Outer Limits 4x4 Board

so the time came to upgrade my radiator.

after wandering in and out of a few radiator place looking for quotes to get a multi core version of the original made i came across one that was all aluminium ,cross flow about 100mm thick and pretty close to the sierra stock rad size. it turns out the unit is off a john deere ride on mower haha. with a bit of lateral thinking i ended up sinking it down and pushing it forward so it fits basically under the beaver panel and as far forward as it can up against the grill. i used an AW11 (MR2) remote radiator cap setup , and just capped the overflow outlet on the ali rad.

i had it all in there as it was, all shiny etc but alas it looked just like a huge intercooler shaped banner saying "PICK ME" so i painted the front with a light coat of matt black at the end.

also in doing this the other advantage is that i have increased my coolant fluid capacity to about 6.5L .

images:














radiator : secondhand $180
bottom top hose : VT commodore lower hose $18
top top hose : flexi generic hose $24
AW11 remote cap setup : $10

Good work dude love the creative thinking.

can you get me a part number for that radiator cause that would suit my GTi motor perfect

cheers PJ

GRPABT1 : will do my best, he did have another one there on the shelf

I like it, I need to upgrade mine as well, looking forward to the part number.

Yeah but perth is a long way away lol. Did you get it from a radiator shop or tractor shop? I have a made who works for a radiator supplier so if I get a part number I should find one.

it was just a radiator shop down the road from where i work. i will try to go past on monday , he was interested in how i was going to fit it and said he would be keen to see it after

Nice work. I fitted an ally jimny radiator into my sierra, works a treat but i need to have another look at it since i upgraded the engine. Did you use rubber mounts for that rad??

Awesome work man. I'd really appreciate it if you could source a part number or what mower model it came off too. I think I'll need some extra cooling as I'm adding a supercharger and since its shorter than stock I'll finally get some clearance between the rad and power steering box.

Cheers,

John

GRPABT1 wrote:Yeah but perth is a long way away lol. Did you get it from a radiator shop or tractor shop? I have a made who works for a radiator supplier so if I get a part number I should find one.

Hybrid wrote:Awesome work man. I'd really appreciate it if you could source a part number or what mower model it came off too. I think I'll need some extra cooling as I'm adding a supercharger and since its shorter than stock I'll finally get some clearance between the rad and power steering box.

Cheers,

John

ok i wandered in there today and got the info off of the other one he had on the shelf . mine didnt have any markings on it.

as it was on the sticker:

TCD P/N 04-0570

...........AMT 1849


the bottom left of the sticker was damaged and unreadable. there was a date scribed onto the top plate which was 06-03-99 (i would think by logic that this was a build date )

the owner of the rad shop (west coast radiators baretta rd wangara) said that if you called up chamberlain john deere with that info you will have no probs getting one for new . god help you if you find out what they are worth new, i sure as hell wouldnt want to know hahha.


if anybody is super keen and cant hunt one down, shoot me a PM and we could work something out, as he still has one in stock for what i paid ($180)

Bron5on wrote:Nice work. I fitted an ally jimny radiator into my sierra, works a treat but i need to have another look at it since i upgraded the engine. Did you use rubber mounts for that rad??

no, i didnt use any rubber mounts. the only real mount is the plate you can see in the 3rd image which 2x 12mm bolts go through to secure the core. at the bottom i have a couple of self tappers going in to the plastic undertray just for piece of mind. i was worried about vibrations causing probable damage to the tanks/seals . its pretty solid and i have taken it for a bash in the dunes and down the beach. actually i may note that i basically held my foot flat to the boards for about 5 minutes in 4L down a very soft and sinky beach non stop for at least 5 minutes (its quite a long time) and the needle on my temp gauge teetered between 90-95 degrees. when i pulled up it sat on 95 for about a minute then slowly came down to 75-80ish (i have a 71deg thermostat and a 430cfm fan).

i was actually going to make one whole plate up that bolted to the body , then bolt the rad to that but i left the side open as i will be fitting an oil cooler in there.

A point worth noting:
A radiator needs to sit higher than the auto choke, or it will run dry and stick on. Can cause air locks in system, too.
A header tank can solve that issue, as can a manual choke.

Discivered this when fitting a 1.3 but still using a 1.o radiator.

Best to ask a radiator expert, though, as I could be talking out my arm.

edit: lookin at pix I think you've already solved that.

yeah, the cap or a manual bleeder needs to be the highest point. this is why i used the AW11 remote cap and blocked off the existing one. i thought of using a header tank but basically i have loads of corolla and MR2 parts stored , and it seemed a neater option.

also in my case , the 4ac doesnt have a water sensed choke so it wasnt a factor at the time . well pointed out though thanks it may help somebody else

Adsport wrote:yeah, the cap or a manual bleeder needs to be the highest point. this is why i used the AW11 remote cap and blocked off the existing one.

It is great idea, very flexible mounting possibilities for a variety of eng/rad options

Thanks for the info ADS. I think you'd be right about the new price being pretty scary. If only Perth wasn't further away than the moon hehe.

Got two radiator dudes chasing it up, john deere website was no help

I don't want to sound negative, and Adsport, if it does the job for you all the better, but I'm not sure this is the best radiator for the job.

Yes, it's vastly thick, and it is cross flow, but there's no way the way that radiator is mounted is ideal. It's going to see masses of vibration in that application the mounts weren't intended for.

The radiator doesn't have much more surface area, but the added depth is going to make it a nightmare to clean mud out of.
Additionally, the thermo is only pulling through a small amount of the radiator. You'll note that in OEM applications, the fans are nearly always shrouded to pull air though the whole core, not just in front of the blades.

Like I said, if it works for you Adsport, that's great, but IMHO, I wouldn't be racing out to find one. The ftment looks too compromised for me.

PS as an aside, I've just rear mounted a camry radiator and thermos, along with Bosch EWP's behind my cab and it's working very well. Pick-A-Part here in Vic charge about $80 for a radiator with warranty, and about $30 each for Thermo fans.

Even a vitara radiator isn't that hard to fit in a sierra.

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:I don't want to sound negative, and Adsport, if it does the job for you all the better, but I'm not sure this is the best radiator for the job.

Yes, it's vastly thick, and it is cross flow, but there's no way the way that radiator is mounted is ideal. It's going to see masses of vibration in that application the mounts weren't intended for.

The radiator doesn't have much more surface area, but the added depth is going to make it a nightmare to clean mud out of.
Additionally, the thermo is only pulling through a small amount of the radiator. You'll note that in OEM applications, the fans are nearly always shrouded to pull air though the whole core, not just in front of the blades.

Like I said, if it works for you Adsport, that's great, but IMHO, I wouldn't be racing out to find one. The ftment looks too compromised for me.

PS as an aside, I've just rear mounted a camry radiator and thermos, along with Bosch EWP's behind my cab and it's working very well. Pick-A-Part here in Vic charge about $80 for a radiator with warranty, and about $30 each for Thermo fans.

Even a vitara radiator isn't that hard to fit in a sierra.

Steve.

Just as an aside, I purchased a new SV21 camry radiator a while back for $140

Here I go again behaving like a hater, but we've had one member with a non suzuki motor in a car drive for 5 minutes in the sand in 4L, the car gained 20deg of coolant temperature, and there's a few people all excited about trying one?

Like I said, this is no reflection on Adsport at all, but I don't think that's stellar cooling performance. With adsports setup, it's impossible to tell how that would translate as an upgrade into a sierra motor ( or any other motor) in a sierra with a mechanical fan, so we're really not talking science here- There's no way Adsports findings either support or condemn using this radiator in a sierra as a useful upgrade.

And as both Love_Mud and my information has indicated, for a radiator that's a bit of a hacky fit, it's not a cheap upgrade.

Again, plase take this the right way, esp Adsport, but I think more information would be required before I was convinced this was a great swap.

Steve.

I know where your coming from Steve but unless someone with an engine driven fan and a suitable shroud tries it nobody will ever know (the thermo and lack of shroud being the main thing that could be causing the 20 degree change in my opinion). What made you go with the rear mount camry radiator? Is it something that has been proven in the past?

yes can i see pics of it on your tray (pm if needed) steve

thanks

Gwagensteve wrote:I don't want to sound negative, and Adsport, if it does the job for you all the better, but I'm not sure this is the best radiator for the job.

Yes, it's vastly thick, and it is cross flow, but there's no way the way that radiator is mounted is ideal. It's going to see masses of vibration in that application the mounts weren't intended for.

The radiator doesn't have much more surface area, but the added depth is going to make it a nightmare to clean mud out of.
Additionally, the thermo is only pulling through a small amount of the radiator. You'll note that in OEM applications, the fans are nearly always shrouded to pull air though the whole core, not just in front of the blades.

Like I said, if it works for you Adsport, that's great, but IMHO, I wouldn't be racing out to find one. The ftment looks too compromised for me.

PS as an aside, I've just rear mounted a camry radiator and thermos, along with Bosch EWP's behind my cab and it's working very well. Pick-A-Part here in Vic charge about $80 for a radiator with warranty, and about $30 each for Thermo fans.

Even a vitara radiator isn't that hard to fit in a sierra.

Steve.

cheers for the constructive addition gwagensteve . i just figured i that i may awsell share the work ive done and support it with as many facts as i can provide, and i do see your points they are very valid. i have seen your posts before and i must admit i am a fan of your logic. the internet often makes people assume that everyone who replies in a straightforward way is a self absorbed egotistical wanker who thinks he knows everything . i realise this because i get it myself so i try my best to analyze people's comments before thinking they are just smashing their keyboard .


the standard radiator is not rubber mounted? do you think that the way its mounted from factory may absorb some or more or enough vibration so that its not damaged?


the thermo fan is 10" and flows 430cfm, on the advice of the radiator shop owner and the lack of room i have to work with i wasnt able to use the shroud that i actually did make for it. the fan would cover at least 70% of the core. i have no doubt that with a sierra setup an engine drive fan would clear the space and you could fit a shroud. the absolute front of my motor is only 70mm away from the rad core, so i dont have a lot of room to work with. the motor is set there to avoid severely modifying my drivetrain to get the 4A in.

Gwagensteve wrote:Here I go again behaving like a hater, but we've had one member with a non suzuki motor in a car drive for 5 minutes in the sand in 4L, the car gained 20deg of coolant temperature, and there's a few people all excited about trying one?

Like I said, this is no reflection on Adsport at all, but I don't think that's stellar cooling performance. With adsports setup, it's impossible to tell how that would translate as an upgrade into a sierra motor ( or any other motor) in a sierra with a mechanical fan, so we're really not talking science here- There's no way Adsports findings either support or condemn using this radiator in a sierra as a useful upgrade.

And as both Love_Mud and my information has indicated, for a radiator that's a bit of a hacky fit, it's not a cheap upgrade.

Again, plase take this the right way, esp Adsport, but I think more information would be required before I was convinced this was a great swap.

Steve.

well it usually runs at 80-85deg, most thermostat's are 81-84deg opening so in reality its only a 10deg jump on anything else. i was absolutely flat piss belting the shit out of it though i must say.... i have no mercy for the 4AC AT ALL somewhat because i have 3 spares, and i have a mostly assembled 7AG that i will be putting in. this motor also had cooling issues from the get go so that could also be a contributing factor in the performance as it stands.

the engine also is set to run very lean, and has had a lot of heat problems in the past due to this. im not using the correct (larger) secondary jet because of overfuelling when crawling on rocks.

a friends patrol (safari) often peaks at 110-120 when doing less work on the same beach, and i have had to stop for him to let his cooling system recover. remember that the boiling point of coolant is significantly higher than straight water aswell, and it is under pressure so this lifts it more thus the car is far from boiling over or cooking itself.

it may look or seem a bit hacky but all of my pictures are usually taken mid job and dont really reflect the end product in all its dimensions. i have had a few people comment on how neat it has turned out.


I could have really just posted the dimensions and mounting procedure in its basic form but i thought i would give a bit extra and throw out all the information i could provide. that said, if anybody wants any further particulars then ask away.

Hybrid wrote:I know where your coming from Steve but unless someone with an engine driven fan and a suitable shroud tries it nobody will ever know (the thermo and lack of shroud being the main thing that could be causing the 20 degree change in my opinion).

yeah this is true, but as noted up previously although i do have a low opening thermostat it doesnt necessarily dictate my running temp. if left on , the fan will often pull the temp down to 60 on its own under road driving. and before anyone asks why its manual , its so i can turn it off when doing water crossings so my fan doesnt smash itself to bits like my stock suzi one did lol.

actually i would like to add that since having an aftermarket temp meter, sometimes i get bored and pay attention to where the stock needle is in relation to the new gauge. i can get it to 60 degrees before the stock needle even begins to move usually, sometimes 60deg will be the middle of the dash. sometimes i will be at 80 at the middle of the dash. i have had it at 110deg (old busted up rad) with the dash needle at 3/4, and its been all the way in the red on instance where the meter showed 95deg. standard gauges are NOT accurate and are only a guess at best.

I'll be using a 12" thermo fan and mounting mine with some sort of rubber mount. I will add a shroud if needs be. But I think this will be better than my current 1.3 radiator and 12 inch thermo un shrouded, even if purely cause it is alloy.

Adsport wrote:the standard radiator is not rubber mounted? do you think that the way its mounted from factory may absorb some or more or enough vibration so that its not damaged?

I would definitely try to rubber mount it ADSport. Aluminium hates vibrations. It fatigues and cracks a hell of a lot faster than old radiators. I don't think mounting it like the stock radiator would reduce the vibes either. I think it would make it worse as the old mounts run straight to the chassis. At least you should have a little bit of damping through the body mount rubbers where you've got it currently mounted. Since the stock radiator wasn't aluminium there was no real nead to provide a mounting system that greatly damps vibrations. The other thing to worry about is the changes in movement between the plastic shroud at the bottom and the body at the top. That could be adding additional strain to the aluminium. I reckon your best bet would be to make some rubber isolated mounts up that either fix both top and bottom or left and right to the body. Those are just my thoughts though. I'm sure as hell no engineer.

Any chance of finding out what model ride on it came from? My mate who works for cooldrive doesn't have any listing for that part number but he has quite a few John deere's in the database.

i will see what i can do

Just as a side note, shouldn't all ally radiators be rubber (or some other non-conducting material) mounted?? I was led to believe that ally radiators mounted to the body or chassis can corrode or oxidise due to current passing through them. Or have i been mislead?? I hope not, I played for ages trying to isolate the mounts on my ally radiator!

Bron5on wrote:Just as a side note, shouldn't all ally radiators be rubber (or some other non-conducting material) mounted?? I was led to believe that ally radiators mounted to the body or chassis can corrode or oxidise due to current passing through them. Or have i been mislead?? I hope not, I played for ages trying to isolate the mounts on my ally radiator!

The reason for rubber mounting as far as I know is to dampen the vibrations through the ally radiators. Aluminium fatigues very quickly. I doubt it would be a corrosion problem (galvanic) as generally alum oxidizes quickly. The layer of oxide then protects it from further corrosion. When you think about it theres plenty of other applications where aluminium is attached directly to your steel chassis not causing corrosion problems.

Hybrid wrote:

Bron5on wrote:Just as a side note, shouldn't all ally radiators be rubber (or some other non-conducting material) mounted?? I was led to believe that ally radiators mounted to the body or chassis can corrode or oxidise due to current passing through them. Or have i been mislead?? I hope not, I played for ages trying to isolate the mounts on my ally radiator!

The reason for rubber mounting as far as I know is to dampen the vibrations through the ally radiators. Aluminium fatigues very quickly. I doubt it would be a corrosion problem (galvanic) as generally alum oxidizes quickly. The layer of oxide then protects it from further corrosion. When you think about it theres plenty of other applications where aluminium is attached directly to your steel chassis not causing corrosion problems.

I may have to do some more reserch. I'm sure my autosparky mate mentioned it too tho. And the jimny ally rad I used had plastic mounts which wouldn't have reduced vibration but kept the ally from touching steel. I know if you leave a fish hook laying in the bottom of an ally boat it'll eat thru the floor but that's not really the same thing. Plus newer ally is prolly a little more resistant to that sort of corrosion. I will ask around and see what I come up with!

Bron5on wrote:

Hybrid wrote:

Bron5on wrote:Just as a side note, shouldn't all ally radiators be rubber (or some other non-conducting material) mounted?? I was led to believe that ally radiators mounted to the body or chassis can corrode or oxidise due to current passing through them. Or have i been mislead?? I hope not, I played for ages trying to isolate the mounts on my ally radiator!

The reason for rubber mounting as far as I know is to dampen the vibrations through the ally radiators. Aluminium fatigues very quickly. I doubt it would be a corrosion problem (galvanic) as generally alum oxidizes quickly. The layer of oxide then protects it from further corrosion. When you think about it theres plenty of other applications where aluminium is attached directly to your steel chassis not causing corrosion problems.

I may have to do some more reserch. I'm sure my autosparky mate mentioned it too tho. And the jimny ally rad I used had plastic mounts which wouldn't have reduced vibration but kept the ally from touching steel. I know if you leave a fish hook laying in the bottom of an ally boat it'll eat thru the floor but that's not really the same thing. Plus newer ally is prolly a little more resistant to that sort of corrosion. I will ask around and see what I come up with!

I'd be interested to find out. I always thought it was for the vibrations. I'm a builder and we often fix aluminium louvered screens direct to the steel building frame too. Once again thats not the same as the environment in a car with an earthed body though.