Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Looking at Hydraulic winches. i dont need the fastest winch, just something that will pull all day.

noticed warn do a fair few. and mile marker. but when comparing the 2, milemarker appear to have a motor up to 3x bigger than warn. how is that possible?

anyone else make winches worth looking into? aimig for 12000lb, cant find a runva that big.

not too concerned on price at this stage. the warn's im looking at seem to be around US$1500 for just the winch/drum only!!!! No cable, control,hoses etc. seem very steep

cheers

PAUL

Ox?

Here's a link, http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic164293.php , with some shots of my winch setup, and heaps of info.

If you are putting it on a partol you will only need a 10000lb winch, believe me hydraulic winches are awesomely powerful, especially if you up the psi on the pump.

The reason the mile marker has a bigger motor is the the reduction on the gearbox is only 6:1, instead of 30-40:1. One advantage with the mile marker is that they are two speed with the high speed being 1:1.

chimpboy wrote:Ox?

Ox hyd winch is a 12000 lb Milemarker with a TJM Ox sticker.

AFAIK TJM change the rating to 10500 because most power steering pumps here have lower pressure than what the Milemarker is rated for.

Torque (which determines winch line pull) produced at the hyd motor depends upon the hyd motor displacement and the hyd system pressure.

Motor speed (winch line speed) depends upon the hyd motor displacement and the hyd fluid flow rate.

The valves on the hyd motor of Milemarker/Ox winches are not suitable for flow rates much more than most power steering pumps. They need to be replaced with more suitable valves (and an overcentre valve) if used with a larger pump.

Generally it is possible to increase the setting of the pressure relief valve in power steering pumps to increase line pull if required. But be aware that fluid temp will increase if the winch needs to pull at the higher pressure for a significant time.

i too am going to go down this route, the only thing is i work in a hydraulic work shop, and have the guys that can help me set up a bullet proof system, however, if i were you i would look at running a pump off your own motor, or a pto drive pump like the tilt trays work.

i am thinking (as im not looking at entering a comp) of using an auxiliary petrol motor (little petrol power pack similar to a lawn mower motor) but the rest of the system will be made to deal with higher flow than what your power steering pump can out put.

i would highly recommend not using your power steering pump.

my ute weighs in at 3t empty, when loaded for touring it will be 4t. i would like the peace of mind of 5.5t pulling power as apposed to 4.5t.

at this stage i will run off the power steering, like i siad, i dont need speed. i may put a cooler on the fluid if need be, but i dont care how slow it is, so long as it keeps going.

keep the info/recommendations coming

PAUL

narnturbogq wrote:Here's a link, http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic164293.php , with some shots of my winch setup, and heaps of info.

If you are putting it on a partol you will only need a 10000lb winch, believe me hydraulic winches are awesomely powerful, especially if you up the psi on the pump.

have been checking out that thread. is there someone who can up the power steering pump on a gu? are there gains to be made?

reason i dont want to run a dedicated pump just yet is i may be doing an engine conversion down the track and would want a pump to bolt onto it

Theres not a lot that can be done with the gu powersteer pump to increase either flow or pressure.
At the moment im using a modified saginaw pump as its quite easy to up the pressure on them.
As stated in the thread to get decent speed out of the winch, there is really only one option and the is to run a seperate pump.
Can you use the pto on the gearbox, if you have one?

narnturbogq wrote:Theres not a lot that can be done with the gu powersteer pump to increase either flow or pressure.
At the moment im using a modified saginaw pump as its quite easy to up the pressure on them.
As stated in the thread to get decent speed out of the winch, there is really only one option and the is to run a seperate pump.
Can you use the pto on the gearbox, if you have one?

sorry, but the nissan pump is capable of the same pressure and within 2% of the flow of a saginaw. You just need to know how to do it properly!

1MadEngineer wrote:

narnturbogq wrote:Theres not a lot that can be done with the gu powersteer pump to increase either flow or pressure.
At the moment im using a modified saginaw pump as its quite easy to up the pressure on them.
As stated in the thread to get decent speed out of the winch, there is really only one option and the is to run a seperate pump.
Can you use the pto on the gearbox, if you have one?

sorry, but the nissan pump is capable of the same pressure and within 2% of the flow of a saginaw. You just need to know how to do it properly!

whats involved? and cost? is it something i can get done "off the shelf" type thing?

is the gu capable of runing a pto or is there too much work involved to get it to run one? as that would be best, as running it off your motor would equire some form of clutch, which could possibly slip,

how much flow does a power steering pump produce? i cant see it being all that much, but if you arent that worryed about speed it wont matter as much, but the size of the cooler you would require to get it working well and so that you could winch hard for a long time would be quite big, as you would need a fair volume of fluid in the cooler and alot of air to go over the cooler, unless you went with some form of water to oil cooler???

from what i can tell hydraulic winches are quite expensive to set up, and thats with me pricing things up at my cost. but i will still go for it as i know exactly what i can and cant do and exactly how to fix the bits if anything should ever go wrong.

I'm getting an OX hyd winch off a mate and i'm wondering if the brake is in the drum like a low mount or a disc setup on the end a milemaker.

As for the powersteering pump, i've had mine done by a mate in his shop so i could drive through my locker and it works fairly well. just make sure you give it to some with experience as it can be stuffed very quickly if they try to go too far.

cheers smitty

The TJM ox / Milemarker winches dont have a brake. They rely on a crude flow control in the control valves to hold the winch. There is some info regarding this in the above link.

Wambat wrote:is the gu capable of runing a pto or is there too much work involved to get it to run one? as that would be best, as running it off your motor would equire some form of clutch, which could possibly slip,

GQ gearbox has a PTO mounting point on it.

Some random early GU Utes also had the PTO mounting point, but general GU boxes don't.

You need to swap the shifter on the GQ box if you want it to fit into the GU, don't know how easy this is.

- David.

narnturbogq wrote:The TJM ox / Milemarker winches dont have a brake. They rely on a crude flow control in the control valves to hold the winch. There is some info regarding this in the above link.

its called a counterbalance ( or load holding valve) and is the industry standard and approved for the designed use throughout the world.

vanbox wrote:

1MadEngineer wrote:

narnturbogq wrote:Theres not a lot that can be done with the gu powersteer pump to increase either flow or pressure.
At the moment im using a modified saginaw pump as its quite easy to up the pressure on them.
As stated in the thread to get decent speed out of the winch, there is really only one option and the is to run a seperate pump.
Can you use the pto on the gearbox, if you have one?

sorry, but the nissan pump is capable of the same pressure and within 2% of the flow of a saginaw. You just need to know how to do it properly!

whats involved? and cost? is it something i can get done "off the shelf" type thing?

pm me if and when you get a setup, as your fairly local i may be able to set the pressures and flow for you.

Milemarker now make an 18000lb hydraulic winch.

Milemarker winches are capable of running constantly at 3000psi - I checked this with their technical manager in USA.

Milemarker use two different valves on their winches. The integrated valve is rated at 3.5USGPM. The remote valve is rated at 7.5USGPM.

I suspect the rating though are 'generous' as I am not getting the expected performance, ie line speed, out of my winch, supposedly running at 8USGPM, and am generating a lot of heat in the fluid. The hydraulic valves have very small ports also and suspect this is one of the larger problems.

With the benefit of hindsight, I would use a different valve. I am looking to increase the system pressure via a relief valve spring change on the pump, and then replace the valve to get greater flow.

PBBIZ2 wrote:Milemarker winches are capable of running constantly at 3000psi - I checked this with their technical manager in USA.

I suspect the rating though are 'generous' as I am not getting the expected performance, ie line speed, out of my winch, supposedly running at 8USGPM, and am generating a lot of heat in the fluid.

be carefull with this as the majority of LSHT (geroller/gerotor) motors are not very reliable above 2500psi. Even running a case drain they are prone to blowing out the front shaft seal.

its called a counterbalance ( or load holding valve) and is the industry standard and approved for the designed use throughout the world.

Milemarker dont supply a counterbalance with their winches, there is a flow restricting nut in the flow control valve housing, which floats back and forward in the housing to hold the flow. Its a low cost(crude)way of doing the job that the counterbalance does.

I deleted this arangment from my winch setup, as there is no way of holding the winch if a hose blows, with the Milemarker system. This is a real issue when the vehicle is on the winch on a steep slope, as there is nothing to stop the vehicle from running backwards.

the mile marker winch, just the drum and motor, where would you go about sourcing one of them??

as yet i havent looked to far into any components yet, i had only thought about the one winch - a breveni raptor, is use on tow trucks, although i am not sure if they would suit the aplication, so to see some other types of drum and motor arrangements would be good.

Ive found some links with pics of the flow restricter that Milemarker use in place of a dedicated counterbalance.

These two links have pics of the standard directional valves:
http://www.idiventure.com/writing/Winch ... nstall.htm
http://www.mywinch.com/help/MileMarker1 ... lation.htm

This link has a pic of the higher flow, remote directional valve:
http://www.off-road.com/trucks4x4/artic ... ?id=198526

The restricter is a small hex shaped nut with a small hole and slot in it.

Just stumbled across this http://www.milemarker.com/pdf_downloads/18k_specs.pdf
Milemarker have released a new winch, the 18k, and this one has a built in disc brake.