Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Guys,

am looking at fitting a suspension upgrade to my swb 94 zook.

Currently i am looking at two kits. The EFS, an the ironman kits.

Which would you recommend?
And what size kit would you recommend?

Most are 2" kits?

Are they easy enough to install, and are there any tips or tricks when installing them.

Also how much would you expect to pay?

What load rating springs also? Normally carry back full of swags and rifles.

hi mate
a good friend of mine bought the ironman kit and honestly I belive it is the nastiest riding suspension Ive ever experienced in a zook.
efs I've no idea.
Ive got oldman emu and it seems nice and supple
I had rancho it was ok but the ome seems better
hope that helps

I have EFS in mine, it's yrs old and still rides like there's railroad sleepers, instead of springs. And thats on a lwb, and it never got rid of the suzuki lean. And flex is something you read about

Hey bud,
I sell both kits and they're in different leagues. Both will do what you want, lift the vehicle 2 inches.
EFS 3yr 100,000km warranty, nationwide support, top quality with proven history.
IRONMAN... is cheaper for a reason!
Just be sure to get the right spring rate or remove leaves where neccesary so they ride good .... This is why we have suspension specialists... so you don't end up with rail road sleepers instead of springs!

Have PM'd prices so as not to get into one of those ugly outers pricewars.

Cheers Dan

On the bright Side, it goes around corners like a rat on rails.

efs springs....not bad.....shocks freaking horrible.

ironman......not worth its weight in scrap.

out of all your options i would only get efs springs and combine them with a real shock.

joeblow wrote:efs springs....not bad.....shocks freaking horrible.

ironman......not worth its weight in scrap.

out of all your options i would only get efs springs and combine them with a real shock.

Hey Joe how are the shocks freaking horrible compared to a something that you like? I'm looking at new shock options at the moment.

boner59 wrote:I have EFS in mine, it's yrs old and still rides like there's railroad sleepers, instead of springs. And thats on a lwb, and it never got rid of the suzuki lean. And flex is something you read about

Same I have a SWB and had to reset the relatively new EFS springs to correct it. They did it under warranty for me free of charge. It helped that the guys who sold me the kit are customers where I work.

Eff

In W.A efs just re-labels Westralia Springs and does the same with there shocks which are actually KYB brand. I dont know if this is the same over east, but here they are the only difference is the warranty.

Ooo and the price

dank wrote:

joeblow wrote:efs springs....not bad.....shocks freaking horrible.

ironman......not worth its weight in scrap.

out of all your options i would only get efs springs and combine them with a real shock.

Hey Joe how are the shocks freaking horrible compared to a something that you like? I'm looking at new shock options at the moment.

combine efs springs with a shock that has been valved correctly and the ride is pretty good. but thier shocks are not. and also, look at the level of build quality they have. there might be a reason they paint the shocks black.

KYB shocks i found are good for the $$

emu dakar springs arent that dear since they moved production off shore several years ago, i initially went with kins springs, regretted it, put in 40mm lift ones with shocks and it ended up costing me less than $700 with shocks from memory. got the heavier duty ones and it they are firm yet soft, dont know if they do a 2" option but why muck around get you self a 3"body lift and you still end up with the 4"

joeblow wrote:efs springs....not bad.....shocks freaking horrible.
out of all your options i would only get efs springs and combine them with a real shock.

That's an extremely non descriptive, useless, point lacking comment that appears to be an un-educated stab at a product..

Personally i think for ride quality from a bolt on replacement shockabsorber you can't go past Ride pro.. Koni second.. but EFS are up there.

Dan

opps ruffy now you dun it! you gunna make joe mad.

I think i will go OME. Local ARB seems to think so too.
I can go 2" no troubles, maybe extended brake lines. (not hard)

Should be a good lil rig after that..

andy1517 wrote:I think i will go OME. Local ARB seems to think so too.

well i am glad they gave you an unbiased professional opinion

Yeah good point ruffy, opinions in general don't mean shit.

let back it up with technical info, afterall this is a tech thread.

It seems it is true that most aftermarket springs are built to handle loads rather that turn our vehicles into flex kings. After the inital bedding in and run time period let say 500km, you could pretty much make a sound judgement on what the springs are going to be like for most of its life.

I'm guessing half of us here wouldn't be able to tell the difference between an Ironman, EFS, Koni, OME, Rancho RS5000 etc etc etc shock made for a sierra. The only real way to tell would be to line up one vehicle on a set track and swap them in and record the "seat of pants" difference. You could also test extension pressure with something crude like a linear scale and I'm sure compression pressure could be measured as well. This would be the only real way to get some solid results.

unless you choose an adjustable shock ala Rancho 9000, Koni, Tough Dog, Boss, you are just going to have to be happy with whatever non adjustable shock you get.

I bought my swb zook hardtop with ome springs and commodore rear shocks, hilux fronts from supercheap. It has a lean on the drivers side but it flexes pretty well (swaybars taken out) and rides alot better then efs springs.

I know this because a mate has a swb 94 soft top he bought efs springs and same shocks as me, his car is so bloody bouncy and stiff riding that you need a neck brace for rough tracks, in future he is going to buy ome springs because they are softer riding.

Other people might disagree on what i have said but thats just what we have found

60mad I know your mate. I also know for a fact that his suspension is very new. You've got a hardtop IIRC and your mate is a soft top so marginally different weights as well.

Give it another few hundred km then pull the load leaves out of the front and rear. Drive it and then see how it goes. If need be pull out another spring like the 3rd one down from the top and see how it rides...

All in all a good comparison though, two similar vehicles with different suspension setups and noticable ride differences.

60mad I know your mate. I also know for a fact that his suspension is very new. You've got a hardtop IIRC and your mate is a soft top so marginally different weights as well.

Give it another few hundred km then pull the load leaves out of the front and rear. Drive it and then see how it goes. If need be pull out another spring like the 3rd one down from the top and see how it rides...

All in all a good comparison though, two similar vehicles with different suspension setups and noticable ride differences.

I know mine being a hardtop vs softy would have a small weight difference and being fairly new would make some difference but even after taking load leaves out it still doesn't have much give in the ride, im not saying efs are shit just that they seem to be generally stiffer then ome.

mines a wt softie and it didnt need any leafs taking out, i am not saying that setting uup ones suspension is not feasible, but my opinion is to have a solid off the shelf solution is worth th extra fews $$$

(never been one to believe $$$ = better either)

ruffy do you have a zook?

Ruffy wrote:

joeblow wrote:efs springs....not bad.....shocks freaking horrible.
out of all your options i would only get efs springs and combine them with a real shock.

That's an extremely non descriptive, useless, point lacking comment that appears to be an un-educated stab at a product..

Personally i think for ride quality from a bolt on replacement shockabsorber you can't go past Ride pro.. Koni second.. but EFS are up there.

Dan

ok...i will give you my uneducated experiance with this product, and you being in the know might be able to answer a question for me.

one thing i have noticed when fitting efs systems on sierra's is that the rear will come up an average of 75-100mm from standard. pretty high for a '2inch' system. but they do compensate for this by having one of the longest main leaves on the market which is a good thing ( but the load required to get them to sit at 2 inch would place the vehicle over gvm). other good points is that they are roll-tapered and diamond cut, things not all leaf springs have.

next we come to those lovely shocks. now, two things could happen. a leaf spring that sits at 75-100mm taller will require a shock that is quite long as it sould have about 50mm (average, but not gospel) of drop still in it when the vehicle is sitting on level ground. if this is the case then the efs shocks would actually bottom out before the diff came anywhere near the rear bumpstop (not a good thing). the second is to make the shocks suit the parameters of the original bumpstop the shocks would be far too short to use with said 75-100mm springs which would basically over-extend the shock in most cases and cause early failure (once again not a good thing).
i have not gone into valving as i have no good things to say about the valving.
the overall efs range for other vehicles i cannot comment on, all i have is my experiances on sierra's.

i know the answer to the above but would like your educated opinion on this problem ruffy.

and i agree nicbeer.......KYB's are one of the best shocks i have come across.

to be fair Joe, that's almost exactly the same situation for a sierra with HD OME springs- no droop.

PS I'd never run anything except OME, but Joe, you haven't done anything to answer the relevant questions about the quality of EFS shocks. That's a bit silly when you have stated your opinion on them three times, but won't justify it.

Steve.

so i should go under the house, grab an efs shock cut it up and explain?
i don't like the way they ride (thats my opinion), there are better shocks (as nicbeer pointed out for one). i have combined efs springs with various other shocks and improvements were very good.
the efs shock that comes with the springs are stated to be 'bolt on', so one would not expect any problems right?. the above statement is something that concerned me before even installing said shocks.

what are your opinions (and/ or experiances) on the 'bolt on efs' system steve?

Joe, You've somewhat answered your issues with the springs, how ever i'm still curious as to finding out what the reasons for this are. EFS put a lot of money into R&D and sell a lot of suspension. I'msure if there suzuki springs always did what you sat there'd be remedial action in place as it's not to the usual testimont of the companies product.
As for the shocks?? What is wrong? the valving? in what way.. too soft, too stiff, high velocity dampening, low velocity damping? compression dampening, rebound???? I would like some more info or reasoning?
Dan

I have no experience of the EFS system, but I have lots of experience with the OME system and I could easily apply you comments on the EFS system to OME - That's not a reflection of the OME system, it's a reflection of the design of the sierra suspension.

I don't believe that an OME system is a "bolt on" if you want the best out of it. It's not a bad compromise, but the real issue with the sierra is that it's wheelbase and load as a % of tare weight, along with short suspension travel, makes it pretty much impossible to build a "bolt on" suspension that will work properly for most people, which is why I always recommend buying HD OME springs and pulling leaves until it works for the individual application. However, that's not a commercially sensible solution.

However, other than saying you "don't like" the EFS shocks that's fine, if it's opinion, it's opinion - but without any real data (maybe indeed by cutting a shock up) then there's nothing more to it than opinion.

I'm not having a go Joe, but saying "I don't like them" and "They are crap" over and over isn't improving anyones understanding of the problems with EFS. If they are valid problems and you're the only guy saying it, you'll have to do more to prove it.

Steve.

im also looking at lifting my sierra.
iv decided on ome springs and shocks.
i dont carry any loads etc.
so what springs would be best light or medium?
im not interested in having to remove springs from pack once fitted to car.
want as much flex as possible from a bolt on kit.
and ride qaulity is important as its my daily ride.
also how much better will it ride over standard with ome suspension fitted?
as my back is killin me with the stock suspension still fitted. cheers.

Gwagensteve wrote:I, which is why I always recommend buying HD OME springs and pulling leaves until it works for the individual application. However, that's not a commercially sensible solution.

But that's just it.. That is a commercially sensible solution.. This is why we have suspension experts.. so that a generic kit can be installed in a manner to suit the customers requirements..

It's not a suzuki specific thing.. there's nothing wrong with removing load bearing leaves from a spring pack to suit the customers comfort requirement in any application as long as you have an understanding of there load carrying requirements.

For fit at home applications, it's not the products fault that the fitter doesn't understand the product!

Dan