Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Gday,

Im trying to decide on which direction to head with the driveline for my comp truck...

I am running GU diffs, so with that in mind i want to run a centre rear output transfer case.... so was thinking of running a GQ either duels or rockhoppers transfer.

With that in mind....

I want to run a V8 and want to run Fuel injected as ive had my share of LPG and not keen on running it anymore...
Was at this point leaning towards a 5 litre holden 304, mainly as i can see alot of conversion kits available for these......

So what options do i have in a gearbox?
I want to run an Auto....

Was thinking i could run a GQ AUTO behind the injected V8 with an adapter, then just have the GQ transfer on the back....
But ive read problems with GQ autos behind the V8s and need some work done...???? any info on this would be great....

Also i was thinking of buying a complete 5 litre injected with an auto T700 attached to it and buying an adapter to run the GQ tranfer....
This auto would be much lighter, though are they strong enough???
Do they need any work to be ok or can i just plug and play?
Do they have a computer? id prefer one without...

Someone suggested i run a T400 behind the 5 litre Injected. Is this possible? do they bolt up no prob??

could i run a Rover V8 and auto with GQ transfer? is there such a kit?

any suggestions or help would be great. Im looking to buy asap as im ready for the driveline so any advice will be a God Send.

cheers guys

Screwy

How big an issue is it in a comp truck if your transfer and diff centre are not aligned? Looking at the Rover V8/ZF/LT230 option such as what many of the buggies were running. Vibrations I would have thought would be the only issue, but how fast do you drive it and for how long? I think many were also running Holden/T700/LT230.

well i might yet go down that path.... it would mainly be cost for doing that. Rover drivelines are far cheaper...

The main reason i want to run a straight shaft if i can is because if i decide to rego this thing, i dont want to have to change driveline. Running a shaft on that angle will completely elliminate my ability to get rego if i ever decide to compete in more comps then TTC, or ever want to drive to a track one day.

Screwy

Screwy wrote:Gday,


Also i was thinking of buying a complete 5 litre injected with an auto T700 attached to it and buying an adapter to run the GQ tranfer....
This auto would be much lighter, though are they strong enough???
Do they need any work to be ok or can i just plug and play?
Do they have a computer? id prefer one without...

Someone suggested i run a T400 behind the 5 litre Injected. Is this possible? do they bolt up no prob??


cheers guys

Screwy

This option would be the by far the most common and therefore probably easier. The T700 with the V8s are very strong and would hold up to being in a comp rig. A T400 or T350 are also good boxes and can be built to handle way more horses than you will ever need.

You wouldn't be the first to run GQ trannies behind that combo. I am pretty sure Cheezy ran a T350 and dual GQs in his Mav, but that engine was bigger and worked of its tits - and on gas.

Micka wrote:

Screwy wrote:Gday,


Also i was thinking of buying a complete 5 litre injected with an auto T700 attached to it and buying an adapter to run the GQ tranfer....
This auto would be much lighter, though are they strong enough???
Do they need any work to be ok or can i just plug and play?
Do they have a computer? id prefer one without...

Someone suggested i run a T400 behind the 5 litre Injected. Is this possible? do they bolt up no prob??


cheers guys

Screwy

This option would be the by far the most common and therefore probably easier. The T700 with the V8s are very strong and would hold up to being in a comp rig. A T400 or T350 are also good boxes and can be built to handle way more horses than you will ever need.

You wouldn't be the first to run GQ trannies behind that combo. I am pretty sure Cheezy ran a T350 and dual GQs in his Mav, but that engine was bigger and worked of its tits - and on gas.

so a stock T700 would do the job without mods needed?
Anyone know what sort of setup they require as far as computers etc go?

screwy

Early T700 does not need any electronic control in a comp rig. The only electronics on them is torque converter lockup, which will not be required.

th400 and atlas. Comp trucks don't need overdrive, stronger to run no overdrive and taller diffs. Sorry I'm trying to palm mine off! Its passenger drop though.

Having done gq 5 speed and dual transfers I would go atlas for length and for less complicated shifting (one lever less). Also should work out stronger (no chain) and lighter. Gq duals are not that cheap either - th400 adaptor is $1145, dual kit is $1025 + shifter kit $295 + 2 piece front shaft (+500 over normal shaft) +2x nissan case ?$400 pair. Also need #45 torx bit or new bearing $75. I had to sit my motor very low too so the transfer didn't hang down too far, which made it close to the diff.

Atlas is always a good talking point too Ha ha, and you can do front digs!







Vs This: http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic160542-120.php

304 & non computer T700.

Biggest reason is that there is alot of tech about how to set up the engine and gear box from the drag boys.

I have been doing ALOT of research as I am pulling the turbo diesel 4.2 out and fitting a 304 to GQ Manual to my ute.

Price wise it will be the same to setup a 304 with under bonnet blower as the 5.7 or 6L. Biggest differance is blind freddy can rebuild a 5L GMH motor and they are so cheap.

Cheers Nick

does anyone know the rough weight of the 304 and turbo700?

Why not the angled shaft?

Tailshaft doesn't know which ways is up.

My front shaft runs from offest driver at the transfercase to centred at the diff and the rear shaft runs from centre transfer output to offset passanger at the diff and it'll cruise at 110km/h on an interstate trip with no vibrations or issues whatsoever.

Just trying to keep your options open as the angled tailshaft vibration issue is a myth.

From experience stretching truck wheelbases, a completely straight path from flange to flange will give you the most grief.
Flange face angles have to be spot on, but the uni's need to be working otherwise you get all sorts of vibration issues.

If I was starting to build a car right at this minute I'd buy Bru's Atlas and 400, then buy the Dynatrac D60's that are for sale on here, then buy some kind of turbo pattern, injected V8 that comes new in a box.

Wendle wrote:If I was starting to build a car right at this minute I'd buy Bru's Atlas and 400, then buy the Dynatrac D60's that are for sale on here, then buy some kind of turbo pattern, injected V8 that comes new in a box.

x2


But then again Its hard to go past Mogs.

Well im not building a winning comp truck here.... im building something that will get be back into the game and im doing it on a budget so atlas and things like that are not on my radar.

I want to run gear that if things go shit later, i can put into my GQ shorty without too much drama....

so basically.... looks to be that you guys think that a VN V8 and T700 are the go?

screwy

Screwy wrote:Well im not building a winning comp truck here.... im building something that will get be back into the game and im doing it on a budget so atlas and things like that are not on my radar.

I want to run gear that if things go shit later, i can put into my GQ shorty without too much drama....

so basically.... looks to be that you guys think that a VN V8 and T700 are the go?

screwy

In fact, im aiming for something thats better then my Green MQ i comped in, but nothing as nuts as the one i never finished on mogs......

I might yet run an angled shaft.... the only reason i want to stay away from it is for rego reasons. i want to keep the shaft straight if i can help it so that if i ever decide to rego it for other comps other then TTC, it wont be an insane amount of work to do it....
An angled shaft like that wont get through rego and engineers.

Screwy

Screwy wrote:... i can put into my GQ shorty without too much drama...
screwy

This is another reason I am going 304 and GQ gear, its not too modified.

D60's and Atlas and T400 is nice but if you need to unload it, there are only a small number of people that will buy it lessening your chance of sale.

304 - T700 - GQ Transfer could be bought by any one from tuff truck guys to tourers.

Cheers Nick

Screwy wrote:

Screwy wrote:Well im not building a winning comp truck here.... im building something that will get be back into the game and im doing it on a budget so atlas and things like that are not on my radar.

I want to run gear that if things go shit later, i can put into my GQ shorty without too much drama....

so basically.... looks to be that you guys think that a VN V8 and T700 are the go?

screwy

In fact, im aiming for something thats better then my Green MQ i comped in, but nothing as nuts as the one i never finished on mogs......

I might yet run an angled shaft.... the only reason i want to stay away from it is for rego reasons. i want to keep the shaft straight if i can help it so that if i ever decide to rego it for other comps other then TTC, it wont be an insane amount of work to do it....
An angled shaft like that wont get through rego and engineers.
Screwy

Why wouldn't an angled shaft no get through rego and engineers? At worst I would have thought that you'd run a double double cardin shaft. The shaft is designed to run with offset uni joints.

Slunnie wrote:

Screwy wrote:

Screwy wrote:Well im not building a winning comp truck here.... im building something that will get be back into the game and im doing it on a budget so atlas and things like that are not on my radar.

I want to run gear that if things go shit later, i can put into my GQ shorty without too much drama....

so basically.... looks to be that you guys think that a VN V8 and T700 are the go?

screwy

In fact, im aiming for something thats better then my Green MQ i comped in, but nothing as nuts as the one i never finished on mogs......

I might yet run an angled shaft.... the only reason i want to stay away from it is for rego reasons. i want to keep the shaft straight if i can help it so that if i ever decide to rego it for other comps other then TTC, it wont be an insane amount of work to do it....
An angled shaft like that wont get through rego and engineers.
Screwy

Why wouldn't an angled shaft no get through rego and engineers? At worst I would have thought that you'd run a double double cardin shaft. The shaft is designed to run with offset uni joints.

They will take one look at a shaft like that and not pass it. All of the rough engineers are gone now.......

Have seen all of the options you are debating.Keeping things as simple as you can will be def your best bet.Hard shifting from 1st to second in low range will end up torching a turbo 700 sooner rather than later.For me if you wanted a 5 ltr I`d find a 400 and do a stage 2 while its out .Nissan autos can be made strong but will run into $4000 or so to be made safe and you said you were on a cash limit.Keep in mind It`s a trap that happens easy doing things on the cheap they can cost you just as much in the long run and you have a 2nd rate set up you are unhappy with.If I wanted to do a v8 gq it would b a gen motor (can get cheap now) and spend the dollers on the nissan box up front.Gens love water and better donk all round the commey radiator even fits sweet.Cheers Billy

Screwy wrote:
They will take one look at a shaft like that and not pass it. All of the rough engineers are gone now.......

I still dont understand why they want pass it. If it dosent bind or hit anything. Then whats the issue?

5l and turbo 400 all the way, the guy thats building my 400 showed me the difference between that box and the 700 which i was originaly goin to use, 1 look changed my mind, a 400 is a shit load stronger than a built 700, and will handle pretty much any sort of abuseu throw at it as long as its set up rite!

So whats the purpose of a stage 2 kit in a turbo 400?
Is this needed? and what does it do?

can i do without?

screwy

Jeff you douche!!!
TTC2008 whos truck did you work on???
you really were wasted werent you! - no wonder my lockers didnt work.
304 motor.
TH400 box.
dual GQ transfers!

TH400 is good gear. mine was a cheap and rough one and it did die. but now its been rebuilt i have had no problems.

my only concern, and this is worse with the dual transfers and because i pushed my motor back. is the length of the driveline!
and weight... 304 isnt light but is good cheap gear.
Th400 is simple no electrics to worry about and old school heavy!
and GQ transfers arent light.

Didnt have any idea what setup you were running twon, only new the motor was a 304....

Im aware the gear isnt light.... though it is stuff i can re use in my shorty or easily pass on later if i need...... so this is a major factor....

The major drama with rover stuff is the drive shaft. I just dont want to run such a large angle when im running a H260 airlocked diff in the back. last thing i need is extra angle to twist a pinion off if i get unlucky.

screwy

turps wrote:

Screwy wrote:
They will take one look at a shaft like that and not pass it. All of the rough engineers are gone now.......

I still dont understand why they want pass it. If it dosent bind or hit anything. Then whats the issue?

Curious on this one 2 - any idea WHY/Where you think it's not allowed?

Wooders wrote:

turps wrote:

Screwy wrote:
They will take one look at a shaft like that and not pass it. All of the rough engineers are gone now.......

I still dont understand why they want pass it. If it dosent bind or hit anything. Then whats the issue?

Curious on this one 2 - any idea WHY/Where you think it's not allowed?

Well the particular engineer that i used to use wouldnt pass it. He wouldnt even pass a track bar.... Mind you he would pass a V8 and SPOA....
The reason i was given as to why he wouldnt pass it was because, for him to pass a vehicle it needs to be within a certain range of standards and be honestly able to fully work on road to do the same tasks the car would do from factory.

He believed that with such a severe angle on the driveshaft the vehicle would not handle properly and would vibrate and behave in such a way that wouldnt be acceptable for road use, along with the fact that it adds increased stress to driveline and at highway speeds there is far more risk of problems.... If a uni broke and highway speeds with a gearbox handbrake you lose all gearing and handbrake ability.... I dont think he liked added extra stress to a critical area such as this....

I asked him about it when i put the GQ box and transfer in my old MQ with MQ diffs ( drivers side diff, centre transfer ).....

screwy

But there is no problems with a SOA?

Slunnie wrote:But there is no problems with a SOA?

SOA is simply lift. I was made to install my sway bars, no track bar and have very specialised after market steering kits available to get it passed.

Ideally, thinking about it, he would most likely pass a rover driveline in the truck if i ran a strong centre bearing over to the middle and had a straighter shaft....
I just know he wont pass it with it just running straight across the way it would, besides......

My old comp truck had that setup, was the worst thing i did to it, my on road ability dropped like 60 percent and i gained 20 percent offroad....
Its a poor compromise when i can simply spent abit more upfront and use the right gear and not worry about a large shaft angle thats going to put extra strain on my diff pinion......

Ill run it with an angle if i run out of money and need to run cheap, otherwise id prefer to run another option.....

guys i understand your points for the rover setup, though as mentioned in the very first post of this thread i wont run that unless i have to, so with that in mind id much prefer to listen to some open ideas and advice on what others have run as far as the setup that im looking at so i can make up my mind on that, and also what mods are needed for that.....

screwy

i think the engineer you were talking to had a very loose grasp on the principles of mechanical engineering. If he's worried about and offset driveline but is happy with all the foibles on a SOA (on a car not designed for it) then perhaps it would be better if you approached a better educated engineer.

an offset driveline is not different to a driveline that is linear when viewed from above but has a higher output shaft compared to pinion. It's only the plane that is different.

I have a 75 series that is running 80 series axles. there is an offset left to right due to the 80 gear being wider than stock. At speeds of up to 120-130kmh there are no driveline vibrations at all. (plenty of other vibrations though )

i think you should be asking some PROPER engineers instead of relying on outers oracles

Screwy wrote:

Wooders wrote:

turps wrote:

Screwy wrote:
They will take one look at a shaft like that and not pass it. All of the rough engineers are gone now.......

I still dont understand why they want pass it. If it dosent bind or hit anything. Then whats the issue?

Curious on this one 2 - any idea WHY/Where you think it's not allowed?

Well the particular engineer that i used to use wouldnt pass it. He wouldnt even pass a track bar.... Mind you he would pass a V8 and SPOA....

He believed that with such a severe angle on the driveshaft the vehicle would not handle properly and would vibrate and behave in such a way that wouldnt be acceptable for road use, along with the fact that it adds increased stress to driveline and at highway speeds there is far more risk of problems.... If a uni broke and highway speeds with a gearbox handbrake you lose all gearing and handbrake ability.... I dont think he liked added extra stress to a critical area such as this....

I asked him about it when i put the GQ box and transfer in my old MQ with MQ diffs ( drivers side diff, centre transfer ).....

screwy

No track bars - So much for getting a standard patrol or Jeep passed then
The issues he's outlined are the same for height - and are simply a matter of keeping the joints within their opperating range - as said above the prop shaft/unis don't know which way is "up".

Screwy wrote:

Slunnie wrote:But there is no problems with a SOA?

SOA is simply lift.

Sorry but IMHO a SOA is plenty more than just lift - it's like having a wank and thinking just cause you came it was a root