Outer Limits 4x4 Board

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewt7f-h8Wn4


warning: material contains images of Simon Christie.

no surprise.

Haven't watched it, but I assume it's completely and utterly non-biased.

Ben wrote:Haven't watched it, but I assume it's completely and utterly non-biased.

This is actually pretty fair (bench test + visual quality comparison). Who knows how many different types of chinese lockers there are out there though - this could have been a particularly bad version?

I would love to see a similar comparison between the big name brands.

Ben wrote:Haven't watched it, but I assume it's completely and utterly non-biased.

6929 ft/lb (ARB) vs 6412ft/lb (chinese)

That aint actually too bad for a copy.

argue the failure mode - I've seen enough air leakers not operate when needed.

Paul

Yep within the first ten seconds you can tell it will be entirely evedentiary based research because it has ARB plastered all over it, no bias whatsoever.

Next they will compare an ARB sold tirfor against an Aldi recovery winch, looking forward to that too

Struth wrote:Yep within the first ten seconds you can tell it will be entirely evedentiary based research because it has ARB plastered all over it, no bias whatsoever.

Next they will compare an ARB sold tirfor against an Aldi recovery winch, looking forward to that too

Sure, they rigged the bench test. No doubt. And they made inferior quality gears/casings as mock ups for the visual comparisons. To be fair - post up a video of the chinese company's testing.

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:6929 ft/lb (ARB) vs 6412ft/lb (chinese)

That aint actually too bad for a copy.

The ARB locker didn't break at 6929, the axle failed. Before the axle used with the chinese locker had a chance to fail the locker did - catastrophically.



Would like to see a test with an upgrade axle too

dogbreath_48 wrote:

Struth wrote:Yep within the first ten seconds you can tell it will be entirely evedentiary based research because it has ARB plastered all over it, no bias whatsoever.

Next they will compare an ARB sold tirfor against an Aldi recovery winch, looking forward to that too

Sure, they rigged the bench test. No doubt. And they made inferior quality gears/casings as mock ups for the visual comparisons. To be fair - post up a video of the chinese company's testing.

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:6929 ft/lb (ARB) vs 6412ft/lb (chinese)

That aint actually too bad for a copy.

The ARB locker didn't break at 6929, the axle failed. Before the axle used with the chinese locker had a chance to fail the locker did - catastrophically.



Would like to see a test with an upgrade axle too

that's right the locker held the axle broke, shame ARB stuff is such a rip off even at trade, they wouldn't have to bag out the competition if it was priced more competitively.

dogbreath_48 wrote:

Struth wrote:Yep within the first ten seconds you can tell it will be entirely evedentiary based research because it has ARB plastered all over it, no bias whatsoever.

Next they will compare an ARB sold tirfor against an Aldi recovery winch, looking forward to that too

Sure, they rigged the bench test. No doubt. And they made inferior quality gears/casings as mock ups for the visual comparisons. To be fair - post up a video of the chinese company's testing.

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:6929 ft/lb (ARB) vs 6412ft/lb (chinese)

That aint actually too bad for a copy.

The ARB locker didn't break at 6929, the axle failed. Before the axle used with the chinese locker had a chance to fail the locker did - catastrophically.



Would like to see a test with an upgrade axle too

What I am cynically implying is that I doubt they would have chosen the best of the Chinese knock offs for this comparison, it may come a little too close to the strength of theres at half the price.

They need to get over their simple minded attitude that promoting Chinese equals poor quality will work.

The Chinese already know that meeting the rest of the worlds quality while beating the pricing is the way forward.

It's typical xenaphobia on their behalf and a cheap shot.

Struth wrote:

dogbreath_48 wrote:

Struth wrote:Yep within the first ten seconds you can tell it will be entirely evedentiary based research because it has ARB plastered all over it, no bias whatsoever.

Next they will compare an ARB sold tirfor against an Aldi recovery winch, looking forward to that too

Sure, they rigged the bench test. No doubt. And they made inferior quality gears/casings as mock ups for the visual comparisons. To be fair - post up a video of the chinese company's testing.

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:6929 ft/lb (ARB) vs 6412ft/lb (chinese)

That aint actually too bad for a copy.

The ARB locker didn't break at 6929, the axle failed. Before the axle used with the chinese locker had a chance to fail the locker did - catastrophically.



Would like to see a test with an upgrade axle too

What I am cynically implying is that I doubt they would have chosen the best of the Chinese knock offs for this comparison, it may come a little too close to the strength of theres at half the price.

They need to get over their simple minded attitude that promoting Chinese equals poor quality will work.

The Chinese already know that meeting the rest of the worlds quality while beating the pricing is the way forward.

It's typical xenaphobia on their behalf and a cheap shot.

Typical internet-forum cynicism!

I don't see any problem - if you had a product that you knew was better than the competition (in this case a no-name chinese rip off of their own product), why not prove it? Would it be better to see claims that ARB's product was better but without any proof or explanation as such?

-Stu

Did anyone else notice the error messages in the video?

dogbreath_48 wrote:
Typical internet-forum cynicism!

-Stu

I resemble that remark

the size of the sample indicates the confidence interval for any test - for the results to be valid, you would have to test a number (say between five and 100) of each locker to destruction and overlay the distributions of failure torques to get a picture of which locker is truly "better". and failure torque is just one indicator - which one is less likely to leak air? which has the cheaper and more available parts? which has the best warranty? there are a lot of variables to consider.

the test in the ARB video is non realistic in any case; in a real vehicle big torque is never applied to an axle in that slowly increased mode - it's more likely to be a shock applied torque from say falling off a rock ledge or stomping the go in low range - which in a turbo diesel or V8 application could easily DOUBLE the failure torque for either diff as demonstrated.

busting stuff is cool

that crappy chinese side gear doesnt look all that different to most factory cast side gears.
just buy arb side gears, probably drop straight in and problem sloved.

and no im not an arb airlocker hater I just bought two.I do however think they are over priced somewhat.

Im also wondering how easily 4wd tv was bought off because them doing this video sucks arse they lost and cred with me.

going by that vid i would rather a chinese copy ,

how would you get the axel out of a diff when installed properly , it was jammed in there , i spose you could just keep driving till it broke right off

The actual ARB lockers are quite cheap. If you're able to purchase a set of lockers without the ARB sticker that comes with them it halves the cost

ps, i have ARB air lockers woot

are you serious? putting airlockers in gets rid of the weak sidegears found in toyota 8" diffs especially. its just weak shit your putting back in your diff, i know what i'd rather replace.....an axle or a full locker and a diff rebuild?

Except even with a jammed axle, its still supported, the bearings are still turning, you can still drive.

the chances of you moving more than a meter with the sharpnel grenade effect in the middle of your diff that the chinese locker left you with arent good- that would bind up something shocking.

As for what i would buy?

Considering:

ARB locker. Reuse your exsting RG&P, locker is about $1500 installed.

If something breaks, its a $100 axle shaft from a wreckers, or $600 for Chromo ones.

Chinese locker- $Reuse gears, $600 or so for locker, another $150 or so installed.

If something breaks, its $600 for a new chinese locker, $400 for a new set of gears, $300 for bearings, $200 of labour!

False economy buying the cheap locker really. (prices are based on what i just paid to get a rear diff rebuilt with new gears and bearings)

big bundy wrote:are you serious? putting airlockers in gets rid of the weak sidegears found in toyota 8" diffs especially. its just weak shit your putting back in your diff, i know what i'd rather replace.....an axle or a full locker and a diff rebuild?

but if the axel broke like in that vid with the arb locker , how would you get it out ? , keep driving and you could also wreck the locker

that said the cvs would most likley break first and it wouldnt be a problem

I'd give one of those cheap bangers a go.

Were the two axles they used both brand new, or used items??

I spent a full weekend driving the vic high coutry in my old Sierra with a diff full of shrapnel, and it did nothing. Just made some nasty sounds.

The people who say "ya finished if the locker goes like that", have never owned a Rangie .

I'd put a cheapy locker in the rear, if it was around the $400 mark

dumbdunce wrote:the size of the sample indicates the confidence interval for any test - for the results to be valid, you would have to test a number (say between five and 100) of each locker to destruction and overlay the distributions of failure torques to get a picture of which locker is truly "better". and failure torque is just one indicator - which one is less likely to leak air? which has the cheaper and more available parts? which has the best warranty? there are a lot of variables to consider.

the test in the ARB video is non realistic in any case; in a real vehicle big torque is never applied to an axle in that slowly increased mode - it's more likely to be a shock applied torque from say falling off a rock ledge or stomping the go in low range - which in a turbo diesel or V8 application could easily DOUBLE the failure torque for either diff as demonstrated.

busting stuff is cool :D

I thought shock load was generally a lower failure point than the steady state load? Something to do with crack propogation and stress distribution.
Course it's all different depending on elastic materials I guess.
90% of the strength at 40% of the price ain't too bad.
If it was a Toyota front, it would be intersting to know if the ring gear / pinion would have failed first.

Paul

far out

going by that video, i reakon i would be more than happy with a chinese locker for half the price of an arb.

most trucks will not give anywhere near as much punishment to the diffs ( enough to snap an axle or shear a gear at those pressures).

Imagine a 3b diesel in a 42? or a 2.8 patrol, they would have to swallow a truckload of nitroglyicerine to have enough power, or even come close to haveing that much torque on ONE axle..

Jes

jessie928 wrote:far out

going by that video, i reakon i would be more than happy with a chinese locker for half the price of an arb.

most trucks will not give anywhere near as much punishment to the diffs ( enough to snap an axle or shear a gear at those pressures).

Imagine a 3b diesel in a 42? or a 2.8 patrol, they would have to swallow a truckload of nitroglyicerine to have enough power, or even come close to haveing that much torque on ONE axle..

Jes

That's what I'm thinking.

Both lockers took more than was necessary to permanently twist the axle used.
I'd like to see a test with stronger axles to show the failure point of the arb. Because for all we know it could be 1% more load than the axle snapped at, which would make the arb 8% stronger than the chinese copy.
A bigger sample would be good to.

Still, unless the chinese bring out a landrover compatible one it won't change my buying options.

this is probably a dumb question but where do you buy a chinese locker here in aus? ive never seen one but ive never looked

jasonw wrote:this is probably a dumb question but where do you buy a chinese locker here in aus? ive never seen one but ive never looked

ebay?

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote: 90% of the strength at 40% of the price ain't too bad.

again its worth pointing out that the arb locker is still intact, the axel broke. whilst the chinese locker shattered.

so the weakest point was only slightly higher than the locker, but was a cheap and easier part to replace.

I for one would not spend say $800 installed on a chinese locker to lower the weakest point in my drive train.

But I would like to see the arb one against a chromo and see how far it could go.

I saw another related link showing an open diff compared to the locked vehicle. - they pointed out they were the same car, engine and tyres. but they drove the open diff vehicle on a line where it lifted wheels in the air, but then drove the locked vehicle - either on a differant line or they had better suspension flex as it stayed in contact with the ground so it was pretty pointless comparison - good one arb.

that said i now own a set of arb lockers and as such will now always say - arb lockers are the best! (until the o ring fails)

Id be keen to see what the actual price of these copies are.

I dont have any lockers at the moment but it would depend on price as to which way I went.

Dazza

thehanko wrote:

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote: 90% of the strength at 40% of the price ain't too bad.

I for one would not spend say $800 installed on a chinese locker to lower the weakest point in my drive train.

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Hmm I've got a cruiser CW&P - the axle and locker aren't the weakest point in mine. Only has to be stronger than that :)