Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Essentially I want to know if Suzuki ECMs from different cars can be interchanged?

More detail:
Got a G16B from a GV. ECM requires immobiliser garbage. Can get ahold of the immobiliser and key cylinder, and coil antena, however no key :( . Getting a key is possibly plausible, however may result in a big argument with a suzuki dealer. Also Id like to get rid of the immobiliser rubbish altogether.

Think I can also get ahold of a Suzuki Baleno G16B ECM (think it was late 90's model with coil packs still). Problem is the vehicle is a Baleno, and is also an automatic. Could I use this ECM? With relevent sensors of course. Particularly worried about the automatic part.

On more of an extreme, would even a G13BB ECM be any use?


What do people think would happen if I just hook it up and try it? would I kill sensors? kill ECM? kill engine (due to incorrect settings)?

Thanks.

By getting a relevant wiring diagram and finding out how the immobiliser curcuit actually works you may be about to ( out smart ) the ecm by rewiring the curcuit to bypass the key and immobiliser.
Im not familiar with this particular model so you would have to study a wiring diagram.
Good Luck

blutruck wrote:By getting a relevant wiring diagram and finding out how the immobiliser curcuit actually works you may be about to ( out smart ) the ecm by rewiring the curcuit to bypass the key and immobiliser.
Im not familiar with this particular model so you would have to study a wiring diagram.
Good Luck

Im 99.9% sure this cannot be done. Its software not Hardware (as such).
To avoid a full explanation, its essentially the same problem as was being had in this thread:
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic78539I

the vitara ecm has 2 connectors, jimny has 3 connectors. j20a has 4 connectors, how many connectors do you have?

mr green wrote:the vitara ecm has 2 connectors, jimny has 3 connectors. j20a has 4 connectors, how many connectors do you have?

You mean plugs into the ECU?
if so I have 4.
However I cannot find anywhere in the entire wiring diagram what one of them is used for. Only 3 appear to be used.


Edit: My ECM # = 33920-50J4 0
^If that is of any assistance.
It is also a black plastic box, not a pressed metal like some.


I think the Baleno G16B has 3 plugs?

Highway-Star wrote:You mean plugs into the ECU?
if so I have 4.
However I cannot find anywhere in the entire wiring diagram what one of them is used for. Only 3 appear to be used.


I think the Baleno G16B has 3 plugs?

yep plugs into the ecu.
i wired up a jimny engine and left the whole centre plug out. i believe that plug contains a stack of stuff that is not relevent when doing a conversion. abs info, a/c jargon, auto hub type stuff. so i wouldn't panic if you have to leave one out. however if the diagram you are using is the same as one i have were they list the g16b and the j20a on the same page as if they are identical, then don't trust the diagram for plug and pin locations. that diagram lists plugs with 3 rows of pins that i have never seen. handy for wire colour identification but thats about it.
all that said, if the baleno ecm doesn't plug straight in i would be looking for the key and immobiliser parts. even if the jimny did plug in, the mapping is different. this i why I'm a fan of buying crashed cars or front cuts when doing conversions, you know you have everything before you start and when you chop something out you can always put it back again.

mr green wrote:

Highway-Star wrote:You mean plugs into the ECU?
if so I have 4.
However I cannot find anywhere in the entire wiring diagram what one of them is used for. Only 3 appear to be used.


I think the Baleno G16B has 3 plugs?

yep plugs into the ecu.
i wired up a jimny engine and left the whole centre plug out. i believe that plug contains a stack of stuff that is not relevent when doing a conversion. abs info, a/c jargon, auto hub type stuff. so i wouldn't panic if you have to leave one out. however if the diagram you are using is the same as one i have were they list the g16b and the j20a on the same page as if they are identical, then don't trust the diagram for plug and pin locations. that diagram lists plugs with 3 rows of pins that i have never seen. handy for wire colour identification but thats about it.
all that said, if the baleno ecm doesn't plug straight in i would be looking for the key and immobiliser parts. even if the jimny did plug in, the mapping is different. this i why I'm a fan of buying crashed cars or front cuts when doing conversions, you know you have everything before you start and when you chop something out you can always put it back again.

This car was a write-off at auctions. I got the motor a few days after the wreckers bought it. However they said it never had the key (I think its strange but anyway).
- OK so scratch the Jimny ECM.
- I dont think the Baleno ECM will plug straight in. Not sure though.

In all honestly Id rather pay the money for an aftermarket ECU than have an annoying PITA immboliser in my car making useless clutter under my dash.

The other option: Anybody with a G16B powered SQ416 without an immobiliser who feels like giving me their VIN? (can PM if you want) Then I can see how much Suzuki would charge me for a non-immobiliser ECU for the engine (probably more than a aftermarket one...but can try). There are over 30 odd ECU part numbers for this model car!

do these plugs look anything like yours? j20a bout a 98 i think, no imobiliser

No, dont look like that.

Here is my ECM:
(label is the plug number in the wiring diagram that goes into the loom, notice one has nothing).

Mine has all the wiring for an auto aswell. we just left it disconnected and it is 100% as you know. So the auto part wont be an issue.

tanshi wrote:Mine has all the wiring for an auto aswell. we just left it disconnected and it is 100% as you know. So the auto part wont be an issue.

cool
So your donk was originally in an auto Baleno then?

nfi, but it works so not gonna compain You bring up a valid point though. i wonder if my other baleno one has the pin outs for an auto if not i might have some issues with the LJ.

Either way i cant see there being any problems, other than having to re wire all the plugs for the other ECU. will have to do that if you go after market any ways

tanshi wrote:nfi, but it works so not gonna compain You bring up a valid point though. i wonder if my other baleno one has the pin outs for an auto if not i might have some issues with the LJ.

Either way i cant see there being any problems, other than having to re wire all the plugs for the other ECU. will have to do that if you go after market any ways

Well then, I might get this ECM (have to get MAP sensor etc with it). Then you can have it for the LJ, and I'll take your ECM you got with the motor waiting for the LJ? and we'll see what I blow up?
or something like that anyway.


I'll see what else people come back with on here (and the other various emails I have floating around cyberspace) first before I make anymore rushed purchases.

I really cant see home much different the g16bs can actually be.

If you were to go a microtech aftermarket ecu they use all the standard sensors so surely the standard sensors will work for a baleno ecu, *shrugs* as long as the wires are hooked up in the right places and not pushing power into pins that cant take them all should be well.

tanshi wrote:I really cant see home much different the g16bs can actually be.

If you were to go a microtech aftermarket ecu they use all the standard sensors so surely the standard sensors will work for a baleno ecu, *shrugs* as long as the wires are hooked up in the right places and not pushing power into pins that cant take them all should be well.

Couple of sensors are different (Map vs AFM etc), but generally yes, I tend to think the same. Thats why I threw this out here for anyone who might know better to comment on.

I also saw a 1995 G16B powered Baleno ECM for a manual, however this car was not coil pack, and still had the dizzy etc, so I think I am correct in avoiding this one completely.

dont suppose you know if the jimny is map or afm? i have that spare ecu we could just connect up its not like im gonna use it for any thing else.

tanshi wrote:dont suppose you know if the jimny is map or afm? i have that spare ecu we could just connect up its not like im gonna use it for any thing else.

Dont have the fuziest...
Jimny G13BB owners?

As Mr Green said above, the G13BB mapping is different. Might run , but not sure how well? and Im pretty sure the Suzuki ECMs are not re-mappable?

But the plan would be to do it on the half Sierra on Castors so I guess I could try anything once...

jimnys are map. the jimny setup i had was on a 1.6 block. i had to fit a 2.2k ohm resister in series with the temp input to get it to run properly. no amount of fuel pressure will make up the difference

mr green wrote:jimnys are map. the jimny setup i had was on a 1.6 block. i had to fit a 2.2k ohm resister in series with the temp input to get it to run properly. no amount of fuel pressure will make up the difference

So thats the block temp, and a 2.2 kohm resistor. Nothing else?
Did the resistor come from Jaycar or alike?

I presume you were running Jimny head/injectors etc. I would wonder if the Jimny ECU would inject the right amount of fuel using the GV injectors (or is this built into the physical injector, not the software?).

I dont think converting my engine to MAP, would be too big of a deal actually. I think I had it figured that I just need to put the sensor in place, and rid myself of the AFM. (and wire it in of course).

I would look at getting the factory immobiliser working, it's not that hard with the right wiring diagrams. A mate & I put an EFI EJ25 into a 1986 L~Series Subaru Touring Wagon.

To get it to run we had to get the antenna that went around the key barrel & receiver box all plugged into the ecu & then called a good automotive locksmith who came out & coded the transponder in the key to the ecu & then he cut the key to suit the 1986 barrel!

Now it's got the factory immobiliser & with out the coded key it wont run. I think the 2 keys coded & cut cost $300 all up and the keys were about $100 each. Just make sure everything is all hooked up correctly before calling the locksmith.

problem with this is getting the GV lock barrel to fit in the sierra...

weigh up the cost differences and see which works out the best. im sure we can get the immobiliser working if you can get all the stuff.

tanshi wrote:problem with this is getting the GV lock barrel to fit in the sierra...

weigh up the cost differences and see which works out the best. im sure we can get the immobiliser working if you can get all the stuff.

there should be an antenna that surrounds the GV barrel, the key just needs to be near it to register & work.

atari4x4 wrote:

tanshi wrote:problem with this is getting the GV lock barrel to fit in the sierra...

weigh up the cost differences and see which works out the best. im sure we can get the immobiliser working if you can get all the stuff.

there should be an antenna that surrounds the GV barrel, the key just needs to be near it to register & work.

Yes, there is an antena that goes around the barrel, its still on the rather dismantled vehicle I got it from. I had a look over it today, it does appear easy to seperate from the key barrel.

My issue with the immobiliser system is the lack of the key. You can get a new key from Suzuki, however the ECM, ICM and key have to be tuned alike by a Suzuki dealer with the special equipment. To do this I have to wire in the entire diagnostics system as per standard in the GV, otherwise it will come up with error messages about this not working, and that not working etc, before the parts can be matched. I actually think the ECM and ICM get re-tuned to suit the new key, from the way I understand what goes on (apparantly they can accept up to 4 different key IDs).

So yes It can be done, but Im liking this method less and less the more I look into it.

Highway-Star wrote:

mr green wrote:jimnys are map. the jimny setup i had was on a 1.6 block. i had to fit a 2.2k ohm resister in series with the temp input to get it to run properly. no amount of fuel pressure will make up the difference

So thats the block temp, and a 2.2 kohm resistor. Nothing else?yep. the coolant temp sensorDid the resistor come from Jaycar or alike? yes, dick smith sold that sort of stuff at the time

I presume you were running Jimny head/injectors etc.yes I would wonder if the Jimny ECU would inject the right amount of fuel using the GV injectors (or is this built into the physical injector, not the software?).don't know

I don't think converting my engine to MAP, would be too big of a deal actually. I think I had it figured that I just need to put the sensor in place, and rid myself of the AFM. (and wire it in of course).

i don't think fitting a map sensor to a engine would be particularly difficult with a computer that is designed for it. however, i don't think it is a good idea to do it on your setup. you have a late model engine and management system, which is a cool thing but if you go mismatching you will loose your reliability and engine longevity. i did what i did because i had all the bits in my shed and it was a way of getting another motor going. but in your case you will have to source another computer,map sensor harness, hours of work and you will end up with a miss matched result. my vote will always be for the factory setup. get it running with all the immobiliser garbage and it will never be be a problem.

OK so ive done some reading, thinking, and lots of travelling around talking to people.

Cut a long story short, there is no immobiliserless ECM available for this incarnate of the grand vitara (earlier models yes, but this is a little bit too new).

And also I may have gotten the matching ICM and chipped key! the fellow who stripped the car found a spare key for it. I'll see how it goes from here.


This all aside, for my curiosity (and any potential unforseen muckups); mr green why do you say that changing the engine back to MAP and equivelent ECM will make it less reliable and long-living? Its essentially just changing it to a different configuration that it could have come from the factory as. Isnt it? Please enlighten me, what am I neglecting to see?

This was in regard to using a g13bb ecu that is designed for the 1.3. if you were going to da a ecu swap with a baleno and fit a map than thats fine. Thats if the ecu will plug into your vit harness, otherwise you'll be doing a harness swap aswell.

mr green wrote:This was in regard to using a g13bb ecu that is designed for the 1.3. if you were going to da a ecu swap with a baleno and fit a map than thats fine. Thats if the ecu will plug into your vit harness, otherwise you'll be doing a harness swap aswell.

OK, that clears all that up.
Thank you very much for your time and help.