Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I heard a rumour that the insurance companies and therefore states were getting the irritations with 4wd winches and fires.

The story I was told (unsubstantiated) was that small front end prangs are causing the winch wires to get cut / shorted to the chassis. This dumps several hundred amps into the wires until the battery fails / bursts / burns, or something catches alight. The high rate of discharge also generates hydrogen in the battery, causing further risk.
All wires are supposed to be fused for safety, but most winch cables are not.
The discussion went around mandatory fuseable links.

Anyone heard anything?

Anyone have a good, cost effective, minimal voltage loss, reliable solution?

I was running an isolator switch, but it was unrelaible, and on the bullbar. It would need to be closer to the battery.

Thanx
Paul

I have an isolator switch in the cabin, although I haven't crashed the car but seems to work fine

use a titan style solenoid wired so there is no positive near the winch unless its winching. Reduces corrosion too - thanks to MMM for the info!

It involves increasing the length of 3 wires apart from the normal 2 but for the sake of a kg or 2.

just another reason to run hydro

Serg

bru21 wrote:use a titan style solenoid wired so there is no positive near the winch unless its winching. Reduces corrosion too - thanks to MMM for the info!

It involves increasing the length of 3 wires apart from the normal 2 but for the sake of a kg or 2.

Where is the solenoid?
Beside the battery, or out near the bar?

Thanx
Paul

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:The story I was told (unsubstantiated) was that small front end prangs are causing the winch wires to get cut / shorted to the chassis.
Anyone heard anything?

yea about 6yrs ago someone came up with this one on April 1st if I remember.....caused a massive stir at the time..

?

250amp maybe not quite enough.....if you have a look at the specs on some winches they pull up to 400amps under load...

I havn't heard/seen anything specificly about winches, but when I used to fit dual batteries, I heard alot of stories and saw a few pics of burnt out 4wd's caused by people running the charge cable across the front of the car instead of the firewall, the the cable being crimped or cut in an accident.

dank wrote:250amp maybe not quite enough.....if you have a look at the specs on some winches they pull up to 400amps under load...

I believe such fuses are available. Problem is that blowing such a fuse is fairly costly in itself.

Jaffa wrote:I havn't heard/seen anything specificly about winches, but when I used to fit dual batteries, I heard alot of stories and saw a few pics of burnt out 4wd's caused by people running the charge cable across the front of the car instead of the firewall, the the cable being crimped or cut in an accident.

A similar comment was made by the gents at Pirahna, they even supplied me a few m of cable out of their scrap bin to re-route up along the firewall.

On a mates winch we fitted a big keyed isol (same as the isol switches fitted to comp/rally cars etc) switch between the battery and the main feed for the solenoid.

Those rally car style isolators are rarely up to the task of winching. They typically only allow 100A maximum.

We sourced one for a project at work that is a truck/military isolator - all steel - and from memory, rated at 1500A momentary and >400A continuous

I don't think a fusible link is the answer. A 400A fusible link would still pass enough current to start a toasty little fire if it was passed into thin sheetmetal.

Steve.

The 2009 Model Tigerz 11 winch has an isolation switch in the line from the battery to the winch.

I would imagine it is not difficult to do the same thing for other types of winches, sounds like a storm in a tea cup to me.

http://thiswotidonow.com/

I've got an ironman winch that came with an isolator switch for under the bonnet near the battery. So basically you only have power going to the control box on the bullbar when you are using the winch. I did upgrade to a stronger Narva style isolator, its two way so I can select which battery I want to winch off or from both. Of course its ideal to winch off the starting battery, but if you stall and need to winch the car out before starting it (say in water for example) you can use the aux battery to winch and still have starting power in the main battery.

Just my 5 cents worth....

I was thinking of putting a short piece of 8g wire in series with the 4g? winch cable.

This would act as a fuseable link, failing before anything else.

It's the same thing some cars use.

It would be preferable however to find some material that was non-flammable, and a safe(ish) place to put it.

8g is only a guess - might need bigger or smaller. I would need to do the calcs.

Anyone put a clamp meter on their winch under load?
If yes - what load / duration / motor type?

Thanx
Paul

I have my whole wiring system in my patrol running threw one of these fuses. It's a 400 amp fuse which are used in fork lifts. This is the fuse holder which the fuse sits in.

From memory the whole set up cost me about $60 with a spare fuse.



Cheers Mick.

bru21 wrote:use a titan style solenoid wired so there is no positive near the winch unless its winching. Reduces corrosion too - thanks to MMM for the info!

It involves increasing the length of 3 wires apart from the normal 2 but for the sake of a kg or 2.

As bru21 said, if your that worried about killing the box in an accident, be it tree or road ,mount it under the bonnet and extend the field and armature cables.

job done, and you now have it out of the weather.

As for a fusable link, for piece of mind why not. However, i would suggest that you make sure there is enough cable there to join together bypassing the fuse holder in case you blow it during an unavoidable long "hot" winch.

smitty

I wouldn't use a fuse - defeats the purpose of using 120mm2 wire

At obc 06 ian's winch jammed on when they crashed down a 7m bank into a ravine - blowing a tyre! The solenoids latched due to impact. They were col herse 200A at the time.

Titan fail open, and I have never heard of one latching on with impact.

As for position - I mounted the front in the engine bay where the battery normally goes. The rear winch I mounted In a hidden spot under the tray near the winch.

Edit:
Also a battery blowing up isn't too bad - apart from the risk of fire. Old man blew one up next to me in the shed welding its loud as hell and sprays acid everwhere but IMHO there are greater concerns in an accident.

I'm sure you could get circut breakers, i'm running a couple of 40amp breakers in the jeep for accessories.

I just use a 500A welding extension lead connector near the battery. Cost: $35.
Just connect it when needed.
Mounted the solenoid pack just in front of the aux battery too.

sudso wrote:I just use a 500A welding extension lead connector near the battery. Cost: $35.
Just connect it when needed.
Mounted the solenoid pack just in front of the aux battery too.

yer you an buy welding conectors to extend your welding cables. this may be a probelm for some people who are lazy and dont want to conect them up.

i run a 300amp fuse at the battery and carry the spare around. i have used the winch twise and no dramas so far

just run it un fused, if it arcs with the body good luck blowing the fuse, it will pass 300A easy and melt the metal

cooki_monsta wrote:just run it un fused, if it arcs with the body good luck blowing the fuse, it will pass 300A easy and melt the metal

yer your probably right. o well