Outer Limits 4x4 Board

now every hilux shakes and rattles, but a new one has turned up and i have no idea where to start looking.

solid axel 2.8 turbo diesel single cab.

recent mechanical activities - new lifted rear springs.

been driving it a bit harder lately to so could have bent something etc etc.

it seems to have happened since i did the rear springs, it has a slight shudder mostly 80-90km/h but can be other speeds and is exagerated by backing off the gas.

it doesnt feel like wheel balance. doesnt come throught the steering wheel much and isnt very violent.

could it be a tail shaft issue or something?

seriously any suggestions of where to look would be appreciated.

Im not to concerned about it but dont want to bugger something else by not fixing it.

First thing I would look at is center bearing, and the condition of the uni's.

worn unis will flog out a cb in no time.

Even if the unis have no play in them, remove the tailshaft, and make sure that they have a full range of movement with no tight or loose spots.
if it does, replace them.

increase in angle of tailshaft, = magnified problem of worn uni's, putting more stress on the cb, and tailshaft moving further that it did before.

They are the first things I would look at.


T

i just replaced,unis and centre bearing today and it got rid of my terrible noise i had(stuffed/stiff uni) and also a vibration that i often had seems to be gone now at speed so atleast check it all mate,cheap fix but could end up worse

hmmm, i did wonder about the cb after reading thrashs thread a while ago.

I immediately looked under my truck, and cant see anything resembling a center bearing.

what is a one piece like, visually compared too something with a center bearing?

Worn unis is quite possible, i was under it the other day trying to grease them up, one was just impossible to get at the nipple, the other I thought had been sheared off - just checked it again then and found its not sheared off, its just missing.

So god only knows how long since they have been greased properly.

I also read on another forum in my search for answers, that you can grab the shaft and it will move 5-50mm deengin on how worn the cb is.

well nothing in mine moves at all except in the rear diff, which subsequently is leaking a little oil out the front seal where the tail shaft joins the diff.

This join i would say has 2-3mm play in it. its also leaking oil... so would it be feasible for this to be the problem? bearing worn creating play, thus wearing the seal. plus the play is allowing the tail shaft to wobble.

a 1 piece shaft runs outa the transfer and straight to the diff in 1 piece a 2 piece runs out of the transfer pretty much paralell with the floor pan where there is a join and the centre bearing is in the round cradle with 2 flat arms that bolt to a x member, and the 2nd piece runs to the diff, even a brand new cb will have play because its rubber mounted but should not have 20mm or so.

2 or 3mm of twist is fine, thats just slightly worn diff gears, or incorrectly setup lash. that seal is a risky one, the crush tube that is behind the yoke governs the gears meeting properly etc.

Or does the shaft pull in and out as in front to back 2 or 3mm, if so the bearing pinion bearing is wearing and you should replace it before it shits its self in the bush.

If it gets worse when backing off, my money is on the pinion bearing, get it replaced quick smart before it totaly lets go.

Have you retightened the u bolts after fitting the new springs, it is good practice to retighten bolts nuts etc a day or so after removing them for one reason or another, and grease every nipple on the car as much as possible, before/after every trip. you can never have enough grease haha.

ok so I definitely have a one piece tail shaft no Cb's to worry about.

Or does the shaft pull in and out as in front to back 2 or 3mm, if so the bearing pinion bearing is wearing and you should replace it before it shits its self in the bush.

there is maybe 1mm of thrust movement in this joint. is definitely can move in and out but only a very small amount.

it has 2-3mm of twist which you say is probably ok.

I was wrong when i said it had 2-3mm of play up and down it is more like 1mm.

I will double check the u bolts, as when i put the new spings in they were a little thinner and the u bolts ran out of thread, so i could not fully tighten them, quick test run and noticed a fair bit of vibration, so i got some thick washers and split washers and re tightened them, it them removed most of the vibration so it could still be that i guess, but im 99% sure they are tight enough. will triple check when i get home.

Does it shudder at take off. Mine did the same thing. Ended up being the front bearing in the gearbox was lose in the housing and sent the vibrations through the whole drivetrain.

washers :S, cut a load bearer or anything with enough thickness down to 100mm long and round the ends like the other leaves and wack that underneath.

Did you put longer springs in the back? slipjoint possibly close to coming out, throwing it out of balance?, are the unis sloppy, the one at the transfer?

berad wrote:washers :S, cut a load bearer or anything with enough thickness down to 100mm long and round the ends like the other leaves and wack that underneath.

Did you put longer springs in the back? slipjoint possibly close to coming out, throwing it out of balance?, are the unis sloppy, the one at the transfer?

so your saying the washers are bad? note they are on the nut side of the whole equation, not under the leaves. cant see how these are causing any issues.

I thought i was putting longer springs in the back... got them from a 4 runner... as it happens it was one of the old school 4 runners pre ifs so they were the same length as stock . so it shouldnt be pulling the slip joint out much further maybe 5-10mm to deal with the 2 inch lift.

The uni joints seem perfect, i cant detect any play in them at all. the only play i can find is in the rear diff input shaft of about 1mm in and out and 1mm up and down. The movement in this is making me think a bearing is flogged out, so i might pull it out and have a look.

willy - it doesnt shudder at take off, its barely noticable until 90km/h and then its only if you back off the throttle, it will shudder for a few seconds then be ok, then when you re accelerate it will shudder then become smooth again. it seems like its smooth when their is acceleration/forward drive, or decelleration/engine braking but if there is no load or transition between forward or backward load then it shudders.

thehanko wrote: willy - it doesnt shudder at take off, its barely noticable until 90km/h and then its only if you back off the throttle, it will shudder for a few seconds then be ok, then when you re accelerate it will shudder then become smooth again. it seems like its smooth when their is acceleration/forward drive, or decelleration/engine braking but if there is no load or transition between forward or backward load then it shudders.

That sounds exactly like an issue I had after putting some lift in, was definately the uni's cause after I changed them (only thing changed) it was perfect again.

ok cool, ill give them a go on monday, if its not raining. can you get away without using a press? or is it best to take them to a shop to get rebuilt.

If you mean the pinion bearing, take the whole centre and get a shop to do it as it needs to set correctly to the crown wheel.

If uni's, don't need a press, just a vice and some basic tools.

Mates done this not long after lifted springs went in floged out centre bearing. look over whats been mentioned also when you fitted lift did the tailshaft come out of the slip yoke at all if it did it may be out of phase but highly unlikely this happened

Sic Lux wrote:Mates done this not long after lifted springs went in floged out centre bearing. look over whats been mentioned also when you fitted lift did the tailshaft come out of the slip yoke at all if it did it may be out of phase but highly unlikely this happened

Nah it didnt drop out, there was a slight vibration prior to lifting the rear its just that its alot worse now.

From looking at my manual it doesnt look like i need to go to a shop to replace the pinion seal and front bearing, but if i want to do the rear then the center has to come out.

but if the backlash is wrong when i do it up then it ight need to go to a shop.

Think ill replace the 2 uni's on monday they cost fark all so its worth doing and if that doesn work its no major loss.

Have also had a drive flange come loose, on back of transfer case so maybe check that. Also with the pinion seal if you do it just get a new nut then tourqe up to give right bearing pre-load

Sic Lux wrote:Have also had a drive flange come loose, on back of transfer case so maybe check that. Also with the pinion seal if you do it just get a new nut then tourqe up to give right bearing pre-load

in my manual it says you have to reshim something to alter the torque to get the backlash correct?

When building a diff you change pinion depth shims if you can't get correct contact between crown wheel and pinion with backlash in spec. If all you do is undo the pinion flange nut change the seal and torque it up it won't change the backlash too what it was previously if anything it'll take up some play from wear in the pinion bearings.

If he is getting vibrations and it is the pinion, won't that mean the bearing needs to be changed and the backlash need to be set properly ??

Yeah if pinion is moving up and down then chances are worn bearings if it's a daily then replace them and it's a little more in depth then. just grab both drive flanges and feel for play as i said mine was on the case which gave a bad vibe as it's just under you

Havent touched it yet, there is flooding everywhere so every spare second i get has been off paddling - awsome stuff around at the moment.

this weekend is gone too - maybe next ill get the chance to sort it out.

I have a feeling its the rear pinion and associated bearings which are giving me hassels - judging by the play up and down back there - as i can find no play in the unis at all.

hmmm. see how it goes.

ive got a vibration the same as you in my ln65 with a commo v6 and auto , once i get to 100 or over it vibrates then is worse when i release the go pedal back until about 90 . replaced the unis and still vibrating , next i suppose will get the diffs looked at .
i tried pulling the rear tailshaft out and drove it on just the front and vibration is there at 60 kmh so indicates to me front diff . but why would that vibrate in 2wd as its not in use ?

Another thing could be rear wheel ballance or tyre starting to go out of round. Just don't asume it won't be the problem, rule it out totaly. 2 wheel balances cheaper than rear dif and the way it normaly goes is it's last thing you look at and prob a $2 part if you don't work cheapest to most expensive.

Sic Lux wrote:Another thing could be rear wheel ballance or tyre starting to go out of round. Just don't asume it won't be the problem, rule it out totaly. 2 wheel balances cheaper than rear dif and the way it normaly goes is it's last thing you look at and prob a $2 part if you don't work cheapest to most expensive.

I might swap my other tyres on and see what its like - good call.

i had simular prob with my cruiser , i found that the front drive shaft uni was missing grease nipple & the uni,s where out of alignment