Outer Limits 4x4 Board

how yas goin,
i got a hilux and need it 2 go further places so was gunna put a lockright in the front but i hav no power steering so i dunno if i will turn the wheels with the hubs in.
should i put the power steer on first and then go locker or just go the locker.thx

Makes almost no difference.

Mine unlocked with the strength from your little finger.

Inside wheel doing the, driving would give a slight difference.

Paul

They are designed to unlock when turning because one wheel is traveliing slower than the other, they will kick in when offroad and make it hard to steer but on road should be fine.

Cheers

Obviously no difference on road cause you would have your hubs unlocked. Off road in my brothers lux I don't think it makes it much harder than it already is.

yea ino on the road it would make no difference but when ur wheelin i thought it would b a PIA to turn and are they worth spending the money or do u rekon an air locker would b better.

83-mud-lux wrote:yea ino on the road it would make no difference but when ur wheelin i thought it would b a PIA to turn and are they worth spending the money or do u rekon an air locker would b better.

That's a can of worms in itself, personally I think they are a worthwhile investment. I have not used one but people I know who do say a slight adjustment in driving technique can overcome any "locking when you don't want it" issues.

Cheers

What we really need is a selectable detroit..

Struth wrote:They are designed to unlock when turning because one wheel is traveliing slower than the other, they will kick in when offroad and make it hard to steer but on road should be fine.

Cheers

They only unlock decelerating, when locked or when accelerating the outside wheel when turning will roll more than the inside wheel, until wheel spin and then understeer, steering will not be an issue, mine is non power, but getting used to the way any locked front reacts is the only thing to worry about, which is nothing when you are able to tackle stuff you never could before.

SUPESLOWLUX, ive never driven a front or rear locked car but wat is so different about it being locked or unlocked do u hav to drive it differently.

STRUTH, havin a locked diff is always better in my opinion but im not an expert. so i dont see y u would want it unlocked at times.thx fellas im just trying to not b sumthing i dont want thats y im asking so many questions.

83-mud-lux wrote:SUPESLOWLUX, ive never driven a front or rear locked car but wat is so different about it being locked or unlocked do u hav to drive it differently.

STRUTH, havin a locked diff is always better in my opinion but im not an expert. so i dont see y u would want it unlocked at times.thx fellas im just trying to not b sumthing i dont want thats y im asking so many questions.

I have detroits front and rear and you have to be aware of the greater turning circle with the front locker. Also remember that when it is under load it is locked so you need to get used to that.

Times you may want it unlocked is tight turning, some side slopes when you are trying to drive to the high side and your front slips down and when you wish you could try something unlocked to see if you get through it.

You will only know it's there hen the hubs are locked in.
When it locks it makes turning the steering wheel hard and turning the actual car hard, nothing to stress about just something to be aware of and get used to.

Cheers

put an auto locker in u will go places. it will unlock when turning slowly.

you will notice a very slight difference with the hubs locked on road because the lockrite lockers are designed to lock up under torque, so when you go round a corner one wheel is spinning quicker than the other and loading up the centre, quick way to fix this make sure your hubs are'nt locked. The main difference with having a locker in the front is the steering under acceleration both wheels are spinning at the same speed so one is always going to slip, thats the benifet with the air locker you can turn it off.
I started of with no power and a locker with 35's and then put the power steering in about 2 months later, it did make a vast improvement but that depends on how big your forearms are.
Going up a steep slippery hill is about the only time ive ever wished i could turn it off because they have a tendency to walk sideways a bit, but i've had it in the front of my lux for 5 years and i still think its one of the best improvements i've made.

OK, sorry to get tech, but $500-$600 for lokka vs $1200 plus compressor air locker, on solid rock type ground -good grip autos win, slippery stuff they both will tend to understeer, last thing you want to do is engage air locker in the middle of a hill climb-momentum is lost? Auto in front is the way to go unless you plan on doing a front and rear air locker setup, just engage it before you start, dont worry about steering, get used to it.

righto well no-one has regreted buying one so i will buy one in the near future thx heaps guys..

i dont do real hard stuff.
hardest thing ive done is out at landcruiser park.
camp road
test track
airlocker ave
want to see wat hilux hill is like but doubt i will get up there haha.

vk7ybi wrote:What we really need is a selectable detroit..

They have 2 models, one is called a air locker, and the other is called get your arse out of the seat and unlock a hub.

83-mud-lux wrote:righto well no-one has regreted buying one so i will buy one in the near future thx heaps guys..

i dont do real hard stuff.
hardest thing ive done is out at landcruiser park.
camp road
test track
airlocker ave
want to see wat hilux hill is like but doubt i will get up there haha.

old hilux hill is well doable with a locrite front and unlocked rear, the rest are all doable and done without any lockers.

Only thing i dont like about autolockers is you dont have the choice of having a go with no lockers, a twin locked car is capable of most tracks making it risky on the cars panels imo to be challenged.

83-mud-lux wrote:righto well no-one has regreted buying one so i will buy one in the near future thx heaps guys..

i dont do real hard stuff.
hardest thing ive done is out at landcruiser park.
camp road
test track
airlocker ave
want to see wat hilux hill is like but doubt i will get up there haha.

You migh want to read this before another fool tells you they are locked all the time

http://neuralfibre.com/paul/4wd/mechanical-auto-lockers

And put them in the rear, not the front, unless you run with an empty light alloy tray.
Lockers aren't much use downhill
Uphill your back wheels are doing the work.
Ppl say, yeah, but the front is in the air... - well if a front is in the air, there is no weight on the opposite rear, and therefore no traction. Climbing hills, the back does the work. The only exception is step ups and really light ute back ends.

Paul

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:

83-mud-lux wrote:righto well no-one has regreted buying one so i will buy one in the near future thx heaps guys..

i dont do real hard stuff.
hardest thing ive done is out at landcruiser park.
camp road
test track
airlocker ave
want to see wat hilux hill is like but doubt i will get up there haha.

You migh want to read this before another fool tells you they are locked all the time

http://neuralfibre.com/paul/4wd/mechanical-auto-lockers

And put them in the rear, not the front, unless you run with an empty light alloy tray.
Lockers aren't much use downhill
Uphill your back wheels are doing the work.
Ppl say, yeah, but the front is in the air... - well if a front is in the air, there is no weight on the opposite rear, and therefore no traction. Climbing hills, the back does the work. The only exception is step ups and really light ute back ends.

Paul

wat .....

money_killer wrote:

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:

83-mud-lux wrote:righto well no-one has regreted buying one so i will buy one in the near future thx heaps guys..

i dont do real hard stuff.
hardest thing ive done is out at landcruiser park.
camp road
test track
airlocker ave
want to see wat hilux hill is like but doubt i will get up there haha.

You migh want to read this before another fool tells you they are locked all the time

http://neuralfibre.com/paul/4wd/mechanical-auto-lockers

And put them in the rear, not the front, unless you run with an empty light alloy tray.
Lockers aren't much use downhill
Uphill your back wheels are doing the work.
Ppl say, yeah, but the front is in the air... - well if a front is in the air, there is no weight on the opposite rear, and therefore no traction. Climbing hills, the back does the work. The only exception is step ups and really light ute back ends.

Paul

wat .....

i think he was trying to say "pop rivet a locker in the rear not the front", after that, who knows ??

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote: You migh want to read this before another fool tells you they are locked all the time

http://neuralfibre.com/paul/4wd/mechanical-auto-lockers

Paul

I agreee they are not "locked all the time" however I disagree with your little article. Auto lockers are locked until one wheel is driven faster than the other (and therefore the crownwheel). If you are driving along a straight road (with equal size/pressure tyres etc) both sides are effectively locked and drive is provided through both tyres to the road. it is only when the vehicle encounters a difference in wheel speed between sides that one side will unlock - for example a corner, the outside wheel will unlock. a difference in TRACTION will result in the axle remaining locked both sides.

for example you take a vehicle with an auto locker into a low traction situation (eg mud, wet grass), and give it a stomp, both wheels on the locked axle will spin, both will provide drive, and both will be driven at the same rotational speed as the crownwheel.

if you put one side of the vehicle on a low traction surface (mud, ice, wet grass) and the other side on a high traction surface, (rocks, concrete driveway etc), drive will be provided through the axle with traction however the other side remains locked to the crownwheel and the other axle because it is not over-driven.

auto lockers only unlock when one wheel is overdriven. in a corner, this places all the driving force exactly where you don't want it - on the inside of the turn - the moment generated by the driving force on the inside of the turn acts to counter the turn. the result is that in most situations a vehicle with a fully locked rear axle (locked air locker, spool, welded etc) will will have a smaller turning circle than the equivalent vehicle with an auto locker in the same axle.

yes auto lockers unload and unlock easily in no load situations (like when you've installed it and you go and play with the wheels and get them to freewheel), however on rough tracks the situation isn't so clear cut - you may be climbing a ledge with one wheel on the verge of unlocking when the other wheel slips, causing the almost-ready-to-unlock side to try and bang back into the locked state - right on the lead radius on the top of the teeth. you may never have sen it happen, or the results, but I sure have.

note that a "wheel in the air" scenario is not a situation in which an auto locker "unlocks" a wheel - a wheel in the air is LOCKED to the crownwheel however it is very easy to re-engineer this situation into an overdriven wheel situation - with the force of a little finger. if the wheel on the ground is stopped, the slowest, easiest movement of the flying wheel will cause it to uncouple from the centre because it is being over-driven.

in other words, if the diff is driving the wheel, it is locked. if the wheel tried to drive the diff, it should instantly uncouple.

auto locker performance is made worse by (who would have guessed) poor installation with lokka/lockright type diffs, with incorrect spacing of the side "gears". In detroits, which wisely separate the ramping and locking action into two separate mechanisms, I have seen the drive dog stripped completely from the side "gears" by this "almost unlocked - bang into locked" scenario.

there are offroad situations where you don't want an auto locker which have been discussed in this thread an many others. tight turns, off camber situations with questionable traction, soft, grassy areas (eg campsites) which have adequate traction to drive slowly on if you have drive to two wheels on an axle - ie open diff) however not enough to keep an auto locker uncoupled because all the drive has to happen hrough one wheel on that axle = torn up grass. YES there are situations where an open diff has better (ie smoother, more predictable, less likely to cause wheel spin) traction than an auto locker.

I know you're anti air locker because whatever chump installed yours stuffed it and caused it to leak and you're not prepared to accept a huge body of evidence that indicates it is not due to inherent design flaws, and to be sure the air locked design is not without its potential for problems, however leaking air is amongst the least of them - with an air leak the worst you have is a perfectly operational open diff. there are many and serious design flaws with auto lockers (especially the lockright/lokka flavour) which result in accelerated tyre and driveline wear, unpredictable (arguably dangerous) on-road handling performance, and a failure mode that is almost always catastrophic and terminal. The service life of these devices is questionable and the total cost of ownership mitigated over the life of the vehicle (or the device, say, for a competition/hardcore vehicle) is less for an air locker.


I don't mind installing lockrights, detroits etc, because I'm more likely to see those diffs back for a rebuild, broken pins/springs, broken gears etc. the air lockers get installed and I never see them again, they hardly ever even send a postcard

cheerio

and yeah whatever traction aiding device you buy, put it in the rear.