Outer Limits 4x4 Board

hi guys,

I know this issue gets covered alot, but I really need to figure out if i am pushing shit uphill with my shorty.

Basically it is a turbo tb42, 3 inch intercooler, A/C core in place, high mount with cheezy bar and the A/C is moved back about 10-15mm so the whole setup didnt need the cheezy bar moved forward - approach angle and all that.

The temp used to rise up on long hills and especially on sand, with the ac on, it got much worse.

I just changed from a clutch fan which was a bit stuffed and the bottom part of the shroud was missing after the bodylift, to a set of el thermos, which work great at idle wired through the motec, but didnt help the thing when it is cruising along, definately didnt help with the A/C on.

I thought about moving the rad further into the engine bay to give it some space from the ac but i cant decide if that wold help or hinder as the flow at speed would probably get worse.

I have bled the thing for a long time, and cleaned the fins of mud etc and the radiator is only 10,000 ks from brand new.

I has a gu scoop over the turb, not that it helps much i guess.


If anyone has any real world experience with my problems, please let me know, as my next move is to start ripping things off until the problems goes away.
I would luv to keep the ac as i now live in the gold coast.



cheers

sorry no real world experience but i give u my 2c anyway.

you say the thermo's are run by your motec, does the motec know when your a/c is on to start the fans?? fans should always run with a/c on!

you could set your thermos to start at a lower temp??? or wire in an on/off switch for when u playing on the sand/hills

lower temp thermostat will help initially with smaller hills but wont fix it on long ones/sand/air-con, for 10 bux and 10 mins why not

to do it on the cheep try making up some plastic shrouds that connect from your cooler back to the radiator to help direct airflow through the radiator,

or you could back off the timing/boost and pump up the fuel (you will loose power and economy) and im sure you dont want to go backwards

im guessing although your rad is only 10k old its still standard sized??

probably if all else fails you will need to fork out for a bigger and better radiator.

ps, moving the radiator back will probably make it worse as the air can go around the radiator not through. you want the rad,ac and cooler as close as possible and sealed along the sides (as mentioned above) to force the air through.

hope this helps

jacked,

I take your points.

To do with the motec and the ac, it doesnt really matter as the fans are on most of the time when cruising anyway. to be honest the issue bigger than the ac at the moment, even without the problem is very much there.

i had thought of shrouding the edges of the cores so as air was forced through, but i also thought the ac core was heating up the rad when the ac was on, not sure if that is likely or not.

I have tried the timing, didnt make any difference I could tell,

the issue is there when cruising lightly at 60 k's. the fan needs to be on most of the time and the air temps can be really high also saying to me that the flow through all the cores is very low.

I must admit when you look at the front end you do sort of wonder how the air is gonna get through all that.

But i really want to keep all the things that are up the front, so maybe the bigger rad is the only way to go.

Who is making the best rads these days?

Is a diesel rad that much better? Maybe that would help?

cheers

I have a heat exchanger for my water IC in front of my AC, and I upgraded to a 3 core radiator and new viscus fan hub from nissan genuin parts for my TD 42. Up big long hills towing temp stays about half on the gauge which is well within nomal operating temp range. I also gave my cooling system a complete flush with Nulon radiator flush and have new water pump thermostat and hoses, no problems now. The non genuin fan hubs are shit. Also I cut the guts out of my grill and replaced it with perferated mesh from super crap, worked out I doubled my air flow.

If you have any room in front of your IC you could set up your fans to push air through and put your engine fan back on. Can you post pics.

My advice would be if you have done all the above then get a Aussie desert cooler tripple flow radiator and if that doesn't fix it you have big problems.

I have a TB42 turbo with standard radiator and with temps being in the low forties lately it still did not go over half even with the aircon on.
I don't have a heat exchanger so maybe it is this restricting air flow.
My cooling system is all standard including fan.

Al.

maybe something like a big PWR radiator.

a/c wouldnt be putting too much heat into the rad. the cooler would be doing most.

how old is your water pump??? the vanes could be rusted out on it.

could be a headgasket issue, could be a tuneing issue.

how hot is it actually getting???

Nige,

check out this thread.

http://forum.mudrhino.com.au/viewtopic. ... &start=180

Try it without the winch on

sounds like air flow,

ditch the thermos for a known good working std fan and see if that helps also.

i am gonna try pulling the front bar off first, but even if that does work, it doesnt help me as i need it back on.

lockee, good thread, the bonnet mod had crossed my mind.

With the clutch fan setups, what do people do with the plastic lower section that needs to be removed when a bodylift is done?

Other mod is to lower radiator the two inches you have body lifted so radiator is in line with the fan and refit the lower shroud.

Have you fitted an independant gauge rather than unreliable nissan one. My old carby car would get to the top of the gauge but not boil.

I Have a tb42 Turbo , with 75mm front mount , A/C still on , standard radiator . Gets to 3/4 if pushed hard for a long period but cools as soon as I back off . Do you have a gap between each unit , I have about 20 mm between rad & A/C , A/C & intercooler . No body lift and both fan shrouds still on . You need a genuine fan hub and thermostat .
I have fittedthermo fans to the front of the inter cooler for low speed work to keep inlet temp down.
Also have scoop over turbo and rear of bonnet raised about 15mm.
Running a High mount turbo with heat beenie and heat shields over exhaust .
Hope there may be something in my set up to help you out.

Have fitted the PWR radiator to others in the past , they work well .

hiy6o, thanks for the info,

It is now on gas, and that seemed to make it worse, but it still never liked being on the dyno, or long hills etc. I am now starting to think the old fan was rooted, the new thermos are crap, and if i just go back to a properly working setup it may fix most of the issues.
Either way, if i end needing to go a bigger rad, its still gonna need the correct fan setup anyway.

is your bonnet scoop facing forwards?

Lifting the back of the bonnet was a weekend plan, i know it could take your head off in an accident, but if it works i will figure out a safe option for the long term.

looks like the thermos may be ditched for a new clutch fan setup!

Anyone know a good cheap nissan in the SE QLD area?

Shifty Trev will send to you.

Try lowering the radiator also.

Quadcamshorty wrote:is your bonnet scoop facing forwards?

interesting thread on patrol forum bout this from Roachie.

He did some testing with forward/backwards scoop, and few bits of wool to see what sort of air flow he got thru the scoop.. Not suprising but opening to the screen was far more effective and sucking in air than the other way...

bogged wrote:

Quadcamshorty wrote:is your bonnet scoop facing forwards?

interesting thread on patrol forum bout this from Roachie.

He did some testing with forward/backwards scoop, and few bits of wool to see what sort of air flow he got thru the scoop.. Not suprising but opening to the screen was far more effective and sucking in air than the other way...

So having the scoop backwards in ldumbass terms bogged?

My Scoop faces forward with duct towards the turbo , I figured with the back of the bonnet up would give somewhere for the scoop air to flow out .
Definately let the heat out of the rear of the bonnet you can see the haze when stopped .

does anyone truely beleive that i can stay with thermos?

I just went to trouble of mounting and wiring, i'd hate to pull them out then find another issue and i do like the idea of thermos as you can turn them on and off depending on the situation.

I think thermos push better that pull.

Mine is on gas and yes the rear of the bonnet is raised also.

I bought this of my father and it did overheat regularly till the radiator was recoed, now no problems.

Al.

Quadcamshorty wrote:does anyone truely beleive that i can stay with thermos?

I just went to trouble of mounting and wiring, i'd hate to pull them out then find another issue and i do like the idea of thermos as you can turn them on and off depending on the situation.

I've read plenty of threads where they die when they get muddy...

Just change 1 thing at a time.. dont go changing 10 things, or you never know what works/doesnt.
If it doesnt work, then IMWO, remove it, it hasnt done anything so isnt the issue.

Found it here..

http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/showthre ... oop+bonnet

Quadcamshorty,
I also have a problem with a turbo TB42 that would overheat on long hills
or pretty much anytime it was under load and i tried bonnet scoops, lifting
the back of the bonnet, thermo fans, pwr alloy radiator removing spotties, grill and a/c condensor just to name a few but nothing seemed to fix it..I ended up pulling the turbo off and taking it to rotomaster here in Melb and was told that the exhaust housing on the turbo was too restrictive for this size of engine and would be causing excess back pressure which would cause overheating under load.
I am using a GT28 that had a .64 exhaust housing that has now been changed to a .86
I havent got it back together yet cause im doin a few head mods and im waiting for the head to come back but i hope this fixes my problem.
Dont know what turbo you are using or if this info would apply to your set up but if all else fails then it maybe worth looking into.... Goodluck with it.

evman, thanks for the info. I have a high flowed t3/t4 with a 0.84 rear housing.
Although it was originally meant for a smaller capacity motor (VL 3litre), you wouldnt think it would be the issue.

I'm gonna double check the temps from my ecu and dash gauge with a infrared temp gun today and see exactly where we are at.

Then i'm gonna try the bonnet lift, new nissan thermostat, has a bursons job in there now, then front bar off.


cheers.

I have a .86 exhaust housing GT30/76 turbo so I wouldn't think it would be the restriction as I have no overheat issues. Did run hotter with the 1st turbo was a t3/t4 .6 housing from memory. Ran out of boost above 4000rpm.

Not enough airflow through the radiator. Patrols a known to have a cramped engine bay, and a stinking hot turbo with a front mount IC makes it worse. You need to have the smallest IC that works for your engine, based on intake temps. Bigger isn't better. Seal up the gaps around the radiator to the radiator support so any air comming into the grille has to pass through the radiator and wont escape around it.

you won't get any airflow if the air has no where to go. i was recently driving a car without a windscreen and with the windows up it wasn't that windy. with them down it was obviously very windy.

when you're moving at high speeds it should need the fan as the rad should be getting enough air flow anyway. maybe try a few wholes cut in the rear of the bonnet. also lifting the rear of the bonnet could help aswell.