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jap import motors being inferior
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:09 pm
by Benny Jahmin
is it true that motors built for japan are built (them imported with 100000km or so) with cheaper parts .. ie making them not as strong as an australian built one??
im am looking at a td42 .. then going to turbo it ... would that be advised or not
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:14 pm
by joeblow
pppppfffftttt....old wives tail!.............
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:32 pm
by Gwagensteve
Not as far as I know.
Steve.
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:37 pm
by TheOtherLeft
Considering a Japanese market R-spec car is better then an equivalent U.S. market R-spec car (which we get) I think your info is wrong.
Re: jap import motors being inferior
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:48 pm
by bogged
isnt there 3 TD42 setups in the forsale section here?
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:55 pm
by Gwagensteve
TheOtherLeft wrote:Considering a Japanese market R-spec car is better then an equivalent U.S. market R-spec car (which we get) I think your info is wrong.
That's a bit of a different issue, and is more related to market conditions and perceptions, fuel quality, and use than anything -
IE Honda ( I assume you are citing them) believe that the US market R spec car is a better car for the US market than the japanese spec car.
This is borne out by car makers quite significantly softening the suspension for, say, australia because of our poor roads, where as in Japan or Germany, there's no need for such a soft setup as their roads are better.
That doesn't mean the japanese spec car is better in Australia though.
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:00 pm
by Benny Jahmin
the reason i thort they mite be different is cos japanese can only do so may km on their motor .. there for requiring less quality parts to see them throo 100,000km rather than the 500,000km you should beable to get if looked after
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:17 pm
by Ice
Can you seriously see the japanesse ego letting something like that go to market ?
even if it does end up being an export
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:45 pm
by -Nemesis-
Benny Jahmin wrote:the reason i thort they mite be different is cos japanese can only do so may km on their motor .. there for requiring less quality parts to see them throo 100,000km rather than the 500,000km you should beable to get if looked after
That's also another wives tale. Older cars are taxed off the road over there, among other factors.
The 100,000km thing, is probably just to make people buy them.
My 'Jap spec' 1UZ has been overheated half a dozen times, has been upside down, drunk muddy water and is now getting boost. Still starts first crank and pulls like day one
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:11 pm
by Ice
-Nemesis- wrote:Benny Jahmin wrote:the reason i thort they mite be different is cos japanese can only do so may km on their motor .. there for requiring less quality parts to see them throo 100,000km rather than the 500,000km you should beable to get if looked after
That's also another wives tale. Older cars are taxed off the road over there, among other factors.
The 100,000km thing, is probably just to make people buy them.
My 'Jap spec' 1UZ has been overheated half a dozen times, has been upside down, drunk muddy water and is now getting boost. Still starts first crank and pulls like day one
hehe thats because mr tojo spent bazillionsbogety developing it
and why i have one sitting in the shed too
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:30 pm
by TheOtherLeft
Gwagensteve wrote:TheOtherLeft wrote:Considering a Japanese market R-spec car is better then an equivalent U.S. market R-spec car (which we get) I think your info is wrong.
That's a bit of a different issue, and is more related to market conditions and perceptions, fuel quality, and use than anything -
IE Honda ( I assume you are citing them) believe that the US market R spec car is a better car for the US market than the japanese spec car.
This is borne out by car makers quite significantly softening the suspension for, say, australia because of our poor roads, where as in Japan or Germany, there's no need for such a soft setup as their roads are better.
That doesn't mean the japanese spec car is better in Australia though.
I thought Jap R-spec cars also have a lot more engine/braking mods then the US R-spec cars.
In the Nissan 200SX's the Jap R-spec's have engine mods whereas the US R-spec's only had cosmetic changes.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:31 am
by droopypete
Benny Jahmin wrote:the reason i thort they mite be different is cos japanese can only do so may km on their motor .. there for requiring less quality parts to see them throo 100,000km rather than the 500,000km you should beable to get if looked after
Here is another slant on the whole "Japanese low KM" angle, what is better? an engine that has been driving Melb to Syd return at 110 Kph each week for 6 months amassing 52,000 k's or the same engine siting is stop start traffic for 3 years idling for twice as long as the other engine to get to the same 52,000 km's.
it would be interesting to know how long (time) an Australian engine typically runs to amass 50,00 Km's compared to it's Tokyo counterpart
Peter.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:32 am
by sierrajim
Would also be worth looking at the servicing habits of both countries.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:47 pm
by dar_sbb
TheOtherLeft wrote:
I thought Jap R-spec cars also have a lot more engine/braking mods then the US R-spec cars.
In the Nissan 200SX's the Jap R-spec's have engine mods whereas the US R-spec's only had cosmetic changes.
JDM silvia's comes with ball bearing turbos and are tuned for higher octane fuel.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:48 pm
by roberts
i feel 10% dumber after reading this
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:11 pm
by VKYOOT
u seem 50% dumber for making a comment with f\/ck all relevance...
I cant see an issue with jap import motors, majority of em r compression tested n leakdown tested etc before sale....if its f\/cked i imagine itll become spare parts for another motor
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:57 pm
by mule75
i don't know about jap import cars but o/s import excavators are inferior to the aust delivery ones.
you can normally tell the imported machines.... they are the ones with removed engine covers trying to keep the thing cool
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:22 pm
by badger
-Nemesis- wrote:
Benny Jahmin wrote:
the reason i thort they mite be different is cos japanese can only do so may km on their motor .. there for requiring less quality parts to see them throo 100,000km rather than the 500,000km you should beable to get if looked after
That's also another wives tale. Older cars are taxed off the road over there, among other factors.
The 100,000km thing, is probably just to make people buy them.
My 'Jap spec' 1UZ has been overheated half a dozen times, has been upside down, drunk muddy water and is now getting boost. Still starts first crank and pulls like day one Wink
hehe thats because mr tojo spent bazillionsbogety developing it Smile
and why i have one sitting in the shed too Smile
toyota didnt spend a 2 parts of fork all on developing the 1uz, they bought at and made a few minor changes.
On the point of engine quality. The cost saving to be had by making a motor of inferior quality would be negated by the cost of changing the prduction run to do so. It is very rare for a jap spec motor to have any major differences other than tune and some bolt on ancilerarys. The major difference is generally in the tune and environment/ market its suited to. on the other hand the life of the motor can be very different with alot more time spent at idle, same as a country vs city car here in aus. Even when it comes to servicing there is good and bad owners just like there is here .
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:50 pm
by Gwagensteve
Serious question - whose motor is the 1UZ Badger?
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:19 pm
by bazzle
droopypete wrote:Benny Jahmin wrote:the reason i thort they mite be different is cos japanese can only do so may km on their motor .. there for requiring less quality parts to see them throo 100,000km rather than the 500,000km you should beable to get if looked after
Here is another slant on the whole "Japanese low KM" angle, what is better? an engine that has been driving Melb to Syd return at 110 Kph each week for 6 months amassing 52,000 k's or the same engine siting is stop start traffic for 3 years idling for twice as long as the other engine to get to the same 52,000 km's.
it would be interesting to know how long (time) an Australian engine typically runs to amass 50,00 Km's compared to it's Tokyo counterpart
Peter.
Another OLD wives tale...
Sell me a diesel bus anyday, same conditions for years.........
Bazzle
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:48 pm
by badger
Steve if my memory serves me well it was a prototype motor by bmw (could be another european manufacturer)
There used to be a few threads on www.lextreme..com but i couldnt find them thru a google search and im no longer a member of that forum, I used to be on there and many other 1uz forums with the nic lexus4camv8 but the site doesnt seem to remember me now.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:54 pm
by Gwagensteve
Sounds a bit fishy to me. It might well be true, but it's a pretty well kept secret if it's the case.
BMW obviously did release 3.0 and 4.0 V8's not long after the lexus motor came out I don't think there's much evidence of shared architecture or anything.
Was the assertion that Toyota "stole" the design or bought the design?
Steve.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:17 pm
by ferrit
i know my jap spec 1KZ-TE is in a much higher state of tune than similar non intercooled 1KZ's in aussie hilux's!
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:24 pm
by -Nemesis-
Gwagensteve wrote:Sounds a bit fishy to me. It might well be true, but it's a pretty well kept secret if it's the case.
BMW obviously did release 3.0 and 4.0 V8's not long after the lexus motor came out I don't think there's much evidence of shared architecture or anything.
Was the assertion that Toyota "stole" the design or bought the design?
Steve.
First i've heard of it.
In fact I can vaguely recall reading the article about the 1UZ's development, discussing the phenomenal budget and testing hours
Toyota put into it.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:32 pm
by -Nemesis-
Google does nothing to support that claim. The only Euro reference I can find so far is this old quote:
The 1UZ-FE was used as a template by BMW when they designed the V8 which powers their current-model M5, which indicates what BMW thought of it
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:31 pm
by badger
Sounds a bit fishy to me. It might well be true, but it's a pretty well kept secret if it's the case.
BMW obviously did release 3.0 and 4.0 V8's not long after the lexus motor came out I don't think there's much evidence of shared architecture or anything.
Was the assertion that Toyota "stole" the design or bought the design?
Steve.
It was along the lines of toyota bought the motor, could well have been internet crap, i appologise if i was just spreading more of it. I just figured as it was a very long thread on perhapse the biggest forum devoted to the 1uz and there didnt seem to be much objection it was gospel.
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:37 pm
by Gwagensteve
I'ts worth bearing in mind that, as an example, yamaha do (did?) lots of head development for the large car manufacturers.
The original Corvette ZR-1 motor (DOHC 32valve small block Chev) had ahead designed by yamaha and the engine was assembled by mercury marine.
I've also seen a 18rg (or somehting) old school toyota motor that also had a yamaha head - with "yamaha" proudly cast into it.
I'm not shedding any light per se, only to suggest that the 1UZ might well have ahad other hands in it than just toyota, even though the engine wasn't stolen or bought from anyone else.
Steve.
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:01 pm
by badger
im pretty sure alot of toyotas run yamaha heads
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:15 pm
by Yom
badger wrote:im pretty sure alot of toyotas run yamaha heads
Yeh ask any 4AGE fanboy about it, they seem to love talking about it.
The 4.5L V8TD in the cruisers is meant to be co-developed with Isuzu.
Not uncommon for manufacturers to go to other manufacturers/engineering teams or contractors to design parts of a vehicle or drivetrain which the manufacturer may not be particularly good at doing. Alot of the japanese even buy bits from the competition! I can think of where I've helped pull subarus apart and found all the switchgear, electricals etc are made by Nissan/Calsonic! I think the jap manufacturers may be in bed with each other more than they want to make out (no doubt would be do to government regulation though?)
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:02 pm
by nicbeer
Gwagensteve wrote:I'ts worth bearing in mind that, as an example, yamaha do (did?) lots of head development for the large car manufacturers.
The original Corvette ZR-1 motor (DOHC 32valve small block Chev) had ahead designed by yamaha and the engine was assembled by mercury marine.
I've also seen a 18rg (or somehting) old school toyota motor that also had a yamaha head - with "yamaha" proudly cast into it.
I'm not shedding any light per se, only to suggest that the 1UZ might well have ahad other hands in it than just toyota, even though the engine wasn't stolen or bought from anyone else.
Steve.
18rgeu i think it was. EFI twin cam and etc