Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I threw a temp probe into the intake post turbo the other day. I found the results somewhat interesting.

Engine - 1HZ w/ AXT Turbo, no intercooler, Automatic, snorkel.
Vehicle - '98 GXL HZJ105R Landcruiser w/ camper trailer and gear
Probe - Bead thermocouple placed mid airflow of intake crossover pipe.

• Boost - 9.5-10.5PSI
  
  Ambient - 20C-25C
  
  Intake Min (off throttle for 10 secs, no boost) - 55C
  
  Cruise Temp (7PSI) - 75C
  
  Max Temp (10.5PSI Cunninghams Gap w/ 720+ EGT) - 105C

An intercooler will obviously bring these down, but they aren't as high as I thought they might be.
I was suprised at the "off throttle" temps - considering the volume of intake airflow, I didn't think the turbo would conduct that much heat through. I see the rise to 55C from ambient being from conduction rather than compression or turbine efficiency.

The low temp rise at 10PSI means the compressor is actually fairly efficient.

I don't have turbo backpressure numbers to work out the turbine efficiency.

I'll update this when the intercooler is fitted.

It would be interesting if others posted any numbers they had for comparison.

Thanx
Paul[/list]

Marin's water to air Laminova'd TD42.

awill4x4 wrote:Marin's water to air Laminova'd TD42.

VERY nice, very very nice.

I don't know what the car is used for, but I would be interested to see how it goes towing a large trailer up a range (high load, moderate to low speed, long duration - the hardest test).

Paul

From 25-105C with only 10psi is pretty average. I was getting not much more than that with 15psi at 20C inlet temps.

Your temp rise (if it's due to air compression and not heat from other sources) represents a compressor efficiency of 60%.

I've got a sprintex supercharged 1hz 80 series with a wire thermocouple mid crossover pipe. I get about 100-105*C at 100kph with 25ish ambient temp. No idea what the boost pressure is tho. I will be intercooling it soon too and find out how much difference it makes.

My 2F-ETI

Pre and post intercooler temps, Garrett GT30 82R @ 9PSI making 180+rwkw Laminova intercooler

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:

awill4x4 wrote:Marin's water to air Laminova'd TD42.

VERY nice, very very nice.

I don't know what the car is used for, but I would be interested to see how it goes towing a large trailer up a range (high load, moderate to low speed, long duration - the hardest test).

Paul

http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/showthre ... t=laminova

KiwiBacon wrote:From 25-105C with only 10psi is pretty average. I was getting not much more than that with 15psi at 20C inlet temps.

Your temp rise (if it's due to air compression and not heat from other sources) represents a compressor efficiency of 60%.

Hmm, 60% is on the low side of most maps.

My guess is the rise from 25 to 55 is conduction - it's constant without boost.

The instantaneous swing on / off throttle (0-10PSI) is 60C to 80C, but I think that is dampened somewhat by thermal masses.

55 to 85 is worst case boost rise (instantaneous) but with some cooling due to the thermal mass of the pipe and housing (dampens the swing).

The rise from 85 to 105 is heat soak through the turbo (conduction) from sustained high load operation (EGT's from 500 to 700) and heat soak into the housing and pipes (reduced cooling fom the pipes)

So approx 30 maybe 35c rise from 0 - 10PSI
What's the adiabatic heating from an increase of 10PSIG? (I can't find an online calculator from this slowass connection)

Thanx
Paul

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote:From 25-105C with only 10psi is pretty average. I was getting not much more than that with 15psi at 20C inlet temps.

Your temp rise (if it's due to air compression and not heat from other sources) represents a compressor efficiency of 60%.

Hmm, 60% is on the low side of most maps.

My guess is the rise from 25 to 55 is conduction - it's constant without boost.

The instantaneous swing on / off throttle (0-10PSI) is 60C to 80C, but I think that is dampened somewhat by thermal masses.

55 to 85 is worst case boost rise (instantaneous) but with some cooling due to the thermal mass of the pipe and housing (dampens the swing).

The rise from 85 to 105 is heat soak through the turbo (conduction) from sustained high load operation (EGT's from 500 to 700) and heat soak into the housing and pipes (reduced cooling fom the pipes)

So approx 30 maybe 35c rise from 0 - 10PSI
What's the adiabatic heating from an increase of 10PSIG? (I can't find an online calculator from this slowass connection)

Thanx
Paul

I was acheiving a similar efficiencies with 10 psi on my old IHI which had a dust eroded compressor wheel. Changing to a T25 with a good compressor wheel carved over 30 deg off my 15psi charge temps.

Check your intake routing, see if there are any places where you think it's picking up a lot of heat. It does take a lot of heat to bring the intake temps up 30 deg C. Maybe shift the probe to pre-turbo temperature to check.
The temperature rise depends on the inlet conditions, but at 10psi and 25C intake it's 73C for a 100% efficient compressor.

Been petrol rather than Diesel and having a the advantage of a Wolf V500 stand alone ECU I can monitor on the run both pre and post temps and data log them.

Running around off boost 50-55 is where my intake temps sit without the snorkel on. With the snorkel on around 30-35 pre intercooler.

Here is a snap shot of a run showing 2-3-4-5 foot on the floor full noise.



The top graph shows pre and post temps, red is post but half the scale of yellow yellow is to scale. The second graph is MAP and Boost. The third graph shows RMP and Throttle position.

We also monitored some runs while helping out on the bush fire relief with the same results and plenty of weight on board.



This kind of technology in a 40 is scary

matt.mcinnes wrote: This kind of technology in a 40 is scary :D

How does it work? I didn't know they had invented electricity back then :D

Paul

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:

matt.mcinnes wrote: This kind of technology in a 40 is scary

How does it work? I didn't know they had invented electricity back then

Paul

They came out with 3 wires I added one more