Outer Limits 4x4 Board

ok guys i thought id get some help from the professionals haha

im in the process of buying a niassan navara, however im torn between the D22 and the D40 and i would like your advise/opinions

i will be doing a fair bit of 4wd'ing on the weekends (mostly beach i guess) for surfing trips etc, now i have done a little bit of research and i believe the better option first of all is to go with the turbo diesel rather then the petrol????

i like the d22 because it is that fair bit cheaper but i like the d40 because it is a bit bigger and i guess in the end is the newer model.

what would be the better option for myself???? and getting lift kits etc put on the car is it better to go through the dealer (ie nissan) or to get it done privately.

please discuss and give me pros/cons etc .... thanks

D40 diesel autos are thirsty but they are bogger and have cool tie downs in the tray for your surfboard.

D22 diesel is thirsty when your car has a fuel card and your dont pay for it but is economical if your picking up the tab.

My D22 is a cheap finish in my opinion, the interior light only comes on with the drivers door. It tows really well even with a heavy load (about 2T) there are more aftermarket wheels available for D22 but i heard the D40 may be going back to the same stud patten.

the d40's suspension is softer than the d22. But that said i tow everyday and with 15 to 1800kgs behind i get anywhere between 13 and 15 litres per hundred. also i have blowne a rear diff and now have the shakes

Brad

D40 is more upmarket. it also has poor turning circle and is a bit bigger than most utes. its really a tarseal 4x4.
D22 is more basic, tradesman type vechile. at least it has manual hubs and stick 4x4 selector. no crap 4x4 electronics to go wrong which is a problem the D40 has.
D40 has problems with clutchs and wearing out front brakes.

down side is current D22 is a detuned version of the D40 motor and is known for crap rear springs (not that they will be there long as you will want to lift it).

Ive have owned a D22 and now own a D40.

If you are going to do any 4WDing the D40 id definately the way to go,
it has alot better gearing. turbo lag is a slight issue but not when 4WDing.
the rear springs in the D40 are a bit firm, a little jumpy when going around corners with bumps (without a load)
but the D22 front torsion bars are so SHIT.

In my opinion the D40 is the best 4WD ute i have owned.

it must have been ok to win 4WD ute of the year 3 times

but the D22 front torsion bars are so SHIT

thats the fist bad comment on the front torsions i've heard.
whats so bad about them?

with any decent 4x4 use your going to change the springs anyway.

it must have been ok to win 4WD ute of the year 3 times

i woudn't trust media awards one bit. it all depends on who pays the bills they kinda don't mention abou the crap turning circle or how it rates or factor in reliability. typical mags always leave out important details like that.

i would go more on what faults they have and can you live with them.
for me poor turning circle is a biggy, so is chewing out brake rotors every 40,000km. even the slightly bigger size is an issue (regualry push through trees etc).
the D22's lack of power and weaker driveline is something i can live with.
but if your after something that tows well, cruises down the highway well, got an easy to use 4x4 so you can get down the beach, launch the boot etc then it could well suit you.

has anyone towed a large weight with a D40 diesel auto?

how did the auto hold up?

tweak'e wrote:

but the D22 front torsion bars are so SHIT

thats the fist bad comment on the front torsions i've heard.
whats so bad about them?

with any decent 4x4 use your going to change the springs anyway.

it must have been ok to win 4WD ute of the year 3 times

i woudn't trust media awards one bit. it all depends on who pays the bills they kinda don't mention abou the crap turning circle or how it rates or factor in reliability. typical mags always leave out important details like that.

i would go more on what faults they have and can you live with them.
for me poor turning circle is a biggy, so is chewing out brake rotors every 40,000km. even the slightly bigger size is an issue (regualry push through trees etc).
the D22's lack of power and weaker driveline is something i can live with.
but if your after something that tows well, cruises down the highway well, got an easy to use 4x4 so you can get down the beach, launch the boot etc then it could well suit you.

with any 4WDing yes you are going to change the springs, (torsion bars in the d22's case) but you are limited in many ways with the torsion bars, if you wish to lift the front it is as easy as tensioning the adjusters, but if you wish to do it properly to get the best effect you need to replace the lower arm on the d22. as this is the only way to maintain both adequate up travel and down travel.

the turning circle in the D40 is bad, but it is similar to most other dual cabs on the market at the moment.

how are the media suppose to factor in reliability? if the car does not present any faults during the test period then they cannot for the purposes of their testing use what could or could not be rumours/heresay.

during testing a land rover disco had its electronics fail during a river crossing, this happened during the course of their testing and was reported in detail as an issue that happened with all of the facts.

also the D22 front diff on the diesel is smaller than its previosly available petrol counterpart, there were stories of it failing but under what condition it was being driven at the time i am not aware?

it is the first i have heard of the D40 chewing out front rotors, i have a manual and have 42000 on the clock and my rotors are still as new,
obviously an auto would be quite different, and so would carrying/towing a load constantly.

there are a lot of things that change just from driving style that could influence the purchase of the D22 or D40, fuel economy being the bigggest and most debated. but if this is a purchasing factor ask how they drive? what terrain they drive? and how much load they constantly carry?

You can't ignore the D40's long wheel base, low mounted driveline and lack of protection.

The slightest knock underneath will halt you in your tracks in a D40.

You don't have those issues with a D22.

Stock for stock, the D22 is a far better offroad proposition than the D40.

But thats like saying an Xtrail is a better proposition than a Rav4...They're both, well, you know.

AZZA FJ40 wrote:
with any 4WDing yes you are going to change the springs, (torsion bars in the d22's case) but you are limited in many ways with the torsion bars, if you wish to lift the front it is as easy as tensioning the adjusters, but if you wish to do it properly to get the best effect you need to replace the lower arm on the d22. as this is the only way to maintain both adequate up travel and down travel.

D22 will do up to 3" front lift without changing torsein bars or changing lower arm, tho 2" is more common.
D40 you still have to adjust or change bottom for big lifts as well. both are similar for big lifts, the both need a lot of parts.
however D22 is cheaper to do a small lift.

the turning circle in the D40 is bad, but it is similar to most other dual cabs on the market at the moment.

i'm fairly certian that D40 is the worse of all current dual cabs at the moment. i think nissan even leave the spec out of their advertising !

also the D22 front diff on the diesel is smaller than its previosly available petrol counterpart, there were stories of it failing but under what condition it was being driven at the time i am not aware?

yeah D22 front diff is a bit of a weak point especially for those who have lead feet.

it is the first i have heard of the D40 chewing out front rotors, i have a manual and have 42000 on the clock and my rotors are still as new,
obviously an auto would be quite different, and so would carrying/towing a load constantly.

from what i hear its not all that load dependant. i would be cheaking how much is left on the pads. do you get much brake dust on the rims?

having said that i'm told its geting more common across a lot of vechiles these days. they seam to have hard pads, soft rotors and change the whole lot in one hit instead of machine disks and changing pads.

but at the end of the day its all about getting a vechile that suits and has faults that you can live with.

bogged wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5l_VZFdLB0

isn't that the tosser who bellied it out and smashed the radiator then drove it with basically no coolant, cooked it and then complained when Nissan didn't want to repair it under warranty ??
bloody townies !

i didnt break a front diff, and that was with 35's and reduction gears.
Transfer chains on the other hand.....stretched two of them.
The bigger petrol diff is a bolt in swap. and then you can get an air locker

that reminds me that

yes


i did plan on getting underbody protection.

D22 all the way, de tuned YD25 , unreal.. bit less power than the D40 but alot more reliable... No fuel rail pressure sensor problems no shitty electrical faults related to the VSK vin number... no worn out unis requiring a new 2000 dollar tailshaft... no shitty lower slung than a lowered VL commodore radiator that gets wiped out on every shitty sand dune you hit , no dual mass flywheel and silly torx bits holding your flywheel in , at the end of the day the D22 is a tried and tested chassis that is soldiering on like the TD42 engine was in a patrol till emissions killed it , why would you go for something some spain fellow built (or thialnd dude in the case of the king cab) over something thats jap and proven..... also , D40 brakes at the pointy end... 40,000 kms of regular driving goodbuy... D22 , 120,000 isnt unheard of.... and isnt the D22 cheaper???? hmmmmmmm... so what the light does not come on inside with the other doors , you can change that for about 30 bucks worth of door switches and some wiring....? silly little things.. shall i go on anyone?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i have a d22 str, full black, black windows, body lift, 2' suspension lift, 33 muds, the last v6 manual to be brought in the country, v6 petty, computer reburn, exhaust,upgraded injectors, big steza, polished alloy wheels,bar,side steps, its an 05 model with only 13000km it is like brand new. i never drive it maybe once a year....... i would consider selling it if some one would like it...

very tuff looking ute(dual cab)................ pm me or call 0438279890

IN24BZ wrote:D22 all the way, de tuned YD25 , unreal.. bit less power than the D40 but alot more reliable... No fuel rail pressure sensor problems no shitty electrical faults related to the VSK vin number... no worn out unis requiring a new 2000 dollar tailshaft... no shitty lower slung than a lowered VL commodore radiator that gets wiped out on every shitty sand dune you hit , no dual mass flywheel and silly torx bits holding your flywheel in ,

latest D22 is common rail so it has all the same dodgy sensors and electronics as the D40. they also have had dual mass flywheels for a long time now. you have to go back the the early D22 (pre facelift) or D21 to get no dual mass flywheels.

interesting i just seen this last week that the D22 has an upgraded front prop shaft advailable. i think thats due to these silly overseas ones that have fixed front hubs and they wear the crap out of the front drive line.
even on the D40 i would go fit front hubs.

We do alot of these navaras , had 3 do rear diffs (whining like hell 80k up ) Just tradies utes not even been in 4wd . Had a D40 in the other day genuine Nissan tow bar broke the bottom of the chassis rail out , shity design only bolts to the bottom of the 2mm thick rail. Had a discussion with nissan as to the ball load , caravan was weighed 190kg ball load Nissan rated it to 300 kg . Bottom line Nissan paid to repair chassis and modify bar . Heard of another that cracked behind the cab till the tray touched the cab , Nissan paid out to fix. Also have injector problems (excessive fuel usage) .
If my vote counts buy the D22 beter truck less probs , more after market stuff avail.
But in saying so it shows Nissan backs up there faults with the warranty

"latest D22 is common rail so it has all the same dodgy sensors and electronics as the D40. they also have had dual mass flywheels for a long time now. you have to go back the the early D22 (pre facelift) or D21 to get no dual mass flywheels. "

Yes i agree the latest D22 is commonrail Yd25 , It makes less power than in the D40 and has a smaller turbo and top mount ic , just qurious as to why we do fuel rail after fuel rail due to the D40 P1272 FRP relif valve code when the D22 with the "same dodgy sensors" hasnt created any issues. as for the dual mass flywheels what facelift are we talking about , early 3.2 diesel had a solid flywheel , The Zd blowup machinre also had a solid flywheel and the YD25 D22 we have in australia also has a solid flywheel... as for the free wheeling hub issue the latest run of D22s do not have a locking hub mechanism (sigh cost cutting taking its toll) , on top of that the D22 has a better protected radiator and a better gearbox and 4x4 arrangment (pre delete locking hubs) and better brakes at a cheaper price too the choice should be clear. , If its not jap its crap... =)

guys in your honest opinion how much would it cost for a 2" lift kit fiyyed to a d22 nissan navara?? and would it be wise to get better tires or are the standard ggod enough

also were is it best to have it done??

IN24BZ wrote:"latest D22 is common rail so it has all the same dodgy sensors and electronics as the D40. they also have had dual mass flywheels for a long time now. you have to go back the the early D22 (pre facelift) or D21 to get no dual mass flywheels. "

Yes i agree the latest D22 is commonrail Yd25 , It makes less power than in the D40 and has a smaller turbo and top mount ic , just qurious as to why we do fuel rail after fuel rail due to the D40 P1272 FRP relif valve code when the D22 with the "same dodgy sensors" hasnt created any issues. as for the dual mass flywheels what facelift are we talking about , early 3.2 diesel had a solid flywheel , The Zd blowup machinre also had a solid flywheel and the YD25 D22 we have in australia also has a solid flywheel... as for the free wheeling hub issue the latest run of D22s do not have a locking hub mechanism (sigh cost cutting taking its toll) , on top of that the D22 has a better protected radiator and a better gearbox and 4x4 arrangment (pre delete locking hubs) and better brakes at a cheaper price too the choice should be clear. , If its not jap its crap... =)

...But the D22 has been made in Thailand since it was re-released as a 2.5TD ?

IN24BZ wrote: Yes i agree the latest D22 is commonrail Yd25 , It makes less power than in the D40 and has a smaller turbo and top mount ic , just qurious as to why we do fuel rail after fuel rail due to the D40 P1272 FRP relif valve code when the D22 with the "same dodgy sensors" hasnt created any issues. as for the dual mass flywheels what facelift are we talking about , early 3.2 diesel had a solid flywheel , The Zd blowup machinre also had a solid flywheel and the YD25 D22 we have in australia also has a solid flywheel... as for the free wheeling hub issue the latest run of D22s do not have a locking hub mechanism (sigh cost cutting taking its toll) , on top of that the D22 has a better protected radiator and a better gearbox and 4x4 arrangment (pre delete locking hubs) and better brakes at a cheaper price too the choice should be clear. , If its not jap its crap... =)

you need to remember that YD25 version of D22 has only been out for a year compared to 4-5 (?) years for the D40.
frankly biggest killer of the fuel systems seams to be fuel. however D40 fuel pressure sensor certain seams to fail more than others. ditto boost control valve.

i'll have to double check but ZD30 and early YD25 both have dual mass flywheels. (i didn't think AU even got YD25 untill common rail version came out)

UK seams to have no locking hubs on theres for a fair number of years. i will have to ask what years. i hope its not because production has shifted factory.

thankfully D22 has better lasting brakes.

...But the D22 has been made in Thailand since it was re-released as a 2.5TD ?

i don't know. they may have changed things when the D22 was out of production.

guys in your honest opinion how much would it cost for a 2" lift kit fiyyed to a d22 nissan navara?? and would it be wise to get better tires or are the standard ggod enough

rear springs are fairly useless in the D22 and require an extra leaf fitted or just change the whole spring pack. bonus of that is 2" lift at the same time. front's simply pull the torsen out, turn it 6 notchs (i think), fit it back in and then adjust to suit.
shocks, i'm cheap i just wait till the factory ones stuff out.

tires, no idea what you get as factory but i'll bet they will be tarseal tires. upgrade to something to suit your useage.

Yeah that is correct we only have the Commonrail version and our zds as far as im aware in the navara application only have a solid flywheel , in the poo trol they are fitted with a DM , i think i can see whats happening here we are in the toilet market... as specs change for europe etc... as im pretty sure were in the GOM here in aus... so if your in another part of the world yours are going to have changes a such. hence the non commonrail YD engine you speak of. no such thing here in aus.

Also , the the yd D22 has a JN1 vin meaning jap , the D40 king cab and single cab is made in thailand i cant remember the vin i think its vln or somethng like that if you look at a spain d40 and thai d 40 inside and under bonnet suttle changes are noticeable

NZ got the non-common rail version YD25 in 2WD. ZD30 in the 4x4.

fairly certain the navara ZD30 is dual mass. i havn't pulled it apart to find out but in driving it certainly feels like one. i would gladly rip it out and fit a solid.
if i was a solid then the patrol guys would be buying them up to fit the patrol but thats not the case.

in my opinion, i would not bother paying the extra money for the D40. It seems like its a bit of a waste as the features do not add up enough for the increased price.

ahh nz , yes australia only got the commonsnail yd , and all our zds navaras are solid and the patrol ones are dual mass , if you put the solid flywheel on a patrol i think it bolts up but the whole thickness of the flywheel thing become an issue as one is way thicker than the other , it works in theory but since they have a different box it does not quite work if you get me.... i hope that when you do have to pull it apart you find a solid one too its much easier come the time of repair (im a nissan tech btw =) i didnt take into account the different models in different markets etc and i appologise if i came off sounding arogant )

well if the ZD30 is solid flywheel then its a bit of an odd one. i think it rould be rare to find solid flywheels on a small diesel these days. also it means that the ZD30 clutch is crappy. on both navaras we have it varies in slip, take up point varies and is generally a pig to use. i much prefer my old toyota clutch, its nice and consistant.

yes they do feel quite unusual however in saying that they are solid here they might not be there? as we only just got a 2.5 2wd D22 only avalible in CR. imo they should release a standard set of cars world wide because some places loose out and some gain in what they can get

i'm picking up a new D22 tomorrow morning, and after what i've read i think i've made the right decision. brand new, 2009 series 4 with tubliner, tonneau, roof racks, alloy bullbar, towbar, mats and 2x child restraints 38K drive away
nothing comes close for value.

tweak'e wrote:well if the ZD30 is solid flywheel then its a bit of an odd one. i think it rould be rare to find solid flywheels on a small diesel these days. also it means that the ZD30 clutch is crappy. on both navaras we have it varies in slip, take up point varies and is generally a pig to use. i much prefer my old toyota clutch, its nice and consistant.

I met a guy 'who's clutch is slipping in a 7000 klm old car
Towed nothing bigger than a small tinnie
To say he is not very happy is an understatement
cheers