Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Was just wondering how i would go about learning to make fibreglass moulds etc.
I would like to be able to make moulds off existing panels to make fibreglass bonnets/guards etc.
Surely it can't be that hard, are there any good books on the subject?
Have had very basic experience when i was younger but i've forgotten most of it.
Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

www.google.com.au

I would say to search, but you would have done that already for the last few threads on it.
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/search.php

fat496 wrote: Surely it can't be that hard.

ah famous quotes the sort which is quickly followed by frustration of a job gone wrong.

ha ha nah just having a go.

glass work is not that hard but there is specific methodology behind getting it correct.

I have made moulds and generally done a fair bit of composite work, but im no expert.

Panels would not be the easiest things to mould. a bonnet skin would be easy, but a front qtr for instance would be much harder, mainly due to the sharp corners beside the bonnet etc where it all bolts in.

not that its not doable, it just again needs more specific materials and methods.

I would say get a book or go visit someone who does some work and ask if you can be their bitch for a day so you can watch.

making good moulds is probably the hardest part. as you have to get it right. where as each thing you then make up if its no good you just throw it away and start again without much work lost.

personally id rather just buy a $70 taiwanese panel new than both making the panel.

Oh ok, thanks Bogged. i wouldn't have thought of either of those truly brilliant answers by myself. i appreciate the time and effort you have taken, considering your endlessly mindless job of cutting and pasting articles from other websites, to guide me to these amazingly helpful, yet seemingly overlooked gems of the modern 'interweb'. You have singlehandedly made my coming weekend a joyous and now fully productive event, as i set upon the mighty noble quest of typing a word into google. Thanks again, Bogged. You're the greatest.

Thanks for the advice, thehanko.
At least some people on here are willing to offer their experiences and try and guide others in the right direction.

Yeah but i'm actually chasing a fibreglass bonnet and bumpers for my VE Valiant.
i know a fair few 4by panels are available on the cheap, but there doesn't seem to be much around for the older stuff.
i thought if i could do it myself then i could punch a few more out and cover some of the costs.

fat496 wrote:Oh ok, thanks Bogged.<edit tear filled drivel>
You're the greatest.

anytime.

bogged wrote: search

R3POST

fat496 wrote:

bogged wrote: search

R3POST

did you think that all on your own?

gee, lets see how hard it really is
From outers
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/ft ... ight=mould
Hmmmmm.
about 54,300 for how to make fiberglass moulds. (0.37 seconds)
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q ... =&aq=f&oq=

no wonder search doesnt work..

fat496 wrote:Yeah but i'm actually chasing a fibreglass bonnet and bumpers for my VE Valiant.
i know a fair few 4by panels are available on the cheap, but there doesn't seem to be much around for the older stuff.
i thought if i could do it myself then i could punch a few more out and cover some of the costs.

If your looking for a new hobby, then give it a go. just dont expect them to come out perfectly first time. but materials are cheap.
those panels look pretty straight forward, not much contour to them.

if you use thinner mat (not chopped strand its to hard to bend) and twill e\weave if you can find it in glass then it will deal with compound curves better,

somepeople deal with tighter radius corners by filling them first to fill the corner, then lay the mat over that fill, but its hard not to get air bubbles in corners like around the bonnet.

I would personally do the bonnet first as its going to be a simpler shape, just make sure you brace the mould well as it will tend to want to warp cause its so big and flat.

Some mates of mine used to make carbon body panels and would charge about 3k for a new vehicle shape due to the amount of work to get the mould good to start with. so just keep it in mind. oh and they went belly up so might not be much money in it

making the mould is the hardest part by far, especially for large expanses. once you have a decent mould made off your existing panels, sharp corners are quite doable, get plenty of gelcoat down first then you have to use lightweight chopped strand matt (3/4 ounce) and build it up slowly, making sure you roll out all the bubbles. the biggest mistakes most people make when fibreglassing are trying to build it up too fast, and using too much resin and not enough glass. the glass is where the strength is, the resin basically just sticks the glass together, so for it to be strong, it has to be mostly glass - use the minimum resin to wet the glass.

bogged, if you've got nothing useful to say, stfu.

dumbdunce wrote:making the mould is the hardest part by far, especially for large expanses. once you have a decent mould made off your existing panels, sharp corners are quite doable, get plenty of gelcoat down first then you have to use lightweight chopped strand matt (3/4 ounce) and build it up slowly, making sure you roll out all the bubbles. the biggest mistakes most people make when fibreglassing are trying to build it up too fast, and using too much resin and not enough glass. the glass is where the strength is, the resin basically just sticks the glass together, so for it to be strong, it has to be mostly glass - use the minimum resin to wet the glass.

bogged, if you've got nothing useful to say, stfu.

100% apparently the ideal ratio of material to resin is 70:30 by weight.

you can also cheat and use products like glass bubbles in a resin mix to make a filler for the corners (after the gel coat which is the first layer you put down), its a little more structural than the gel coat which tends to like chipping.

How would you allow the fibreglass panel to be fixed, like for a bonnet? DO you have to glass in some metal parts or brackets?

A large flat panel like a bonnet will be difficult to get a good copy of without getting ripples in the surface. You need to give it good structural support like on the underside of an original metal bonnet.
Pressed metal panels have a fair bit of stifness from the pressing process, fiberglass wont.
Guards and panels with more shape will be self supporting and stiffer.

If you are going to make a reproduction, you will need a good straight panel to make a mould from, otherwise you reproduce the blemishes in the original part. you may as well find one that is good enough to use.

As far as cost of materials, by the time you make a mould and then a good useable panel, even if you get it right first go, assuming you will be paying retail prices for materials, I dont see it being a cheap option. Dont count on recovering costs, how much demand is there going to be for reproduction fiberglass bonnets for a VE val??

80's_delirious wrote:A large flat panel like a bonnet will be difficult to get a good copy of without getting ripples in the surface. You need to give it good structural support like on the underside of an original metal bonnet.
Pressed metal panels have a fair bit of stifness from the pressing process, fiberglass wont.
Guards and panels with more shape will be self supporting and stiffer.

If you are going to make a reproduction, you will need a good straight panel to make a mould from, otherwise you reproduce the blemishes in the original part. you may as well find one that is good enough to use.

As far as cost of materials, by the time you make a mould and then a good useable panel, even if you get it right first go, assuming you will be paying retail prices for materials, I dont see it being a cheap option. Dont count on recovering costs, how much demand is there going to be for reproduction fiberglass bonnets for a VE val??

With stuff like a bonnet the best/easiest way is to pull the metal skin off that frame, then put your new glass skin onto that frame. keeps it structural.

Thats the way the guys i know used to do it with their business, something to do with rego and changing skins is ok but not structures or something.

i would think there would be a small market for a val but not huge, but realistically he probably doesnt want too much demand.

but yeah alot of material and time goes into moulds. I know a guy who makes kayaks and he paid 5k to a company just to finish his mould to ensure it had no slight waves and to bring a very high shine to it.

hey mate, it isnt very cost effective if you only need one panel , the mould is the hard part so once you have that see if anyone else wants to buy whatever your making to get back some coin and share the love.
i used to make up guards and bonnets&boots for old galaxies mainly to save weight(bonnet weights bout 80kg or something stupid.
if you are still interested in doing it, some tips.
*make sure the panel is perfect and buffed(the more work you do here the less you'll have to do to all the repo's)
*wax it up real good and use release agent asell
*gel coat it
*wet out 300gsm skin over it
*depending on what the panel is lay up another 2x 450gsm chop over it and then coremat then maybe 450 over that.
*dont do anymore than 2 layers at a time or use hot brews or it'll pull off the mould and buckle
*brace the perimiter (if bonnet) with plywood and something and glass that down
*clean off the edges with a grinder (or stanley blade if still green and save the itch)
* get some wood wedges and start bashing em in around the edges until it pops off,(you will now see if it was waxed properly)
*mould done
now repeat for the product without such an extreme lay up.
to work out costin 1L resin will wet out 1m2 of cloth roughly

hope this helps

thehanko wrote: With stuff like a bonnet the best/easiest way is to pull the metal skin off that frame, then put your new glass skin onto that frame. keeps it structural.

That might be possible with newer stuff but VE is 1968(?) so anything around will be rusty.
I have spoken to my father (shipwright/boatbuilder) about making XA Falcon bonnets in glass and he said we could make it in 3 pieces, all glass, no steel needed even for the hinge area.
1 the outer skin.
2 the smooth underside.
3 the inner frame.
I want these to look like steel originals including where the skin is folded over the frame at the edges.
Mat you can talk to him yourself when you get the bender.

bru21 wrote:http://www.boatec.com/video3.htm

wow that was an impressive shine on that mould - and on the finished product straight from ther mould.

Note that that was infusion moulding not normal layed up moulding for people who dont know. Its a far more difficult method to get correct but once you have it set you can knock them out the same every time.

Did anyone else notice that as he is pulling the masking tape off for the waves / flames he pulled up some of the first colour he sprayed on? does any one know how to avoid this? or what to do when it does happen? cause he was ripping that tape out without a care in the world for what he had sprayed on.

nice work

looks like he used fineline tape (bluey colour in the vid) first to give the design an outline then masking tape for the bulk of it. Masking tape is no good for producing a clean edge, its not smooth enough.

looked like he pulled up some of the first colour, but i think it was just more of the fineline tape for the rest of the wave. hard to tell, the vid was the size of postage stamp

I have found with painting that if the tape is folded back on itself as you peel it off (so you are pulling with your hand almost flat against the surface) it doesnt pull the paint up away from the surface.