Outer Limits 4x4 Board

hey fellas,

how do you correctly size a turbo for a motor, i have the opportunity to get a t03(vl turbo) for next to nothing, just requiring a rebuild, i figure they are on a 3 ltr petrol, that revs to 5 - 6 grand, if you put it on a 4ltr diesel, it would hopefully spool up buy around 1200?? or as the 2h only spinns to about 3500, it would come in at more around 2g, and not be useable??

am just curious, as we all know the 2h is a slouch, and some day some go would be nice, so as that is a cheeper option i may look into it, either that or putting in a 12ht, or a v8 diesel.

hope some one can point me in the right direction.

Al

Wambat wrote:hey fellas,

how do you correctly size a turbo for a motor, i have the opportunity to get a t03(vl turbo) for next to nothing, just requiring a rebuild, i figure they are on a 3 ltr petrol, that revs to 5 - 6 grand, if you put it on a 4ltr diesel, it would hopefully spool up buy around 1200?? or as the 2h only spinns to about 3500, it would come in at more around 2g, and not be useable??

am just curious, as we all know the 2h is a slouch, and some day some go would be nice, so as that is a cheeper option i may look into it, either that or putting in a 12ht, or a v8 diesel.

hope some one can point me in the right direction.

Al

that turbo will go ok on a 2H. but a rebuild will cost more than just getting a decent turbo from a wrecker or off ebay. then you have to manufacture a manifold or adaptor, and custom plumb the oil, inlet, exhaust (and water?) if you get a kit, even if its a partial kit, a lot of the had work is done for you.

The 2H is weak and will not handle a turbo for long.

LudaCris

ludacris wrote:The 2H is weak and will not handle a turbo for long.

LudaCris

there are plenty of turboed 2H engines out there with hundreds of thousands of km reliable service.

what makes them weak?

ludacris wrote:The 2H is weak and will not handle a turbo for long.

LudaCris

What a load of crap

That's ludicrous

COUbull5hitGH

ok then fair enough, im figuring that your correct and the kit is easyer than making it myself, i know my 2h has 330 on the clock which is getting up there, and would most likly need a rebuild, depending on how hard the 330k have been, i think maybe the 4 - 6 grand for finding a 12ht might be a better motor to spend the cash on???? or the v8 diesel conversion...

ah well, maybe i should stop complaining and just see how it goes off road to begin with.... (i have only done say 70 ks in it since i bought it) but i used to own a 60 with a 12ht so ive basically gone backwards in motors, and the 2h feels like a snail.

for a 2h diesel i would spend the money rebuildin the motor and injector pump and buy a denco or similar turbo kit. i remember before i stripped down my 47 it went alright it wasnt a speed demon but what 4wd is. striped it down and rebuit it with new liners pistons and general things you would do on a rebuild put the turbo on and now it goes like a screamer.

Don't waste your money on a v8 diesel swap, you could pretty much buy a turbo 80 series for the same cost. Either put a decent turbo kit on the 2H or do a 12HT swap. If the 2H needs a build, I reckon you're better off putting the money towards a 12HT, its a much better motor.

Wambat wrote:hey fellas,

how do you correctly size a turbo for a motor, i have the opportunity to get a t03(vl turbo) for next to nothing, just requiring a rebuild, i figure they are on a 3 ltr petrol, that revs to 5 - 6 grand, if you put it on a 4ltr diesel, it would hopefully spool up buy around 1200?? or as the 2h only spinns to about 3500, it would come in at more around 2g, and not be useable??

am just curious, as we all know the 2h is a slouch, and some day some go would be nice, so as that is a cheeper option i may look into it, either that or putting in a 12ht, or a v8 diesel.

hope some one can point me in the right direction.

Al

first off you'd work out the Air Flow rate that is required for the amount of HP you want to produce from the motor.

once that is worked out you then would work out what the manifold pressure will be then you'd use a compressor map to what out what the best turbo will be.

These are compressor maps for a Garrett T03 turbo over the different trims.

http://web.inter.nl.net/users/turbo-tea ... mpress.htm

You need to look at the different maps to see what turbo size/trim will work best as you don't want to over boost the turbo as it could melt then break and go through your motor but also you don't want to buy a turbo that's too large for the motor.

I've got an aftermarket turbo setup on my 2H in 75 series which I think runs an Air Research turbo of some description. If its not raining here tomorrow and I remember I will try to work out the ar etc for you.

Fair enough. I know of a couple to go bang even rebuilt ones. Just dont boost over 7. Best to see how the standard one goes or put your money towards a new factory turboed motor. HEAPS MORE GRUNT.

LudaCris

chunks wrote:Don't waste your money on a v8 diesel swap, you could pretty much buy a turbo 80 series for the same cost.

x eleventy.. v8 diesel is round 20k

bogged wrote:

chunks wrote:Don't waste your money on a v8 diesel swap, you could pretty much buy a turbo 80 series for the same cost.

x eleventy.. v8 diesel is round 20k

Theres a wreckers at archerfield that had them for $10kea second hand.

20m away they had second hand LS1 for 3k.

I know which one i would buy lol.

TURBOING a 2H is a great idea and can be done cheap if you do it yourself.

Pass on the VL turbo and paying to get it rebuilt. Get one that matches properly or more closely of e-bay or turbo shop. Flip the existing exhaust manifold, a couple of silicon bends and fittings from super cheap and get an exhaust shop to weld you up a bracket between the turbo and the manifold. Get them to do up the engine pipe as well (mandrel bent if possible) and the sump. You can buy kits for around the 2k includ turbo and with everything you need or as above for about $500 plus turbo.

The most important part is to have it tuned by a pro on a dyno if you want it to last.

Huge improvement over standard. Depends how you drive but never had prob with 2H turbo in any of mine.

let us know how you go.

if u do go ahead i would steer clear of the denco kits. we fitted one to a 2h in a 75 series and it is pretty laggy. eg: to keep it on boost when beach driving you have to keep the revs up, in turn causing all sorts of overheating issues. a smaller more responsive turbo would be better, perhaps a stg gu tb42 turbo.

but, IMO i wouldnt bother doing it as its was stil pretty shit even when on boost.

Mine gets to about 3/4's on the gauge when in soft sand or on a hot day on the highway doing 120kmh. Go back to 100kmh and it goes to about 1/4 on the gauge. Had to pull over and let it cool down about 3 times in three years.

Make sure you retain the fan shroud, and only run a toyota genuine fan set up hub etc!!!!

I don't run a thermostat tho which might be the cause. Mike Vine took it out and told me never to put one back in. Can't say I was that confident at the time but never had a problem, and he does lay claim to turboing over 1000 2H's in his life so he knows more than me/

i have thought about going petrol v8, as its a bush truck only, but fuel consumption is the thing that i am thinking about, turbo diesel would be miles mroe economical. my old 12ht in my 60 used to do 10l to 100 km no matter how i drove it.

SCANAS wrote:... Flip the existing exhaust manifold, a couple of silicon bends and fittings from super cheap and get an exhaust shop to weld you up a bracket between the turbo and the manifold. Get them to do up the engine pipe as well (mandrel bent if possible) and the sump.

if you have the skillz to do a manifold flip custom job you are probably capable of building your own adaptor - you only need to cut out one flange to match your turbo, you can use the triangular flange off the engine pipe for the other end. beware that this kind of setup on a 60 may require a body lift to clear the bonnet (or hack a hole in the bonnet and cover it up with a scoop).

there is absolutely no need to modify the sump for a 2H turbo conversion, you can drain the turbo into one of the side covers. 8 bolts and easy access especially once you have the manifold removed.

The most important part is to have it tuned by a pro on a dyno if you want it to last.

Id say that would have to be about the least important part. for the cost of a couple hours dyno time you can buy boost and pyro gauges and install them, then you have the effect of a permanently installed dyno room. adjust the fuel screw counterclockwise for more fuel, start with about half a turn and find your favourite third gear, full throttle hill on a warm day. you're looking for a steady 650C before the turbo, with no black smoke on full boost and full throttle. you're lookig for around 8 - 9psi boost without intercooling, and up to 13 with a decent intercooler.

there is only one screw to adjust and only two data you need to take any notice of (3 if you include smoke) so time on a dyno is a waste - its not like tuning a petrol efi setup where there are many parameters that can be fiddled with to obtain optimum tune.

i get about 13 to the 100 with 35s.
btw mine runs 10psi
Might be a good idea to do a compression test before you spend the money good luck

i am a fitter and turner buy trade, so matching a flange isn't be out of my reach, and i work with a fella that did his apprentice ship as a sheety with tenix.

so all pipe work we should be able to work out between us.

also on the swapping a petrol v8 instead of staying with the 2h or a diesel v8, would going a ls1/ls2 or a 304 stroked to 355/383 be better?? i know the ls1 is a pretty good motor, but the lines i am thinking about ie weight(if there is much difference) ie which one is going to lower my center of gravity, the iron 304, or the alloy ls1?? or is the weight difference not enough to worry, are they heavier than the 2h or lighter?

also i think i would go for the bolt in 12ht over spending the money on the 2h, was more thinking about turboing the 2h if the t3 suited it.

wish the 75 came with the 12ht as a factory option, would be as simple as just ringing vic roads and telling them and wouldn't require an engineers report!!!!

if you got 12ht for the right money you would get a nice, smooth economical motor that by the sound of things you could do yourself, put a 3" exhaust and run around 12psi it would haul a ss.

No substitute for a V8 tho!!! Personally for the price of a LS1 front cut I wouldn't bother with the older stuff or stroker engines.

if you got 12ht for the right money you would get a nice, smooth economical motor that by the sound of things you could do yourself, put a 3" exhaust and run around 12psi it would haul a ss.

No substitute for a V8 tho!!! Personally for the price of a LS1 front cut I wouldn't bother with the older stuff or stroker engines.

SCANAS wrote:I don't run a thermostat tho which might be the cause. Mike Vine took it out and told me never to put one back in. Can't say I was that confident at the time but never had a problem, and he does lay claim to turboing over 1000 2H's in his life so he knows more than me/

I don't think running without a thermostat is a good idea, the coolant can circulate too quickly through the radiator. If anything cut the guts out of thermostat but leave the rest of it in there.

Yeah it was a worry at first, previous owner spent 5k on motor and pump and I spent 5k on turbo, injectors, exhuast so it freaked me out to run without one and risk 10k worth of gear when a thermostat works so well. Hasn't been an issue, my first 60 2H turbo ran a thermostat and it was fine as well... All I can say is, as expected opertating temp range is wider.

I know Mike Vine was dead against it so I just did what he told me at the time. 4 hard years and a hard 100,000ks later I am more than happy

well got a call from the mech today, as its getting its roadworthy so i can get it registered and go wheeling.

asl is good didnt need much which is good, but they are thinking the diesel pump may be on it way out. so i will have to be thinking about the motor options sooner than i thought i would.

Al

Wambat wrote:...they are thinking the diesel pump may be on it way out. ...

what symptoms does it have? those inline pumps can last a very very long time.

chunks wrote:

SCANAS wrote:I don't run a thermostat tho which might be the cause. Mike Vine took it out and told me never to put one back in. Can't say I was that confident at the time but never had a problem, and he does lay claim to turboing over 1000 2H's in his life so he knows more than me/

I don't think running without a thermostat is a good idea, the coolant can circulate too quickly through the radiator. If anything cut the guts out of thermostat but leave the rest of it in there.

Running without a thermostat is never a good idea. How is your engine supposed to keep a stable operating temp without one?

Screams "hack job" to me. If it heats or overheats then there's a problem to be solved.

it was just the apprentice who rang today, and my mech has another qualifyed bloke running his shop for this and next week, so when he gets back i will ask him, what he thinks, and then they will give me symptoms, i just took the advice on board today, and thought i would ask the fella when he gets back to oz.

what symptoms are there normaly, so that i know when i am driving it too.