Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey all, Im thinking about running 33s on my sierra. I like my cars to be reliable, how badly will 33s effect this. My t/case had TG 6.5.1s so there is no issue there. Ive broken a side gear and twisted axles with 31s, but that was before a rear lokka. Its setup for the rocks and i try to drive as slow as possiable. Has anyone run 33s and TGs gears, the rest of the drive terrain is standard.

Josh

i ran 33's with lokkas and transfer gears. Went in a comp and a couple of trips before breaking 3 axles in one go, i was running simex JT2's
I think if you only had a rear lokka and all terrains you would get a fair bit of life out of it. Otherwise carry a spare set of axles

DoubleTough/Spidertrax front axles & CV's

Rear airlocker in the front

Solid spacers instead of the pinion crush sleeves

With the added traction of the 33's, you shoudln't need to hit stuff as hard, so your rear axles should hold up unless you are really getting on it.

Your option then would be to try Calmini CrMo rear axles, I have no experience with these though.

Amongst the bunch of us running big cars in the vic club, were running 35's and over, EFI's and autos/lots of gears/lockers and we've had a couple of rear axles go on us, along with a rear R&P. We've gone to EN-26 axle material, with a full floating conversion based on a Vitara rear diff, cut down, shaved and flipped.

This is an expensive option, but will is the strongest way we can think of building a suzuki based rear diff. This should not be necessary with a 33, but driving style would have alot to do with this.

Basically though, with Doubletoughs and solid spacers in the pinions, I'd say you'll be reliable with 33's.

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote: Your option then would be to try Calmini CrMo rear axles, I have no experience with these though.

I tried a set of these, see below

Long side


Short side

^^ bloody hell!!!! whats the back story behind that?

I run 33" mudders on my zook diffs, i have a detroit rear, and a air locka front, i also have chro mo cv,s and hi tuff chro mo rear axles...

I give it a floggin, drive it like i stole it

I have had no probs so far, (touch wood)

So my answer is yes, its possible....

I've got 32 Pede's which measure 33, 5.14 Calmini Transfer gears, rear Lockright and everything else stock and haven't broken anything yet. That may change soon though as I am about to lock the front with stock front axles.

Im running 32 mongrels with a front locker , 6.5 gears and standard front and rear axles without a breakage for 12 months.I always carry a spare set of front axles because I will break them one day but if you drive with care and avoid bouncing the car up an obstacle you should be ok

Thank you all so very much. HYZOOK your car looked great in the custom action mag. How did you break those??? They were spose to be the tuffest axles you could buy.

Ok so it seems that its all up to how you drive it. Ill be putting in a front lokka soonish. My CV are clicking like a bomb so thats only a matter of time. Where would you buy CV that are in your opion the best

Josh

Double tuff front axles and CV's should keep you out or trouble as long as you dont go stupid. Depending on the dollar, often ordering from the states is the best option. You will need a rear diff, or at least rear side gears, in the front to fit these axles though. They use the rear spline pattern instead of the front.

Layto....

Gwagensteve wrote:DoubleTough/Spidertrax front axles & CV's

Rear airlocker in the front

Solid spacers instead of the pinion crush sleeves

With the added traction of the 33's, you shoudln't need to hit stuff as hard, so your rear axles should hold up unless you are really getting on it.

Your option then would be to try Calmini CrMo rear axles, I have no experience with these though.

Amongst the bunch of us running big cars in the vic club, were running 35's and over, EFI's and autos/lots of gears/lockers and we've had a couple of rear axles go on us, along with a rear R&P. We've gone to EN-26 axle material, with a full floating conversion based on a Vitara rear diff, cut down, shaved and flipped.

This is an expensive option, but will is the strongest way we can think of building a suzuki based rear diff. This should not be necessary with a 33, but driving style would have alot to do with this.

Basically though, with Doubletoughs and solid spacers in the pinions, I'd say you'll be reliable with 33's.

Steve.

Steve do you have any more information or pictures of these hybrid full floating rear diffs and what hubs /wheel bearing housings are you using.

Cheers
Jamie

hyzook wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote: Your option then would be to try Calmini CrMo rear axles, I have no experience with these though.

I tried a set of these, see below

Long side


Short side

thats awesome

can people please post how and when this happened so we know where to stop. Im pretty careful with my LWB on 33's as i know the axels are weak. Whenever i get into a situation where i am starting to pig root then i back off.

Spike - stay out of heavy throttle if you have lots of gearing and the car as traction.

If if starts to bounce, get off the throttle immediately.

Should be fine.

Jamie, This is a slight hijack, but as it is, in my opinion, the strongest possible suzuki rear diff (and hopefully a nice complement to doubletough front) here goes.

Housing - Vitara rear, flipped upside down (breather and drain relocated)
Short side axle tube cut down. This sets the offset on the diff almost perfect for the rear of a sierra.



I've had 10mm thick plates laser cut with bolt patterns for both the vitara bearing housing pattern and sierra front spindle pattern on them. Bore on the plate is 80mm, the same as a vitara bearing.



The ridge on the vitara bearing housing is ground off, and the 8mm holes in the housing that normally retain the bearing backing plate are drilled out to 10mm.

The adapter plate is then tapped and bolted onto the vitara bearing block, then welded.

A sierra front spindle then bolts on - rebuildable wheel bearings, discs

One hub assembly fits front and rear

Axles are obviously custom.
We're using 1.0 sierra/GV front drive flanges.
I've built three to date, two are still on cars being built, one has done a good hard day of driving with no problems.

#1 wasn't flipped as it's going into a LWB with plenty of rear driveshaft, and we also hadn't thought of the flip at that time.

#2 was flipped and shaved and is service.

#3 was heavily shaved and I built a new cover due to how high up the housing the shave ran.



Steve.

i'm sure there is going to be a very simple answer but why doesn't the car go backwards after the diff has been flipped/....
nervously waiting reply

Gwagensteve wrote:

Steve.

whoa, nice !

seems like way more effort than hilux diffs and possibly weaker ?
I know keeping it suzuki is all well and good, but that looks like a super amount of work.

I'd be very surprised if it's weaker than stock hilux.

It's also lighter than hilux, has more clearance, rear discs, adds parts interchangeability, and eliminates semifloating shafts, which I don't believe have any place in any 4WD.

Also, I don't understand using heavy axle assemblies made from average material designed for load carrying in a light car. I'm much rather use a light diff with strong parts in it in a light car.

Anyway, I enjoy the work.

In any case there's no way to get close to this strength/weight without quite a lot of work however you achieve it.

mr green- axlehousing is flipped, diff stays the right way up.

Steve.

because the Vic guys tend to run SPUA so the added advantage of this is the small diff pumpkin and no lose of ground clearance

Gwagensteve wrote:mr green- axlehousing is flipped, diff stays the right way up.

Steve.

what is the reason for the flip then?
also arn't these the same diameter axle as a rear sierra? so i'm thinking your finding your extra strength in the custom axles?
are these axles cut and resplined vit axles or a new chromo type job.
sorry for the interrogation but i have also put a lot of thought into the diff debate. but what i am toying with now is. standard vit rear, with a widened longside sierra front to match. any thoughts,
sorry for riding the hijack, but i think 31zook already has his answer so we might aswell keep the tech coming

Vitara rears aren't centred - the long side is on the driver's side - back to front to a sierra.

So, to get the best offset without retubing the whole axle, by flipping the housing, the short side becomes the driver's side, and then once that side is cut down to match sierra width, it makes the offset nearly identical to a stock sierra.

Compare the offset on the diff in the jig to the silver one. The black one was cut down only, the silver one was flipped and cut down.

Axles are all custom. EN-26 material - it's a very high grade material. Axles were about $600 a pair, +$220 a pair for press in seal retainers that press into the vitara wheelbearing position and take a sierra front inner axle seal.

Obviously, added costs include a pair of hubs/rotors/ brakes, brake lines, new bumpstops - sierra rears won't fit on the U-bolts anymore as the axle tubes are slightly larger diameter. Stock U-bolts still work.

Axles are the same diameter sierra/vitara, but the material the new axles are made from is much, much stronger - close to 300M, also, they no longer bear the weight of the car, they only turn the wheels.

The vitara has MUCH stronger wheelbearings and a nicer arrangement altogether. If you wanted to do the cutdown/respline, i'd still do the flip and cut down and respline the shortside vitara rear.

Hope this makes sense.

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:Housing - Vitara rear, flipped upside down (breather and drain relocated)
Short side axle tube cut down. This sets the offset on the diff almost perfect for the rear of a sierra.

Steve.

That's some seriously nice work there, love the jig for the housing.

The Chro/Mo axles were in my car for 2yrs, the short side went while trying to climb a fairly large rock ledge and it was a little wet so traction was a problem, I started to use a little momentum to get the rears to bite and famous last words "I'll give it one more go then winch" BANG short side gone.

2 Months later I towed my small camper to the Zukana and did all the events with a enough enthusiasm to take 1st in the hill climb and second overall , I then hooked up camper and drove home and drove around for the next week before a simple u-turn at work snapped the long side

I was running 33's, 3.9 and 5.14 with lockrights, my car is heavy and towing a camper and gear as well as pushing it to the limit most of the time stressed them out.

I ran 33's on stock axles for over 8yrs and only broke a couple of axles so they are pretty good, I only fitted the Chro/Mo ones as the car was hit side on and through insurance the rear diff was checked and a bent axle was reported so I requested new axles be fitted and they said yes!

A cheap fix for the CV's is the birfield rings, 6yrs and only broke one. If you drive appropriately and don't load the car up too much you will be fine.

thanks for the info steve,
ive got to hand it to you for being crafty enough to do this sort of work and also patient and good willed enough to share it with the rest of us.
my current build is high ( spoa, ome ruf, 33s) and long(116.5 inches) on standard wt diffs on 8'' rims. (10.5 tyre). so i am looking to a bit extra width. wich is the reason the vit rear looks attractive. any thoughts on standard vit axles, flipped for the alignment with the extended front longside to match?

steve your setup clearly requires more "speed holes"... i think you should address this and get back to us.

i run 35 s on my lwb with standard axles never had an issue.

ok, so this is a given, 33s will be reliable. Now i was wondering about what sort of tyres to run. In my heart i want swampers, but my pocket says mongrels. Does anyone know of some cheap chunky rubber? haha or where to get swamper?

soo. how much for a set steve??

Not for sale Pyrotech.... not for sale

I don't build this stuff for a living, only fun. You cn tell how much fun I m having by how many speedholes i put in a job.

Steve.

Steve,

Sorry if this is too much of a base question, but, isn't a diff built deeper under so as to carry the oil required, an not have it running into the axle housings an if you flip it, wont that lessen the oil volume, or have it running into the axle housings.

Yep, oil capacity is significantly reduced.

The one I've done with a lighter shave though still took over 1.5 litres of oil, which we reckon will be fine.

It is a good point though, but it's a risk we are willing to take.

Oil dams have been fitted (as per factory) to assist in holding oil in the centre.

Steve.