Outer Limits 4x4 Board

What is the difference between the G16A and G16B motors? Which is EFI? (no point in putting another carby motor in).

What sort of costs am I looking at all up, doing the conversion myself, including the motor and necessary parts?

Looking through the threads it looks as if BenT's adapter set is the way to go, as I understand this solves the issues with mating up to the sierra gearbox and the engine mounts?

Any advise on a good source for a motor?

As I understand apart from the adaptor kit, the issues I need to sort out are:
* Rear thermo housing and water outlet - what is the most elegant solution for this?
* Cut and shut the 1.3 - 1.6 sump because of the 1.6 crankangle sensor and swap oil pickup tubing and location
* Change dipstick and tubing
* Install the engine fan off the 1.3
* New exhaust manifold. Vitara 16v extactors - do these just fit or are modifications required?
* Fuel tank - i have a 70l custom tank, can I use this, what fuel pump setup do I need?
* Starter motor - I need to source a vitara starter motor. Is this correct?
* Change airbox - what is the easiest solution?
* Speedo - what exactly do I need to change?
* Is there anything else?

As for why I am doing this... Need more power. Replaced a piston in the original motor at 125,000km. At 160,000km it developed another knock which sounds like the same thing, I really need to pull the motor apart.

Put another motor in from a wreck but it is using water and seems low on power, white film on underside of oil cap, I don't think its gonna last too long, the head was probably damaged in the accident as the camshaft gear was broken in the impact.

Finally, what sort of improvement in daily on-road driving can I expect? The 1.3l got rather abused due to its sluggish performance on-road. I have 31's with 6.5 transfer gears.

Zachius wrote:What is the difference between the G16A and G16B motors? Which is EFI? (no point in putting another carby motor in).

What sort of costs am I looking at all up, doing the conversion myself, including the motor and necessary parts?

Looking through the threads it looks as if BenT's adapter set is the way to go, as I understand this solves the issues with mating up to the sierra gearbox and the engine mounts?

Any advise on a good source for a motor?

As I understand apart from the adaptor kit, the issues I need to sort out are:
* Rear thermo housing and water outlet - what is the most elegant solution for this?
* Cut and shut the 1.3 - 1.6 sump because of the 1.6 crankangle sensor and swap oil pickup tubing and location
* Change dipstick and tubing
* Install the engine fan off the 1.3
* New exhaust manifold. Vitara 16v extactors - do these just fit or are modifications required?
* Fuel tank - i have a 70l custom tank, can I use this, what fuel pump setup do I need?
* Starter motor - I need to source a vitara starter motor. Is this correct?
* Change airbox - what is the easiest solution?
* Speedo - what exactly do I need to change?
* Is there anything else?

As for why I am doing this... Need more power. Replaced a piston in the original motor at 125,000km. At 160,000km it developed another knock which sounds like the same thing, I really need to pull the motor apart.

Put another motor in from a wreck but it is using water and seems low on power, white film on underside of oil cap, I don't think its gonna last too long, the head was probably damaged in the accident as the camshaft gear was broken in the impact.

Finally, what sort of improvement in daily on-road driving can I expect? The 1.3l got rather abused due to its sluggish performance on-road. I have 31's with 6.5 transfer gears.

Sounds like your on the right track. a bit more searching the bible will answer most of the questions you have asked.

i just finished my G16b EFI 16 valve conversion and tested it out at lithgow on the w/e. Verdict is its a very worth wile conversion in my opinion (even though its a bit $$$$). It makes the car WAY more drivable on and off road and actually uses a lot less fuel.

to answer some of your questions (usual disclaimers).

-G16a -older carby motor (yes probably no point)
-g16b - newer efi motor (many variants of both g16a&b engines i believe)
-cost depends how you do it. lucky for me, a bought a vitara wreck, sold a few bits and bobs off it, ended up owing me about $700, benT $200, HD exedy clutch $210, auto sparky $500. and its running. local wreckers wanted between $1200 - $2000 for engine, computer, loom etc. then you still have rest. i recommend buying a complete vitara if you can find one cheap.
-benT's kit is good, although next time ill weld aluminium tabs on the g.box.
-MY 16v factory headers fit, with bit of tweaking, actually ive got 3/4 of the vitara exhaust under my sierra. it kinda fits!
-i bolted in the vitara tank, dont know what to do to yours
-i had 2 x 1300 starters, and one 1600 starter. they are identical. grinding the back of the starter housing to fit is easy.
-i used the vitara airbox, looks factory.
-speedo - doesnt yours run off the transfer case?


cheers nic.

He is prob talking about the tacho... But yes it does run off the TCase

Josh

yes, it does run off the tcase.

however on that note I have not seen any information regarding the tacho. What parts do I need to make it work?

*goes off to look for cheap vitaras*

Just look in the bible. I just spent the last 15min typing up responses to some of youre questions, but my f*%king fat fingers closed the window, buggered if im typing it again.

To get the tacho working, you might be able to buy some kind of converter box, i just grafted the baleno tacho (and speedo) into the sierra cluster and used the output from the ECU.

in my car, the tacho signal is picked up from the negative on the coil, and sent to dash using your original sierra wiring (can be picked up under glove box i believe).

also:

if you tap a welsh plug in the hole for the crank angle sensor, you can run the sierra sump without modification.. (still got to cut baffles to clear the oil pickup)

cheers nic

dad wrote:in my car, the tacho signal is picked up from the negative on the coil, and sent to dash using your original sierra wiring (can be picked up under glove box i believe).

Is this the 1.6 with the dizzy or the coil pack motor?

I think getting a standard Sierra tacho working from the coil pack motor is the holy grail of this conversion .

He means with dizzy, many people have tried with the coilpack to no avail, but im sure there is some kind of converter out there somewhere which is most likely cost prohibitive.

PJ.zook wrote:He means with dizzy, many people have tried with the coilpack to no avail, but im sure there is some kind of converter out there somewhere which is most likely cost prohibitive.

Yes, Ive been told of somebody up here in Brisbane to go see about this. Dont know for sure whether they can though.

This is who i got my speedo correction adapter from. Just told them what my speedo was reading and what speed i was actually doing. Was somewhere between $100-$200 including a new speedo cable (mine was rooted)

Highway-Star wrote:

dad wrote:in my car, the tacho signal is picked up from the negative on the coil, and sent to dash using your original sierra wiring (can be picked up under glove box i believe).

Is this the 1.6 with the dizzy or the coil pack motor?

I think getting a standard Sierra tacho working from the coil pack motor is the holy grail of this conversion .

mines a g16b efi with a dizzy (inbuilt coil)
if anyones interested i can check in the car exactly where its wired,
but the sparky told me he found a pulse from the negative on the coil, (i recall him playing with a brown wire) and sent it to the sierra tacho.

im still a bit confused as to what motors people are referring to/
my mates vitara engine is identical to mine, but it has a visible coil outside the dizzy, my coil is apparently inbuilt in the dizzy?
whats the deal with dizzy / coilpack?

dad wrote:mines a g16b efi with a dizzy (inbuilt coil)
if anyones interested i can check in the car exactly where its wired,
but the sparky told me he found a pulse from the negative on the coil, (i recall him playing with a brown wire) and sent it to the sierra tacho.

im still a bit confused as to what motors people are referring to/
my mates vitara engine is identical to mine, but it has a visible coil outside the dizzy, my coil is apparently inbuilt in the dizzy?
whats the deal with dizzy / coilpack?

The coil pack motors do not have a distributor. They have two "coil packs" on top of the tappet cover. Seems to be the Baleno Grand Vitara engines, and the Earlier Vitara and Swift seem to be dizzy (I cannot be sure about this one though).

Mines from a G16B made in Jan 0f 06, it’s got the coil pack in the dizzy. I would highly recommend getting the whole vitara or a front cut, just easier to not miss stuff out of the engine purchase. some of the stuff I needed to source after I bought the engine. Starter motor, O2 sensor, airflow meter, efi pump and fuel tank,.
On my engine out of a vitara the thermo housing is on the front and looks like it won’t be a problem to hook it up when I do (balino engine maybe different?),
after cutting the baffles out of the sierra sump and a small amount of moulding around the rear bearing the sump fit nice (iv seen pic's of balino sump modification required for the CAS and more work required with cutting and welding).
didn’t have to do anything with dipstick, it’s on the front and within easy reach (maybe balino engine thing again).
can install 1.3 engine driven fan if you want but you’d be losing the multi v pulley that already fits the aircon and power steer that might come with the engine, and the ever so easy EF alternator mod uses the multi v rib pulley.

hope it helps your decision. -TAZ

dad wrote: mines a g16b efi with a dizzy (inbuilt coil)
if anyones interested i can check in the car exactly where its wired,
but the sparky told me he found a pulse from the negative on the coil, (i recall him playing with a brown wire) and sent it to the sierra tacho.

im still a bit confused as to what motors people are referring to/
my mates vitara engine is identical to mine, but it has a visible coil outside the dizzy, my coil is apparently inbuilt in the dizzy?
whats the deal with dizzy / coilpack?

can you get the parrt number for this dsizzzy?

i have a suzuki dizzy from the states that is different to aussie ones (itsunder the house.. need to find it

dad wrote:in my car, the tacho signal is picked up from the negative on the coil, and sent to dash using your original sierra wiring (can be picked up under glove box i believe).

also:

if you tap a welsh plug in the hole for the crank angle sensor, you can run the sierra sump without modification.. (still got to cut baffles to clear the oil pickup)

cheers nic

the hole he is talking about has nothing to do with the crank angle sensor, i dont even think the g16b has a crank angle sensor!!! the hole is to alow the oil to drain out of your timing belt cover if a seal is leaking.... to alow to drain to the ground you dont get oil on your timing belt.
you will need to block this hole if you wanted to use a sierra sump..

danssurf82 wrote:the hole he is talking about has nothing to do with the crank angle sensor, i dont even think the g16b has a crank angle sensor!!! the hole is to alow the oil to drain out of your timing belt cover if a seal is leaking.... to alow to drain to the ground you dont get oil on your timing belt.
you will need to block this hole if you wanted to use a sierra sump..

Ok then... this drain hole your talking about... tell me more

This is a bog stock vitara sump.



So if what your saying is true, where does the oil drain through?????

Show us your drain hole.


For those in the know, wtf is that at the front of the sump?

it is just a drain hole to the road from your timing belt... your vitara sump goes around it...

dad wrote: For those in the know,

did you miss that part?

dad wrote:

dad wrote: For those in the know, boats

did you miss the ferry?

i know boats... u know rear ends... same difference???

i will call u at 2 am when i get stuck out at M tonight... u like that???

Settle down and keep it tech.

Layto....

Thanks for the advice so far.

So I ended up finding and buying a cheap Baleno over the weekend.

Its a 2000 model with 123k on the clock. It was in a minor accident and has scratches from going through a fence and a few dents. The person I bought it off had been told by a mechanic that there were problems with the head and there was water in the oil. It runs smooth and I still have to figure out what is going on with the head, the oil looks fine to me, I think the person got spun a bit of a yarn by the mechanic.

I got it for $1000, but am probably going to fix it up and use it as a daily driver (more comfy than the Sierra + it will allow me to do the conversion on the Sierra without worrying about not having a car ). However, it should let me work out what I need for the conversion now that I can see the motor in the Baleno.

So from what I understand there are two EFI versions of the G16B, a 8v single point injection and a 16v multipoint injection. Does anyone know which motors are in which models? How much difference in power is there between the two?

Zachius wrote: So from what I understand there are two EFI versions of the G16B, a 8v single point injection and a 16v multipoint injection. Does anyone know which motors are in which models? How much difference in power is there between the two?

Its not that simple.
I'll have a go at this, but I cannot garuntee it 100%, someone correct my mistakes please.


- 8Valve single point injection: Japanese import Vitara and maybe Swift. Dont know power/torque figures. ?

- 16Valve MPFI with Distributor: From EFI 1.6 Vitaras. Has the LHS air intake arrangement. 71kW @ 5600rpm, 132Nm @ 4000rpm.

- 16Valve MPFI with coil packs: From Baleno: 71kW @ 6000rpm, 134Nm @ 3000rpm (donors from auto Balenos are mapped slightly differently...).

- 16Valve MPFI with coil packs: From Grand Vitara: 69kW @5200rpm, 138Nm @ 4000rpm

These last two motors are very similar but not the same, Baleno has a lower inlet manifold, GV is like early Vit, but with intake at front like Baleno. They have different sensors too (details are boring). I actualy think the differences in performance can be explained by the bigger GV flywheel (cutting power, helping torque) and slightly different ECU mapping to suit. Therefore a conversion into a Sierra with the 1.3 flywheel will void some of the difference anyway.
Baleno has issues to deal with converting from E-W to N-S, GV does not have this. However I'm doing a GV conversion at the moment, and let me say the ECU is a royal pain. It has a built in immobiliser that the Baleno doesnt seem to have (not all GV ECUs have this, so not all are bad).
All In all, there is really little difference between the 16 valve motors performance wise. I would choose your engine on other factors: age, condition, price etc.

Suzuki sidekicks and Geo Trackers (and some other brand Sun Runner)

in the USA are 8v throttlebody injected (TBi /Spfi)' vitaras

the other engine config not covered above i the Swift 1.6l 16v TBi found in some aussie states in sedans (probably a good choice if you want a carb and vacuum dizzy set up rather than dealing with efi)

Today I bought a complete motor from a 99 Baleno for $800 with the ecu, wiring loom, starter motor, PS pump, both manifolds. A steal I would say.

Now I have to start with the work of getting together the stuff together to actually put the motor in and the fab work.

From reading some of your questions I recommend you get some help with the conversion. You are asking some very basic questions here that I would have thought anyone who knew what they were doing would know. Not saying you shouldn't do it, hell how would you learn if you don't but you may end up spending a lot of money on something and it all turning to shit because you got something simple wrong.

All these questions and you haven't asked about the speed sensor yet?
Not all 1.6 engines, even the 16V's had crank angle sensors, so it really depends.

heres a step by step guide for a 1600 conversion.. did mine about 5 months ago..
http://www.auszookers.com/index.php?nam ... conversion

thanks for the responses. that guide will no doubt be very helpful, although mine requires more work as it is a Baleno motor (E-W, rather then the N-S vitara).

@just cruzin': I am asking the questions cause I want to understand the potential problems that other people have run into. I do have a fair idea of what I am doing (I helped my Dad put a Chevy v8 diesel in his classic RR, and among other things have helped him rebuild a D7 bulldozer engine). No doubt this will be a learning experience but it is not going to be a big problem if I run into problems as the Sierra is not my daily driver.

Zachius wrote:As I understand apart from the adaptor kit, the issues I need to sort out are:
* Rear thermo housing and water outlet - what is the most elegant solution for this?
* Cut and shut the 1.3 - 1.6 sump because of the 1.6 crankangle sensor and swap oil pickup tubing and location
* Change dipstick and tubing
* Install the engine fan off the 1.3
* New exhaust manifold. Vitara 16v extactors - do these just fit or are modifications required?
* Fuel tank - i have a 70l custom tank, can I use this, what fuel pump setup do I need?
* Starter motor - I need to source a vitara starter motor. Is this correct?
* Change airbox - what is the easiest solution?
* Speedo - what exactly do I need to change?
* Is there anything else?

The coil pack Baleno motor makes for a very nice conversion if you do it properly, so you're off to a good start.

1. Get a Jimny or Grand vitara intake manifold, as these have the water outlet at the front in the same place as the Sierra. Swap in the Baleno injectors if you use a Jimny one.

2. Yep, cut the crank angle sensor part off the Baleno sump and weld into the G13 sump. Cut and shut the two pickups together (as per the instructions in my kit ). If you had more than 3" of lift and bumpstop spacing, you could fit a later model Vitara sump with the crank angle sensor hole as shown above.

3. Correct, swap the dipsticks. The Baleno engine sits at a different angle in the Baleno, so the dipstick will read incorrectly.

4. 1.3 fan works fine.

5. Yes, Vitara extractors fit. Some brands are better than others for clearing mounts etc.

6. If you can fit a Vitara in tank pump to your custom tank that will be perfect. Otherwise you will need an external high pressure pump - eg VL Commodore.

7. A narrow body Vitara starter is what you want - they bolt straight on with no grinding. Some Vitara's come with wide body ones just like the Sierra, so make sure you as for a narrow body one.

8. The Baleno or Jimny or G.V Manifold are front facing, so can be attached straight to the stock airbox. From memory using a combination of the Baleno rubber pipe and the Sierra one.

9. Nothing. Your speedo will work fine. You may want to put a VSS into your speedo cluster if your Baleno needs it. Some don't.

10. Only other thing I can think of is getting the tacho to work. I haven't done this, but I beleive the Baleno tacho can be installed in the Sierra gauge cluster.


Ben

BenT wrote: 10. Only other thing I can think of is getting the tacho to work. I haven't done this, but I beleive the Baleno tacho can be installed in the Sierra gauge cluster.
Ben

Yep - I've put the baleno tach in the sierra cluster.

It was fiddly, but came up looking pretty good in the end.



Steve.