Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I am after peoples thoughts on using a subaru water to air intercooler on a TD42 with schwitzer s2a turbo.

Running about 10 psi maybe up to 12 psi, 3" exhaust, std pump wound up.

No comp work, weekend toy and touring with camper.

Will it be big enough?

They are relatively cheap as an entire setup from importers and I am capable of modding to suit.

I have looked at frozen boost etc. but this will suit my budget better.

Anyone used one before?

No the inlet and outlet air side sizes?

Dazza

yep put one on my factory turbo saffari lots off people recon it looks factory untill i tell them what its off,has made a difference allong with a god tune and a 3inch exhaust lots of low down power on 35 inch simex tyres,very happy with mine

Id be interested in doing this too..

Are the kits relatively cheap from a wreckers etc?

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i paid $100 for the cooler,radiator,pump.the waterpipes run through the guard where the fule filter WAS and under inner guard tidy and clutter free

azzad wrote:No the inlet and outlet air side sizes?

I have one off an RS Liberty (99% sure).

Water lines are 16mm OD.

Small air fitting is 50mm OD.

Large air fitting is 70mm OD.

On mikes pictures, the larger air fitting is at the top, and the smaller one is on the bottom just under the edge of the cooler. The stock units also have a small recovery bottle located on the rear passengers-side of the cooler (looking at mikes pictures), mike has relocated his bottle up against the firewall just on the drivers side of the engine.

They're well built, i will probably use my one now its been brought up - its been sitting in aa box for 3-4 years!

EDIT: Just for other peoples reference:

Intercooler dimensions:
W: 400mm
L: 230mm
D: 160mm (add 15mm for the little radiator cap!)

Sweet; looks like I have a new project when krud pays out the stimulus $

I have seen them on ebay for under $300.

Will have to have a ring around and see what I can get locally.

My intention is to rework my existing filter, 2nd battery, overflow bottle and snorkel inlet to tidy it all up and improve inlet flow.

Mine is a high mount schwitzer and I reckon I will relocate the lower ic pipe to match up with the turbo better.

Thanks for the sizing, will have to have a bit of a measure up.

Dazza

Courtesy of autospeed.com.au

Just had a thought, coxy321, if you dont want to fit urs I will save you the trouble and fit it to mine

Mike, what dimentions is the heat exchanger?
Running a fan, aircon?

I have this intercooler fitted to my TB42i turbo but the heat exchanger is about as usefull as a heater core.

Thanks.
Al.

azzad wrote:Just had a thought, coxy321, if you dont want to fit urs I will save you the trouble and fit it to mine

Yeah right!!! I have enough trouble finding time to do my own shit let alone somebody elses!

I'll be running my car without an intercooler to start off, then no doubt i'll be organising the Subaru job as a bolt in. In the mean time, i'll have my eyes peeled for bits and pieces on eBay.

exchanger size,450mm x 300mm.and useing a/c fan i ditched all the aircon unit etc then got a a/c fan off a 97 saffari much supperior to my old one which was a 94 just a bit of triming of the grill was needed as it is slightly wider

mike barnett wrote:

So top image is the 'water tank' ???
Second pic is what is used to cool the water? if not, what is? and where is it?
and where do you find them for $100?

Top image is the actual IC with tank and fill points incorporated.

2nd image shows the coolant entering and leaving lines.

Last image shows the water pump.

There isnt a picture of his radiator but thats probablly coz its wedged behind the grille and hard to take pics of.

My concern is the actual capacity of the IC core; as in heat rejection capabilities.

Dazza

correct azzad radiator is behind the grill where a/c rad was but fan from a/c is still retained. i spaced out the bonnet hinges 12mm and ditched the rubber strip between bonnet and wippers and now looking at a scoop

mike barnett wrote:correct azzad radiator is behind the grill where a/c rad was but fan from a/c is still retained. i spaced out the bonnet hinges 12mm and ditched the rubber strip between bonnet and wippers and now looking at a scoop

so how big is the radiator for it? The suby one, or another one??
Any pics of it?

as above,bogged,450x300 cant do a decent picture unless i remove bullbar and grill sory directly behind a/c fan

as others have stated these intercoolers are off a gen 1 89 - 94 liberty rs and JDM legacy RS/GT.

intercoolers are capable of flowing 180 AWD KW at around 18psi on an ej20t

the front radiator is able to be upgraded easily, they sell larger ones on ebay which are around twice the size.

factory pumps flow around 18LPM on the high setting (in the subarus they have a low and high setting automatically switched by the ECU dependant on load) so you just run the pump on full using a relay, pumps can easily and cheaply have the bearings replaced.

i currently have 2 or 3 of the heat exchangers, 2 pumps but only one radiator.

these intercooler setups are far supirior to the air - air found on wrx's.

they can be found cheaply $100 - $200 over at http://www.rslibertyclub.org/forums

the sensor you see on the right hand side of the silver intercooler is a low water level sensor, black intercoolers do not have this.

naif wrote:the sensor you see on the right hand side of the silver intercooler is a low water level sensor, black intercoolers do not have this.

Mines a black one! I sneakily got a scalpel and cut off the "Subaru" writing on the sticker, so it should look even more factory when i fit it.

Thanks for posting the water flow rates too champ - i was going to ask that question next!!

How big are the factory Subaru water pumps?? Can someone post a pic with something beside it as a reference??

Cheers!

coxy321 wrote:

naif wrote:the sensor you see on the right hand side of the silver intercooler is a low water level sensor, black intercoolers do not have this.

Mines a black one! I sneakily got a scalpel and cut off the "Subaru" writing on the sticker, so it should look even more factory when i fit it.

Thanks for posting the water flow rates too champ - i was going to ask that question next!!

How big are the factory Subaru water pumps?? Can someone post a pic with something beside it as a reference??

Cheers!

the pump is about the size of a starter motor, is can be seen in this pic

Thanks for the info naif.

Are you using one on anything other than a subaru?

Dazza

im not using one on my subaru liberty conversion any longer as i upgraded to a FMIC.

i was considering using one on my 93 GQ patrol when i put the turbo on the TB42, but am unsure on if it will have the cooling capacity, although i am only planning to run 8psi on the t3/t4.

also early toyota celica's run WAIC's around the 88 model, heres some information

http://www.alltrac.net/tuning/intercool ... efficiency

naif wrote:

coxy321 wrote:

naif wrote:the sensor you see on the right hand side of the silver intercooler is a low water level sensor, black intercoolers do not have this.

Mines a black one! I sneakily got a scalpel and cut off the "Subaru" writing on the sticker, so it should look even more factory when i fit it.

Thanks for posting the water flow rates too champ - i was going to ask that question next!!

How big are the factory Subaru water pumps?? Can someone post a pic with something beside it as a reference??

Cheers!

the pump is about the size of a starter motor, is can be seen in this pic

I'll have to find something a bit smaller - thats huge!!

its not that big, it can be seen in this ebay link, you would be able to compare the size to the other parts of the waic.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/SUBARU-INTERCOOL ... 240%3A1318

if you dont have a pump whitworths marine sell an 18lpm pump which gives the dimensions. http://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemd ... lutePage=1

davis craig also sell a suitable pump but only flows 15lpm and is around $200 http://www.daviescraig.com.au/main/display.asp?pid=27

coxy321 wrote:I'll have to find something a bit smaller - thats huge!!

Wouldnt you need the larger flow rate?

naif wrote:its not that big, it can be seen in this ebay link, you would be able to compare the size to the other parts of the waic.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/SUBARU-INTERCOOL ... 240%3A1318

if you dont have a pump whitworths marine sell an 18lpm pump which gives the dimensions. http://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemd ... lutePage=1

davis craig also sell a suitable pump but only flows 15lpm and is around $200 http://www.daviescraig.com.au/main/display.asp?pid=27

OR
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/DAVIES-CRAIG-ELE ... dZViewItem

OR
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/FORD-RACING-NEW- ... dZViewItem

bogged wrote:

coxy321 wrote:I'll have to find something a bit smaller - thats huge!!

Wouldnt you need the larger flow rate?

Not sure - this debate was covered in the original Laminova thread. Subaru ran 15L/min or 18L/min in theirs, and from what i can find the Laminova setups are running the smaller 80L/min DC units.

I'm not too sure how flow play into this comparison though as the suby and laminova coolers are worlds apart.

Think about this though, at 20L/min, that is passing 1L of water through every 3 seconds. So with that in mind, i would say something closer to 50-60L/min would be better.

If your water flow is too fast it will not have time to disipate the heat from the air through the IC too the water. The engineers at Toyota and Subaru would have calculated that out when they designed the system. I would use there factory water pump and larger heat exchanger. I would be more concerned about your heat exchanger size and the ability of the IC to maintain temperature for those long hills that max out your EGT's. Read about the ARE cooling set up and his water flow calculations where he is using 2x 1" pipe for 250RWHP. I personaly think 3/4" is ideal for your aplication and the frozen boost heat exchanger with the bosch pump would be perfect. What size are the fittings on the Subaru/ Toyota IC's. That will give you an idear what to us aswell, as the flow will depent on the size of the smallest restriction in the system. If your using it for touring you want to be able to sustain a good even temperature so water capacity of the system is also a consideration. Mine holds 10ltrs and has never been over 65deg C with the frozen boost heat exchanger.

300WinMag wrote:If your water flow is too fast it will not have time to disipate the heat from the air through the IC too the water. The engineers at Toyota and Subaru would have calculated that out when they designed the system. I would use there factory water pump and larger heat exchanger. I would be more concerned about your heat exchanger size and the ability of the IC to maintain temperature for those long hills that max out your EGT's. Read about the ARE cooling set up and his water flow calculations where he is using 2x 1" pipe for 250RWHP. I personaly think 3/4" is ideal for your aplication and the frozen boost heat exchanger with the bosch pump would be perfect. What size are the fittings on the Subaru/ Toyota IC's. That will give you an idear what to us aswell, as the flow will depent on the size of the smallest restriction in the system. If your using it for touring you want to be able to sustain a good even temperature so water capacity of the system is also a consideration. Mine holds 10ltrs and has never been over 65deg C with the frozen boost heat exchanger.

I posted all of the IC specs further up the page. If i pull my finger out i might be able to do some testing with these subaru units when i get the turbo happening.

Just a thought on my way home tonight too. More coolant in a W/A system will allow for more heat to be absorbed, so what if you were to run two heat exchangers in series?? I was thinking maybe one mounted up top-mount GU style (possibly off to the drivers side away from the heat) with a small fan to pull air from outside and through the radiator (this would get plenty of fresh air at speeds over 60km/h), and a half or full width transfer at the front behind the grill.

I know there's plenty of guys running high-mount converted low-mount bars, and a full width heat transfer in the front is not an option (me included).

There were some water flow "theories" thrown around in the laminova thread, and as far as matt and Laminova are concerned, 80-110L/min was more or less spot-on. But like i said, the two intercoolers are completely different, and i'm not sure how water flow speed will play into these Subaru setups.

I'm sure a google on modded Suby setups would bring something up - but i cant be bothered atm.

Yes hooked up in series would work well same theory as triple flow radiator, giving the water more time to transfer heat to the air flow and more volume. I was thinking the same idear for my set up when I put the bigger fuel pump on to keep the temp down. Matts laminova setup is totaly different as it uses four cores and hoses, it needs more flow. He also is using a small car radiator so his heat exchanger is high capacity and flow. Not sure if you have seen my set up so heres piture. It is hard to tell from picture but it is a two stage intercooler, with four cores, air flow dividers, water flow dividers. The coldest water flows through the inlet side first then through the turbo side and out to the heat exchanger.
Cold side sits at 4Deg C above ambient at 110km/hr, EGT 200- 250 deg C depending on ambient temp. With 3/4" ID hose.