Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I was looking at getting a lift for a Grand Vitara that i am going to buy.
But then I realised that insurance companies wont insure your car if its not roadworthy.

It has confused me heaps becuase i was talking to a bloke at the local 4x4 store and he told me that they all have lifts over the restriction height, and none of them have got them engineered. Does that mean none of them are insured????

I have head in WA that the limit is 2.5inches.. is that including a body lift?

thanks

its 50mm whether it be body, suspension or tyres or a combination of all. insurance companies will insure you but if you have a serious accident and they deem that your vehicle being unroadworthy casued the accident well then you're shit out of luck.

what 4x4 store told you that??? sound like a salesman out for a cash grab and not your best interests!

Truth is, if you're about 2" lift in tyres or susp. in WA, its illegal and insurance doesnt have to honour your claim. However this generally only applies in a "write off" situation when they come do an inspection, and even them some are lucky to "get away with it" - but is it worth risking? thats up to you.

My zuk (sierra) is on 31's SPOA and is fully engineered - so if i crash and kill someone i dont go to jail for manslaughter =) lol

it was actaully an arb store.. but he seemed pretty nice

great so u cant even lift it over 50mm with tyres and suspension? that sucks

how much does it cost to get it engineered? and is it worth it? i heard if i gets crashed when its getting tested they just hand u the keys back n say unlucky.

so whats the point of even getting full insurance??

supersean89 wrote:it was actaully an arb store.. but he seemed pretty nice

great so u cant even lift it over 50mm with tyres and suspension? that sucks

how much does it cost to get it engineered? and is it worth it? i heard if i gets crashed when its getting tested they just hand u the keys back n say unlucky.

so whats the point of even getting full insurance??

In case it disappears and is never seen again...

lol i ask myself that question all the time...

Brad

alien wrote:what 4x4 store told you that??? sound like a salesman out for a cash grab and not your best interests!

Truth is, if you're about 2" lift in tyres or susp. in WA, its illegal and insurance doesnt have to honour your claim. However this generally only applies in a "write off" situation when they come do an inspection, and even them some are lucky to "get away with it" - but is it worth risking? thats up to you.

My zuk (sierra) is on 31's SPOA and is fully engineered - so if i crash and kill someone i dont go to jail for manslaughter =) lol

Don't be so sure on that 1 lol you can go to jail even if your car is legal, depends how you are driving lol

sooo maybe just get fire and theft cover?

damm those ppl wth hell expensive cars must hell be risking it. i dont think im that extreme haha

supersean89 wrote:how much does it cost to get it engineered? and is it worth it? i heard if i gets crashed when its getting tested they just hand u the keys back n say unlucky.

so whats the point of even getting full insurance??

that depends - i recommend jack apgar as an engineer, he got mine through... engineering will involve a lane change test, and coming into winter you'll be waiting till around november/december before the next one... cost - allow about $1500-2000 for engineering depending on the work involved - if its just a 2" lift and tyres i doubt itll cost anywhere near that - but as soon as welding etc is involved theres more inspecting to do!
lane change test alone is about $900 depending on how many vehicles show up for testing.

so is it worth it? that depends on your attitude i spose - if you're going to lay out cash on engineering you may as well lift and tyre it as far as you can go within the rules... so more than a 2" lift and slightly larger tyres.

as for getting "full insurance" - i cant get comprehensive on my zuk - the only place that would do it was "just car" and they'd only insure me for $5k and the annual fee was about $600!!! HBF turned out to be the best for 3rd party insurance though. But dont forget, 3rd party is still void if your car is illegal.

omg insurance is so badd

my mates hilux, which he spent over 30 grand on, has more than 2" lift. n im pretty sure he doesnt know that if he crashes he wont be covered. cos he even has big tyres too.

a 2 inch lift is hardly nething! and i wanted to get bigger tyres. but an extra 1000 bucks to get it road worthy. thats pretty steep.

agggrr why do they have to have all these stupid rules!

because the people responsible for making the rules are self proclaimed 4wd haters =) welcome to the WA department for planning and infrastructure - how may we rape your wallet today?

alien wrote:I recommend jack apgar as an engineer.

How did you find him to deal with in general. i.e. does he want money up front before you discuss with him what your planning, or will he happily have a chat about what your planning then bill you when you decide to go ahead with it.

I've seen this guys name around a few forums so he must be popular.

wow. they sure are 4wd haters ahah

so i now gota decide if i want insurance or a lift kit and tyres.

or both with the added engineering expense. greatttt

supersean89 wrote:wow. they sure are 4wd haters ahah

so i now gota decide if i want insurance or a lift kit and tyres.

or both with the added engineering expense. greatttt

Why not buy a second hand car in good condition with all that done to it already? then all youd have to do is get the insurance

supersean89 wrote:so i now gota decide if i want insurance or a lift kit and tyres.

what are you going to do when you run into that $100,000 Merc? or that pedestrian? Is it that hard to decide?

stuee wrote:

alien wrote:I recommend jack apgar as an engineer.

How did you find him to deal with in general. i.e. does he want money up front before you discuss with him what your planning, or will he happily have a chat about what your planning then bill you when you decide to go ahead with it.

I've seen this guys name around a few forums so he must be popular.

He's freakin awesome... call him up and tell him what you plan to do, he'll guide you as to what you can and cant pass, then based on that submit initial application to DPI, if its accepted then you start work and get jack to come and see the build at various stages (he;ll tell you when he wants to see it) - this is when it starts costing as he has to prepare reports etc, and i think his time is worth about $120 an hour including travel time! after that its about $900 for the lane change and final report to DPI. then you need to go over the pits for a full inspection before you get your papers.

But yes - he is great to deal with and doesnt beat around the bush - he also has a very open mind when it comes to mods - just make sure you can answer him as to why you want a 4" spring lift instead of 2" spring 2" body etc =) he needs all the reasoning behind your decisions as well.

mm yeah maybe ill just stay within the limits n not have to worry about engineering. it all seems like a big expense and a mega hassle.

alien wrote:Truth is, if you're about 2" lift in tyres or susp. in WA, its illegal and insurance doesnt have to honour your claim.

No. This is not the truth. It is a common internet myth.

This has been discussed on this forum within the last week, with feedback from somebody who works in insurance claims.

The insurance company may be able to legally deny the claim, but it will depend on the specifics of the accident.

Either way, as alien and others have pointed out, driving an unroadworthy vehicle is a significant risk.

in other words.. they can still insure you and pay you out. but they can also turn around n say forget about any money, ur car is unroadworthy?

supersean89 wrote:in other words.. they can still insure you and pay you out. but they can also turn around n say forget about any money, ur car is unroadworthy?

They can legally deny a claim if, and only if, they can convince a court that the accident would most likely have NOT happened if the defect was NOT present.

Did the defect cause the accident? If yes, you're screwed.

Would the accident have happened whether the defect was there or not? If yes, you're covered.

Obviously, there's going to be massive "grey areas" in most accidents. Insurance companies may "try it on" - so you need to know your rights.

The easiest way out is to drive a vehicle which is acknowledged to be "roadworthy". If that means spending $$$ with an engineer then consider it additional insurance.

mm far out.. i can see some massive arguments coming into this whole "insurance" saga..

i am thinkin to just stick with the roadworthy idea.. i dont think i have enough $$$ to engineer and all

looks like my grand vitara will have to still look "girly" haha
hopefully the low ground clearance wont affect my offroading

your best bet is to drive the hell out of it stock for at least 6 months anyways... then youll establish the kind of tracks you're doing most and you can modify to suit those conditions... ie: sand you dont need big lift or flex etc...

So does winding up torsion bars etc constitute lift? or is this all within the cars stock abilities and thus you can wind up then put in an inch of body lift and 2 inches bigger tyres (i.e 2 inch lift)?

theres original manufacturer's measurements by which all transport authorities go by... theres a website somewhere where you can search your vehicle and it comes up with measurements too. so if it came standard with the highest point of the roof at 1.5m from the ground and they measure yours more than 1.52 off the ground you're boned law wise =)

laws suck!

they have made everything so complicated..

i will probably just go with having it stock, n if i find that its lacking ground clearance, then ill go for the lift kit.

what tyres are recommended for beach driving btw?

alien wrote:theres original manufacturer's measurements by which all transport authorities go by... theres a website somewhere where you can search your vehicle and it comes up with measurements too. so if it came standard with the highest point of the roof at 1.5m from the ground and they measure yours more than 1.52 off the ground you're boned law wise =)

Makes buying a hi-top Drover and body swapping to a Sierra sound attractive....