PART TIME 4WD kits Questions

[westie]

Part-time 4wd Kits 4 80 & 105 series Cruisers

No 1 Car is ) 1993 4.5lt Petrol GXL (Manual)

No 2 car 1 is ) 2002 105 series 4.5 Petrol GXL Auto Solid Axle ( Auto.)

a) Modification: Part Time 4WD kits for each vehicle

b) Cost and supplier of Kits Have price and supplier on Maxi Track Kit.

c) Advantages and Disadvantages

Summary: Ok Have been told a few stories regarding fitting these kits.

Q1) If I fit these kits I loose Centre Diff lock on both Cars and the vehicles is then just a AWD vehicle and not a dedicated 4WD.

Q2) If I put the kits in and break a front CV then the car is unable to be moved at all, cause you have no drive at either front or rear.


Q3) On the 100 series without the kit fitted and you are in Low range descending down a steep decent, with the Centre Diff lock on ( Auto comes on in Low) there is a good chance you may break a CV
due to the diff lock applying the same power to each axle.

Q4) On the 105 if I fit the kit then I will loose ABS as it is read of the speed sensor on the shaft.



Q5) Is there any problems fitting 16" rims and tyres off a late Mod 80 to a early Mod 80 with 15"Rims.

Q6 Is it a good Idea to remove and tape up the Low range switch on the back of the gear box so when you select low range it will not auto go into Diff Lock mode to activate Diff lock you then push the button on the dash ONLY when you want to engage Centre Diff Lock.


Guys in your replies could use the A, B , C , Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4, Q5, Q6 so I know what question you are answering. Also what car you are refering to .

[shorty_f0rty]

Got another question or 4.

If you've got a leak at the transfer end of the rear shaft is it worth putting a part time kit in when you go to replace a seal?

or is the partime kit specifically for the front shaft end of the transfer?

Can you install the part time kit without removing the transfer?

Is it possible to use a transfer from a DX 80 so you can install a PTO?

All my questions relate to a '91 hdj80.

Thanks!

[westie]

Mate not being rude here but I can see this is going to get confusing maybe you should have started a new thread regarding your questions.

[V8 Hilux]

I put a part time kit in manual 93 GXL 4.5ltr (marks part time kit - AVM hubs)

a)kit comes with with good instructions (need a tension wrench and access to a press - to press a bearing on and off)

b) think about $500 think most sell the marks one anyway

c)Less front diff wear, better economy, 2WD or 4WD no AWD. i'm happy with it

Q1) Think of the tranfer as a single spinner or open wheeler diff. When push to centre diff lock swith it is locked. With the part time kit its just like putting a spool in except un can unlock it. (not recommended to drive on bitumen with tranfer locked you lose AWD with the kit)

Q2) Yon can unlock front hubs and drive. Breaking a CV wont effect tranfer. (if badly break CV may lock up in hub - can remove cv and axel a still drive) YOu can fit a part time kit without free whelling hubs! But front diff still turning over when driving (wearing etc) so i don't see the point of doing it that way.

Q3)Not sure with 100. With to 80 when put tranfer in low normally it would lock (kit tells you to un plug auto lock) locking controlled only by swith on dash in high or low

Q4) Not sure about ABS

Q5)Problem only the other way (fitting 15 to 16)

Q6)Allows you to use 2wd unlocked. good idea i think

[croozaman]

fitted a Marks kit to our 80 (only because kit came with it when we bought it). To be honest unless you are worried about front diff wear and tear (unlikely) save your funds and dont bother with it. The only difference with ours was a very slight reduction in driveline shunt when you lift the foot off. Fuel economy is near identical certainly nothing like the claimed savings. If I knew then what I know now I would have sold the kit and left it as it was

[westie]

V8 Hi-lux thanks for that detailed reply, will take it all onboard the main reason I was doing it was to reduce the Driveline takeup, my daughter has just bought a 80 after having a Vitara that she thinks is a sports car and races through the gears and the driveline takeup is getting a hell of a workout, she is slowly changing her style of changing gears realising this is not a sportscar and it needs to be treated differantly not say they are weak and unable to take the rough treatment but abuse is another thing.

On my 105 we are after more fuel saving and power increase, being auto the drive line takeup is not quite as bad as her Manual. Have been told upto 100k's extra per tank full and that is a big savings these days.

croozaman interesting you are the first to have a negative view on the conversion, so I will be interested in others if they share the same views.

[Jeff80]

Mate,
I have done the Marks conversion to a 93 80 series manual petrol. In my experiences, I have not saved any money in petrol. I found that everyone will tell you that it saves you money, but in reality, I'm yet to see any decent savings. Definately nothing worth having a party over.
I did however, see a remarkable difference in driveline back lash. This has helped me a heap. I have found that it has also made my turning circle a bit tighter (I don't have any hard evidence of this, just what I have observed).
If you asked me would I fork out the $500 or so to do it again, yes I would. For me I base that on the virtual removal of my back lash (which was pretty bad before the kit) and the peace of mind of the less wear in my front end.
I would suggest to make up your own mind on what you want to gain out of it. If it is purely based on fuel economy, thinking you will get an extra 100km's from a tank, then IMHO scrap the idea.



My 2c.

Jeff

[g35me]

I broke my centre difflock into a million pieces so the reason of swapping to part time was an easy thing for me to do. Its an easy instalation and you have less wear and tear on the front drive line.

[westie]

What were you doing at the time climbing or decending with diff lock engauged tell me more

[coights 40th]

Problem you will have with your 105 series is the ABS.
To do a part time kit you are right in the fact that you will loose the ABS as the pickup is on the front driveshafts inside the swivel hubs, not on the disc rotors like some.
Only way to overcome this problem is to leave the hubs as they are and not fit free wheeling hubs, defeats the purpose a little of doing any changes at all.
Legalities of removing the operational status of ABS for roadworthiness and insurance is the main problem. Your car will be deemed unroadworthy if checked by a competent inspector and if in an accident, don't expect you insurance to cover you if they find out you removed the ABS feature.
I looked into doing this on my 40th anniversary 80 series and decided not to after getting advice .

[tas80]

I was planning to fit a part time kit to my 80, when my front driveshaft needed new unis I removed it and used the cruiser for a couple of days with the centre diff lock activated and no front shaft giving me rear wheel drive, during normal cornering and wet days there was a noticable difference in how it was handling. Might be worth you doing the same and see if you notice any difference before going out and buying the kits.

[westie]

This is great guys a good overall responce to my many questions.

So far it is looking that the 80 is ok to do the conversion kit as back lash will be improved Fuel savings will be minor, but then in wet conditions my daughter would be better of with it kept standard to retain AWD is this correct.

[80's_delirious]

totally agree with tas80. take out the front drive shaft and try it before you fork out the coin.
I think they handle much better and are far safer as full time 4x4 in all conditions. I have personally avoided what should have been a fatal accident due to fulltime 4x4s better handling in the wet.

Dont do it because you daughter has bad driving habits. Teach her that it is more truck than sports car and should be driven as such.

check for wear and tear on CV and drive flange splines, worn splines cause excessive driveline backlash when getting on and off throttle. CVs and flanges can be replaced for similar money to part time kit

oh and you can be farily sure g35me was abusing his CDL in his far from stock 80 series (V8, large aggressive tyres etc etc etc)

there is no fuel economy gains, reduced wear and tear is of questionable value, I'd bet most '93 models will still have original CVs etc so not a big issue IMO

check out this link take it with a grain of salt, obviously they have vested interest in talking them up, but it might answer sme of your questions

[lokka]

Yep i agree with tas80 making it a part timer will change its driving habbit and you will have to change yours cause in the wet if it steps sideways in the rear it will scare the crap out of ya leaving it AWD is much safer and if it has a clunky drive line you need to replace the front cv's and drive flanges with the upgraded ones to limit the slop as the front drive flanges wear out because in AWD when u take off its actualy using the front right wheel to do the work ...

Lots of people dont understand this but its how it is with an AWD power is sent to the wheel with the least amount of traction this is with the CDL off as it has 3 open diff centers in the drive line if you jack up any one wheel with the CDL switched off and try and drive off the car wont move unless the diff the wheel is on has a locker fitted or LSD center ...

My opinion spend ya money on a lock right for the rear so ya can drift it in the wet

[westie]

Guys yu have just about convinced me to leave it alone and look at the CV's Etc first

[Luxo]

My part time kit goes in tomorrow. I have upgraded from the earlier cv's and drive flanges to the later long spline ( post 94 ) CV's and genuine drive flanges. This helped with the backlash but far from eliminated it. I have tracked the majority of the slop down to the front diff itself ( I'll rebuild it at a later date )

I have fitted the free wheeling hubs and have been driving around with the Centre diff locked ( front shaft still spins but no drive to front wheels ) and there is basically zero backlash.

Of course it will seem to handle poorly when you first drive it after having the kit installed. The toe setting is completely different for the full time GXL than it is on the standard and DX models. You will HAVE to get a wheel alignment done and tell them it has been converted to conventional 4x4.

Awd induces understeer, very scary in such a big truck...Id much rather have the back step out on me than understeer into a tree

[westie]

Well great test for it in the wet in QLD this week luxo. Did you get it all done if so how does it feel on the road

[Luxo]

Yeah mate shes in and I couldnt be happier. Still have to get a wheel alignment as it is wandering a little now but nothing over the top. I no longer have to think about how quickly I release the clutch between gear changes. Smooth sailing

[westie]

So we have someone that thinks it is a worth while mod by the looks of it. what was the all up cost and what kit did you use.

I Spoke to Mud4b old man as he has the mod done and thinks it is great also and he has not had the weels re aligned.

[Luxo]

I used the 4wd Systems kit which cost me $499 and 20 bucks delivery I think. I had a mate of mine ( gearbox and diff specialist ) fit the kit. I had a few bearings and seals replaced as my transfer had a bit of noise in it. Most places will charge $300-$350 to fit the kit alone.

[westie]

Thanks would like to be kept up to date if you have any issues with it in the future.
Also any other good points like better Lt per tank Etc.

[shanegtr]

Q1) If I fit these kits I loose Centre Diff lock on both Cars and the vehicles is then just a AWD vehicle and not a dedicated 4WD.

Centre diff lock function is replaced for part time function. An full time 4wd with the centre diff locked is exactly the same as a part time 4wd when 4wd is engaged. The centre diff lock button becames a 4H switch.

Q2) If I put the kits in and break a front CV then the car is unable to be moved at all, cause you have no drive at either front or rear.

You'll always have drive to the rear axle. If you happen to bust a CV as has been mentioned above you just unlock the free wheeling hubs and go back to 2H

Q3) On the 100 series without the kit fitted and you are in Low range descending down a steep decent, with the Centre Diff lock on ( Auto comes on in Low) there is a good chance you may break a CV
due to the diff lock applying the same power to each axle.

The centre diff lock only applies equal power to the front and rear driveshafts. It has nothing to do with the diff in the front axle so your no more likely to break a CV then any other 4wd out there

Q4) On the 105 if I fit the kit then I will loose ABS as it is read of the speed sensor on the shaft.

You will lose ABS pulse ring being located on the CV. With part time the CV does not turn when your normally in 2H and will therefore bring up an ABS fault

Q5) Is there any problems fitting 16" rims and tyres off a late Mod 80 to a early Mod 80 with 15"Rims.

No

Q6 Is it a good Idea to remove and tape up the Low range switch on the back of the gear box so when you select low range it will not auto go into Diff Lock mode to activate Diff lock you then push the button on the dash ONLY when you want to engage Centre Diff Lock.

As mentioned above you will no longer have a centre diff lock. Not 100% sure, but it the low range wiring is left on wouldnt it just operate the part time setup the same as when it is full time - ie. automatically engage 4L when you shift the lever to low range? With the plug left connected you wouldnt be able to run in 2L

Hope that answers a few questions

[westie]

Yes allot of the questions may sound stupid but I am better asking, as the safety of my daughter is at stake.

My 105 looks as though it stays Std for insurance purposes ( ABS)

Thanks to you all for your simple explanations to the questions I have asked