Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I'm in the proces of designing & Building the front 4 link in my Hilux.
I'm trying to Triangulate it as much as possible so I can avoid having to run a panhard rod.
My problem is to get the ideal angles and lengths I want,
I'm going to have to put a bend in the verticle plane of the upper arms to clear the bell housing.

It'll look something like this

Can anybody see this being an issue ?

Yeah.. there is a crack in ya bend, could be a weak spot



On a serious note many people have done it over the years and only ever heard of people bending when they dont use a heavy wall tube

use solid 4140 and it should be ok.

Full hydro steering?

I was planning to use 5mm wall 25nb (schedule 80) for the uppers, use a large radius die (about 6 inches) and then stress relieve the bend

The lowers are going to be made from forged tube steel steering links out of a Bus

zookimal wrote:Full hydro steering?

x2, you'd have to if were to be drivable.

Slunnie wrote:

zookimal wrote:Full hydro steering?

x2, you'd have to if were to be drivable.

I believe you are not 100% correct.
It should be possible to build an asymmetric triangulated 4-link that mimics the arc of the drag link, which would relieve any bump-steer.

Whether this would be possible due to link mounting restrictions or practical (why not just use a panhard if the axle is going to move in the same arc anyway?) is another issue though.

Luke.

zookimal wrote:Full hydro steering?

No, just a slightly modified power steer setup

lukethedork wrote: I believe you are not 100% correct.
It should be possible to build an asymmetric triangulated 4-link that mimics the arc of the drag link, which would relieve any bump-steer.

Whether this would be possible due to link mounting restrictions or practical (why not just use a panhard if the axle is going to move in the same arc anyway?) is another issue though.

Luke.

I'm hoping it'll have minimal transverse movement (flex steer), I built a model of it a while ago using rod ends mainly in an exercise to see which setups would actually depend on compression of a Rubber bush rather than the deflection of it,
the model seemed to work, so will have to suck it and see, for now I'm going to leave the spring mounts in place, so if i totally stuff it up I can put it back to how it was

lukethedork wrote:

Slunnie wrote:

zookimal wrote:Full hydro steering?

x2, you'd have to if were to be drivable.

I believe you are not 100% correct.
It should be possible to build an asymmetric triangulated 4-link that mimics the arc of the drag link, which would relieve any bump-steer.

Whether this would be possible due to link mounting restrictions or practical (why not just use a panhard if the axle is going to move in the same arc anyway?) is another issue though.

Luke.

Probably only 99% I'm not sure how you would do this geometry in practise as the motor would be in the way along with every other bit, but wouldn't that then destroy the big advantage of 4-link having minimal or no bump/flex steer etc.

Breaker Brother, have you modelled the relationship between the front swivel hub and your steering box as it bumps and articulates?

I havn't done that, no although if it doesn't work that well, I have another idea using a bell crank system

I just don't like Panhard rod setups, especially in a vehicle like mine with a fair range of suspension movement. If I could devise a Watt's Linkage that would fit and allow full articualtion I'd go with that, but there just isn't the space.

As for the three link, I've driven a few rigs on the road with them, they all seem to feel unpredictable under brakes, this Lux of mine has to do a lot of highway running and I'd like it to have some manners.

Having said all that, there's always a compromise, Ive yet to see something that I'd be happy with so I'll try something I havn't seen yet on a Lux.

My main concern and the reason for my first post was my concern about having to bend the upper arms. if they don't prove up to the task, but my idea works I'll get em laser cut out of solid plate similar to what Lukey has on his

Breaker Brother wrote:I havn't done that, no although if it doesn't work that well, I have another idea using a bell crank system

I just don't like Panhard rod setups, especially in a vehicle like mine with a fair range of suspension movement. If I could devise a Watt's Linkage that would fit and allow full articualtion I'd go with that, but there just isn't the space.

As for the three link, I've driven a few rigs on the road with them, they all seem to feel unpredictable under brakes, this Lux of mine has to do a lot of highway running and I'd like it to have some manners.

Having said all that, there's always a compromise, Ive yet to see something that I'd be happy with so I'll try something I havn't seen yet on a Lux.

My main concern and the reason for my first post was my concern about having to bend the upper arms. if they don't prove up to the task, but my idea works I'll get em laser cut out of solid plate similar to what Lukey has on his

Curious - what's your beef with the panhard? Properly setup is should have little effect on your wheel travel.
Sure it might be nice to have one less linkage - but IMHO a 4 link without a panhard is going tp be way less predictable than a 3 link that you dislike.
A Watts link if a nice pipe dream - but way more complicated to even bother considering (IMHO).
I don't see the beds being an issue at all - provided sufficent material is used - but I;d be more "concerned" on getting the rest of the 4link to work (ie with no panhard - which I think is simple, easy an effectiive - ie no brainer ).

The other option may be a 5 link which would be more stable under brakes??? I just think that running a steering box without a panhard is just asking for shocking drivability. Even leaf sprung vehicles with flat drag links aren;t that flash.