Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I have both in my garage a pretty good M8000 warn and a PTO thomas winch setup for my MK Patrol.

I will be running 2 truck batteries and twin alt so juice aint a problem and its a diesel so it it will keep running under water etc.

Im more after reliability rather than speed, etc. Planning on doing lots of touring so speed and huge pulls should not be in the equation.

I like the fact elect has more precise control and i dont have to be in the car and am pretty sure a pto doesnt have a winch break

SO, what ya's reckon Elec or PTO ?

Thanks

if it is a worm drive thomas, it will brake by design.... they are good winches, options of how ever many speed your gear box is... im a fan of PTO.

serg

I have been told that pto winches are fairly heavy but in a tourer its probably not so much of an issue. Atleast the pto will go as long as the motor is running.

I was going to fit a thomas PTO winch to my landcruiser before I heard a friend had bent a number of mainshafts winching on hills. They can also have a tendency to 'jump out of gear' - which will result in unbraked freespooling of the cable. Basically the Thomas winch is Good in theory and design, not so good in execution/materials. Have a look for a toyota PTO winch - meant to be alot better.

For touring application you may find yourself doing much longer pulls - i.e. winching 1km out of a valley as opposed to 1m through a stinky boghole.

sorry for hi-jacking the thread but.....
were do you get a pto winch from and how much I've heard good things about the toyota pto's but not heaps any help would be the goods,
and will it fit a GQ?

What about mounting the pto on the front and fitting the warn to the rear then you have the best of both worlds.I have front and rear winches on my 4wd and its suprising how handy the rear winch is sometimes

troopy94 wrote:What about mounting the pto on the front and fitting the warn to the rear then you have the best of both worlds.I have front and rear winches on my 4wd and its suprising how handy the rear winch is sometimes

x2

dogbreath_48 wrote:I was going to fit a thomas PTO winch to my landcruiser before I heard a friend had bent a number of mainshafts winching on hills. They can also have a tendency to 'jump out of gear' - which will result in unbraked freespooling of the cable. Basically the Thomas winch is Good in theory and design, not so good in execution/materials. Have a look for a toyota PTO winch - meant to be alot better.

For touring application you may find yourself doing much longer pulls - i.e. winching 1km out of a valley as opposed to 1m through a stinky boghole.

If the winch pops out of gear and goes into free spool. There is a fault with the winch.
I had a Thomas winch on my old GQ and never had it goe into free spool when under load. And I did some huge pulls. Both in length and load.

dogbreath_48 wrote:I was going to fit a thomas PTO winch to my landcruiser before I heard a friend had bent a number of mainshafts winching on hills. They can also have a tendency to 'jump out of gear' - which will result in unbraked freespooling of the cable. Basically the Thomas winch is Good in theory and design, not so good in execution/materials. Have a look for a toyota PTO winch - meant to be alot better.

For touring application you may find yourself doing much longer pulls - i.e. winching 1km out of a valley as opposed to 1m through a stinky boghole.

Mine used to do this occasionally, but it was because the dog clutch shoulders were worn and not the fault of the design. I have since rebuilt up the dog clutch by building it up with weld then reshaping and putting a 2-3 degree negative camber on the faces which pulls the dog clutch together when under load. I have also made up a little latch on the lever which holds it in too.

The PTO will pull all day long as long as you have engine power. It's crap for drive assist as you will over run the winch once you get traction. I usually just winch as i'm in no great hurry normally.

The PTO has a worm drive which automatically brakes the winch and there are also small freespool brakes which stop the drum from freespooling uncontrollably making a birdsnest.

I have never heard of the mainshaft being damaged and the outlet box is good for at least 9HP so for a tourer that is more than enough.

Keep a supply of shear pins and you will be fine, although i have never broken one.

I don't have anything against electric, but in your application a PTO would allow you to free up the engine bay by getting rid of the extra batteries and alternator, or allow the second battery to be applied to your fridges etc. Also while a PTO isn't zero maintenance they don't mind getting dunked in water and filth and require less maintenance than an eleccy.

hjgq wrote:sorry for hi-jacking the thread but.....
were do you get a pto winch from and how much I've heard good things about the toyota pto's but not heaps any help would be the goods,
and will it fit a GQ?

it should be just a matter of getting the driveshafts to go from the GQ PTO outlet box to mate to the Toyota or Thomas inlet shaft.

I say go with the pto, it'll brake by design - if you put the clutch in the winch will stop and hold the car.
They aren't that heavy - and some of there weight is nice and low and central - g/box output.
You can fit more rope on them.
If electric winches were more reliable the army would run them!
MQ pto winches have the choice of winching when wheels are driving or in freewheel (transfer in neutral) as the output comes from the back of the g/box output.
Before you put it in i'd put new bearings and chain in the output - its an easy job, and strip and clean the winch - theyre basic.

im still trying to get a PTO for my GQ, id be going with the PTO anyday, especially for your purposes

rockcrawler31 wrote:

Mine used to do this occasionally, but it was because the dog clutch shoulders were worn and not the fault of the design. I have since rebuilt up the dog clutch by building it up with weld then reshaping and putting a 2-3 degree negative camber on the faces which pulls the dog clutch together when under load. I have also made up a little latch on the lever which holds it in too.

I see that as a design/materials fault

dogbreath_48 wrote:

rockcrawler31 wrote:

Mine used to do this occasionally, but it was because the dog clutch shoulders were worn and not the fault of the design. I have since rebuilt up the dog clutch by building it up with weld then reshaping and putting a 2-3 degree negative camber on the faces which pulls the dog clutch together when under load. I have also made up a little latch on the lever which holds it in too.

I see that as a design/materials fault

could just be that a lot of these PTOs have been kickin about for 2 or 3 decades... im sure a warn would be a lil worn down after this sort of time period...

macca81 wrote:

dogbreath_48 wrote:

rockcrawler31 wrote:

Mine used to do this occasionally, but it was because the dog clutch shoulders were worn and not the fault of the design. I have since rebuilt up the dog clutch by building it up with weld then reshaping and putting a 2-3 degree negative camber on the faces which pulls the dog clutch together when under load. I have also made up a little latch on the lever which holds it in too.

I see that as a design/materials fault

could just be that a lot of these PTOs have been kickin about for 2 or 3 decades... im sure a warn would be a lil worn down after this sort of time period...

The only reason a dog clutch should really wear (apart from through improper use) is that the teeth distort and the angle of the distorted teeth forces the clutch apart, causing the clutch to disengage under load.

Nothing at all against PTO winches - i think they're the best second only to a well set up hydraulic system. Just the thomas winch unit could have been designed and built better.

turps wrote: And I did some huge pulls. Both in length and load.

On any other forum........Tee hee hee.






Sorry I couldn't help myself.

I'll say go Warn for good quality.l..

all winches have their failings, from PTO, Hydro, and electric...

Reddo is currently selling a GQ pto and box in the forsale section if people are interested, its in Vermont; Vic.

I had the same thoughts for my 80, elec or pto but basically if for whatever reason your car stops in a river for instance an elec winch will atleast run for a little while (ie: kill >$300 of batteries, or $12k+ worth of hydrolocked motor) whereas a PTO has no chance unless you have a crank handle, fred flinstone mobile etc etc.

Like anything winches are a compromise between uses; simex are great in the bush but crap on road; an 80l fridge is great if you do 2 week trips, but kind of unpractical most of the time etc etc.

Id go for a warn 9.5xp with the XDC mosfet pack if had the spondoolies

Hi Weve been running a PTO on a GQ comp truck for over 4 years and would never go back to elec for our primary winch ,we do have a high mount in the rear for those blonde moments but our pto will blow it away every time ,i have heard all the stories about what happens when your engine stops etc but what happens when youve got a dead alt or have just done a couple of 50 mtr winches ,the voltage drops and you can kiss goodby to a $600-1000 winch motor ,at least with a pto i know i can winch all day and not have to worry about the elec system ,just my thoughts..

Ps over here in NZ we quite often get complete PTO set ups on Trade Me for around the $1000 mark even with frieght to OZ would work out less than half the price of a decent Elct winch

monstr, any other good places to pick up PTO's?
dont know how i missed the one on here forsale, ive been looking for one for quite a while

dj hansen, have you got a link to the ad? only thread i could see by reddo just said sold, so you dont even know what it was or how much it was :(

sorry mate, i only saw it the other day and remembered that it was forsale.

love ke70 wrote:monstr, any other good places to pick up PTO's?
dont know how i missed the one on here forsale, ive been looking for one for quite a while

dj hansen, have you got a link to the ad? only thread i could see by reddo just said sold, so you dont even know what it was or how much it was :(

that was it. i bought it. sold in 10 mins

love ke70 wrote:monstr, any other good places to pick up PTO's?
dont know how i missed the one on here forsale, ive been looking for one for quite a while (

TradeMe would be the way to go. I've sold a few to AU winch comp guys over the years. Usually costs about NZ$200-300 to freight it over depending on how urgently they've wanted it.