits to rebuild....1500 should see you with acl parts dont bother with toyota, aslong as you get good quality aftermarket, all will be well
The crank is what i was thinking you would need previous post...however, yours may be ground undersize if enough is left.
If you havnt picked up the turbo yet, price a 100 series varient...alot more efficient.

http://cars2.ebay.com.au/TOYOTA-Landcru ... 0322804241
this would be a good buy if it turns out it's all good engine wise

harmonic balancer???

nothing a 3/4 or 1inch rattle gun wont fix!!!!

60 mad wrote:http://cars2.ebay.com.au/TOYOTA-Landcru ... 0322804241
this would be a good buy if it turns out it's all good engine wise

Looking at those pics there may be some damage to the moving parts - something bent perhaps.

Good luck with it overflow.

Keep up with the pics and stuff, it is making for a good read.

Tools are the most useful thing. You just can't get away without them.

Managed to borrow two gear pullers. Also laid hands on a rattlegun and 3/4" drive t-bar.

Well. Fat load of good the rattle did. For swearing and cursing and rattling that bolt for a good half hour, we got nothing.

Since we bent the last t-bar, and we had borrowed it at great favour, I just didn't want to wreck it like the other one. So we went out to the tool shop of choice and bought a 600mm 3/4" drive breaker bar. Impact hardened tip, good to 900nm. With 3/4" to 1/2" adaptor, impact hardened, $88. Best tool in the world.



With that, and an extra 50cm from a long bit of heavy pipe over the whole thing, it was a piece of cake. Even pulling the pulleys was easy.



Then with the cam pulley off, we got the timing gear cover off and exposed the timing gears.



Now for the camshaft.





Then the head. Mind, when we were taking the head off, we loosened one of the bolts and suddenly the cylinder depressurised. It must have been before exhaust at max compression on the cylinder. Forgot to take a picture of the head itself. But here is the top of the cylinder block.



Pistons aren't too bad. There's a little bit of turbo vane embedded in the top of 2. (Diagonal line on the piston at 8 o'clock from the '2' marking) They were all gungy and oily, but it was all of a wipe with kero and they're pretty good. Even the bores look good. There's still hone crosshatch on them. One or two fairly faint up/down marks, look like they've been wearing for a while.



Then the sump. Without taking the crank out, I can't tell much, but I cannot see anything wrong. No shavings, plenty of oil around everything.



Without saying too much, I think I got out pretty unscathed. I measured the head and block with a straight edge and I could not get a 0.05mm feeler under it. According to the book 0.2mm is maximum warpage.

By the way, to avoid flooding this post with pictures, if you want to see the whole album go to the photobucket page: http://s679.photobucket.com/albums/vv157/overflow255/

Cheers.

Next thing is to pop out the slugs and check the crank....the faint marks may be a broken ring, maybe just a bit of something stuck in there. like alloy turbine
Andrew

How was the crank?