Outer Limits 4x4 Board

It is possible to modify the torque converter to gain engine braking as per manual transmission, anyone intrested in this?

MQ080 wrote:It is possible to modify the torque converter to gain engine braking as per manual transmission, anyone intrested in this?

Ive thought about one of them exhaust brake kits you see in Yota Mthly.. its another option, except they are 1100 and only 2inch 'zaust..

Landrover have adapted a down hill traction control for auto diesels,
as during descent most autos are not able to effectively transmit engine braking to 4 wheels as the torque converter allows slip at low speeds,
between engine output and the gear box input shaft.

Before descending wedge your foot on the accelerator at 1500 rpm and
keep it there, then with your left foot on the brake reduce the tacho reading to 800rpm.
This should produce more torque which forces the wheels to turn and also makes it harder for them to lock up, if they do just release the brake until you have steering control

td5/v8

I think you're all misunderstanding what MQ080 is saying! he is stating that it IS POSSIBLE to modify a torque converter to provide improved engine braking - and asking if anyone would be interested in that kind of modification to their torque converter.

(edit - I don't know what I'm talking about)

since MQ080 works in a torque converter rebuilding/modification shop, I assume he knows what he's talking about.


so to restate the question - would anyone be interested in a modified torque converter to provide improved engine braking from the automatic 4x4?

MQ080 wrote:It is possible to modify the torque converter to gain engine braking as per manual transmission, anyone intrested in this?

what are the downsides to this?

I'm interested!

ME TOO

Downside being most of the "coasting" charastics are lost when you take your foot off the gas- exactly the same as manual... I spose if you had cruise control it would be win win.

But as i stated earlier the advantages offroad are obvious

The reason for the question was that Kayver Engineering designed and manufactured a number of these converters about 10 years ago and were very successfull, one came into the shop last week and was still operating as good as the day it was made.
Todays converters lend themselves to this modification better than the older 3 speed transmissions so the thought was it may be of interest with some of the off roaders using autos today.

The way it works is a one way clutch is adapted to the turbine which will couple the turbine to the engine but only whilst the engine is in retard, a normal converter will not do this. Fitted it will operate as per a normal transmission on accelaration but will have the benifit of a manual.
Why manufactures have not adapted this into todays converters for off road use is something we cant answer.
The only other modification required would be the removal of the lock up system but in 4x4 autos it can be a blessing, With lock up wear is incresed by about 50% wearing out splines and generating extra heat when towing, the actual lock up lining is 2 mm thick and it does not take a great deal of slippage before it is running metal to metal resulting in a complete transmission overhaul,any one who has had problems with a lock up in a 4x4 knows they can set you back 1000s of dollars.

so are you saying it is not possible to modify my converter (TF 727) in this way.

If not...where do I sign

sounds interesting..

do you modify customers existing converters, or are you going to have "off the shelf" converters already done on a change over basis?

whats the price

Certainly give it some thought, will go well with my mods
on my 94 disco td5, am interested.


td5/v8

i just overhauled my whole auto

Now you tell me i can get a modified torque converter to stop my car goin 196585473mph down hill


Im still interested How much

Anthony

yeah rough price for rangie zf auto please

I think all these questions need to be answered by Lenny P hehehe

I'm seriously interested as i love the auto especially when climbing but downhill can be a real eye opener when the trip down is all mud
Considering that the auto just dies as well and I have to get a replacement now, I'm open to all sugestions.

MQ080 wrote:The reason for the question was that Kayver Engineering designed and manufactured a number of these converters about 10 years ago and were very successfull, one came into the shop last week and was still operating as good as the day it was made.
Todays converters lend themselves to this modification better than the older 3 speed transmissions so the thought was it may be of interest with some of the off roaders using autos today.

The way it works is a one way clutch is adapted to the turbine which will couple the turbine to the engine but only whilst the engine is in retard, a normal converter will not do this. Fitted it will operate as per a normal transmission on accelaration but will have the benifit of a manual.
Why manufactures have not adapted this into todays converters for off road use is something we cant answer.
The only other modification required would be the removal of the lock up system but in 4x4 autos it can be a blessing, With lock up wear is incresed by about 50% wearing out splines and generating extra heat when towing, the actual lock up lining is 2 mm thick and it does not take a great deal of slippage before it is running metal to metal resulting in a complete transmission overhaul,any one who has had problems with a lock up in a 4x4 knows they can set you back 1000s of dollars.

Thank you, very clear and well written, I have a had a Vitara 4 speed modified to have manual override on the lock up, but what you are proposing is heaps diferent to this, I have not yet fitted the auto to my Sierra, I may have to rethink.
Many years ago I had a L/C with a 400 SB and a de-stalled T/C in a T400, compresion braking on a slipery down hill was still very exiting
I looked very loosely at magnetic retarders and the like, and although they are made small enough for my aplication it was all a bit heavy in a zook.
You are obviously trying to determin if there is a market for these and don't yet have a product to sell, yet alone quote prices (corect me if I am wrong), good luck with your venture.
Peter.

It appears there is quite a bit of interest with this modification and if viable it will be a worthwhile venture,
To get the ball rolling we would be prepared modify a converter for FREE, as the feed back will be most important so if anyone is prepared to do the hard work in pulling your transmission out we will carry out the modifications.( Must be 4 speed Toyota Nissan or Range Rover)
We are not fly by nighters we have done warranty work for most of the vehicle manufacturers GMH, BTR, Mazda. Hyundai etc. most performance vehicles in Sydney use our converters.
been in the torque converter business for over 30 years so we know what we are doing. we are based in Sydney, if any one is interested first in first served.
Regarding costing. to overhaul a 4x4 lock up converter you are looking at about $300. To carry out the modifications will probably double this price.
So an all up cost would be in the vicinity of $600 plus GST.
It would not be a viable proposition to modify some 3 speed converters
Early Jeeps or Early Range Rovers with 727 Transmissions( Not enough room inside the converter to fit the sprag and cluch assembly)
Regards.
Len.

If a 4 speed Aisin Warner qualifiys, pick me Len, pick me, my converter is sitting on the bench ready to ship

I am away from the nerd box for a bit, give me a call
0417 118-881, or after lunch today 03 5777-0707
Peter.

I am contemplating this right now MQ080

How long will you have my POS converter for ? ? ? I am also on the gold coast is this OK by you ? ? ?

droopypete wrote:If a 4 speed Aisin Warner qualifiys, pick me Len, pick me, my converter is sitting on the bench ready to ship

I am away from the nerd box for a bit, give me a call
0417 118-881, or after lunch today 03 5777-0707
Peter.

Sorry Droopypete,

At this stage Aisian Warners are not feasable due to the fact that there is not enough area to fit the clutch in.

No offence AnthonyP but at this stage we are just looking for someone in the Sydney area so we can get a little more feed back and hands on testing. But if your still keen we would need to know all of the specs of the vehicle and box... How it would work is you pay for freight each way and we'll need the converter for about a week.

AnthonyP wrote:I am contemplating this right now MQ080

How long will you have my POS converter for ? ? ? I am also on the gold coast is this OK by you ? ? ?

Doh, just found your PM after my last post AnthonyP...

No offence taken

PM me if you want it and I will see how i go


And good luck hope it works out a treat as I asked the Auto repair joint b4 they did my overhauls if there was anything like that available and he said there wasnt anything he really new of...... maybe he didnt understand what i was getting at

i understand how it works but still a bit fuzzy on what type of trans you were asking for.

could a turbo 350, 400, 700 convertor be modified like this?

that was pretty much the only reason i didnt want a auto (engine braking)

id be interested if its possible to be used with a T700.

MaccA

383FJ45 wrote:i understand how it works but still a bit fuzzy on what type of trans you were asking for.

could a turbo 350, 400, 700 convertor be modified like this?

that was pretty much the only reason i didnt want a auto (engine braking)

id be interested if its possible to be used with a T700.

MaccA

Hi Macca.
The 700 would be the best to modify we have done the 400 and would think it possible to modify the 350.
Len.

Len,

You have emails

i have a t700 with convertor AND I'M IN SYDNEY! this is the spare for my hilux (fitted with v6) it would be cool to be a gunea pig for this venture. I have this ready to go if you still want one for testing..
Cheers Chris

awesome news. thanks len.

MaccA

roc70y wrote:i have a t700 with convertor AND I'M IN SYDNEY! this is the spare for my hilux (fitted with v6) it would be cool to be a gunea pig for this venture. I have this ready to go if you still want one for testing..
Cheers Chris

Hello Chris.
Thanks for the reply regarding converter, we have started with a ZF converter, where abouts are you in sydney? Cant see a problem with doing a V6 as well.
Len.

*cough* and a V8, 383 *cough*