Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Just curious how much lift under a winch challenge rig, looks about 3".
Yes, checked the "SEARCH" function (we don't agree on much!)

By the looks they run A frame or triangulated rears, what about front suspension, they seem to flex pretty well....."Superior flex arms" or 4/5 link fronts?

Cheers Dano.

generally 3-4" lift, Superior superflex front arms and long arm rears. there is no advantage in running an A frame, as it does increase the roll axis height and for high speed stuff you really want the roll axis low on the rear and even lower on the front (sadly very hard to do on a GQ/GU). This sort of setup has been on the podium in every Xtreme winch event since they were designed! so they must work..... Rob Marshals and Christians Trusz's trucks are great examples (and there are plenty others), they just put the power to the ground so damn well. They handle and flex and are very predictable to drive which is a key factor in being successful.

Thanks for the reply Madengineer, very insightful, does that mean that they are running triangulated rears?

Cheers, Dano.

dano80 wrote:Thanks for the reply Madengineer, very insightful, does that mean that they are running triangulated rears?

Cheers, Dano.

no stock style adjustable uppers. Nissan trailing arm bushs are amazing, they flex well and last for ages. The top are ams certainly not the limiting point in rear end flex, its more to do with the short-arse lower links. extending the lower links is a big plus in geometry, and it allow less diff-steer and helps with antisquat. EG a 5-6" lifted GQ/GU the bottom arms angle up, quite a lot, so when you hit a bump the body pushes a lot of force into the arm trying to compress it, rather than in a stock (low) or long arm setup where the links are flat'ish and allow the diff to swing and the springs to absorb more of the hit. (hope i explained it right )

Yeah, that makes sense.

I've got a 3" flexy coil lift with 32.5" procomps and was under the impression that the upper arms were the limiting factor, so the thought was to go and A frame it, now I'm tending to think maybe not....just get a long arm kit!!!!! And some flex arms

Cheers, Dano.

I run a aframe an never had a problem an a 6 inche lift in a GU standed lenght arms it is great at high speeds the shocks have alot to do with the handling of the truck! at the end of the day keep it smiple as it comes down to driver an navagator!

CHOOFA wrote:I run a aframe an never had a problem an a 6 inche lift in a GU standed lenght arms it is great at high speeds the shocks have alot to do with the handling of the truck! at the end of the day keep it smiple as it comes down to driver an navagator!

so whats the advantage with running an A frame. Its proven that they dont give any more flex than std top arms, and there is no benefit in increasing the roll center (removing the panhard)? so what benefit did you get for the $$$

I see what you mean about higher roll centre now

It makes sense that winch trucks would run long arm kits with adjustable uppers.

Cheers, Dano

Tyres dont hit chassis when flexing ! An is easy to give a opinion when you dont race most of the winch trucks run standed length arms only afew run long arms an they are Sponsored by Superior Engineering!l

CHOOFA wrote:Tyres dont hit chassis when flexing ! An is easy to give a opinion when you dont race most of the winch trucks run standed length arms only afew run long arms an they are Sponsored by Superior Engineering!l

hahaha thats funny!

they work well, even on weekend play trucks.

the advantage of a three link upper or tri four link is the the diff cyciles(sp?) in a consistant straight up and down motion, where as a factory 5 link runnining a 4/6" lift with panhard will suffer with more rear diff steer on high speed compression. Changing the lower links may help elimante this, but the fact is the panhard will still need to push the diff on compression, even on torque walk under accelaration.

Look at Kym B and Birdys rigs they both run modifiyed rears and thats how I have had mine truck changed too, additionally I run a Climax industrys long link sway bar.

Mi2C.

Daniels

25 deg ramp 1350mm high, standard rear arms and panhard rod, 14" stroke shocks, front has different castor bushes, and drop boxes with 10" stroke shocks. Standard nissan arms.

This set up did numourous Simson trips, MAdigan line, hay river, CAnning via Transcontinental rwy, TAnami desert, Walker x ing, Vic High Country, Otways, as wella s daily driver, over its 2 year life I had it.

Longer lower arms, by about 250mm helps, A frame stops the rear steer while articulating the panhard rod gives, especially angled across ditches or spoon drains.

As a general thing, the closer to the ground, and the further out in front of the vehicle the intersecting point is, of the alignment of the rear arms, the better it will put its torque to the ground.

The front needs about 200mm longer arms, toyota rear of front arm bushes on GU arms with screw out pins, and machined ring inserts to take the bushes, new chassis mount behind the gearbox x member, and no more than 3" lift, to make it drive nice at speed, and handle.

You also need a minimum of 1 deg neg camber on 35" tyres and 1.5 deg on 37" tyres, and you want 17" rims for 37" tyres. 15" rims make the tyre terrible to drive on.

i am at a loss to understand what posing on a ramp has to do with winch challenges .

flexytj wrote:i am at a loss to understand what posing on a ramp has to do with winch challenges .

he was showing his droop and suspension set up, and explaining how well i worked

flexytj wrote:i am at a loss to understand what posing on a ramp has to do with winch challenges .

if you look under the pretty picture there is a whole paragraph explaining the whys and hows of the setup. This in turn is related back to further discussion others have had earlier in the thread about the advantages and disadvantages of other setups. It's about supplying good tech to the thread.

tna racing wrote:

flexytj wrote:i am at a loss to understand what posing on a ramp has to do with winch challenges .

he was showing his droop and suspension set up, and explaining how well i worked

you can have all the flex in the world but it is useless you know how to drive


you only need enough lift to fit the tyres under the guards and that is all .

better off keeping a low cog there is no need for massive lifts .

he has 3" of lift that is not massive amounts of lift

flexytj wrote:you only need enough lift to fit the tyres under the guards and that is all .

better off keeping a low cog there is no need for massive lifts .

I agree, Just enough lift so the tyres can get under the guards.
That way we can all bounce off our bumpstops every time we see a piece of dirt.

Thanks for your helpful insight.
Luke.

To fit bigger tyres, you cut the guards.
To avoid bouncing off the bumpstops adjust, tune and setup your suspension to suit your driving style-type.

AFeral wrote:To fit bigger tyres, you cut the guards.
To avoid bouncing off the bumpstops adjust, tune and setup your suspension to suit your driving style-type.

a decent set of well valved shocks and hydro bumps matched to the correct spring rate would go a long way to help with the bumps .