Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Based on the other poll about V8 engines for 4x4's, it seems like there is a fair bit of interest for the deisel V8's. Can somone shed some light on what engine they would pick and why?

6.6L Duramax Diesel. Easy to get imported from states, bucketloads of torque, easily tuned to get more (plenty of kit available from US) and if you were considering a BB before you shouldn't have an issue with fitting Duramax (or not). These engines were designed in partnership with Isuzu I believe so they cant be too bad.

The Duramax is a modern diesel with all the electronics included. It produces a heap of power (crazy amount of power) and is very tunable. But loaded with electronics. Also really needs to have the Allison auto kept on it.

The 6.2/6.5 BB is an old style (esp with full mechanical pump) option. Won't product the same power or have the same economy as the Duramax, but doesn't have the electronics.

Price wise I would expect the Duramax to be more expensive, but I doubt by much.

BB is a good oil burner and is known to have crank issues.

What do you want?

- David.

stuee wrote:6.6L Duramax Diesel. Easy to get imported from states, bucketloads of torque, easily tuned to get more (plenty of kit available from US) and if you were considering a BB before you shouldn't have an issue with fitting Duramax (or not). These engines were designed in partnership with Isuzu I believe so they cant be too bad.

+1, have seen the chev trucks leave work pulling a 4.5t 30ft 5th wheel van behind them and they just haul up the hill unlike the F trucks and Rams which seem to struggle a bit.

One of these in a patrol or cruiser would be awesome for torque, so long as they aren't to heavy

cheers stuee, the BB is still on the crate at the moment, looks like its going interstate. I've been speaking to a guy who wants to put it into his show car, therefore he'll get priority.

This now brings me back to choosing an engine for the 4x4. I'm interested in the diesels, however I don't know engough about them. So far everyone I've spoken to has canned them saying they were too big, heavy and overated, I'd be better off with a LS small block?

I'll do some more homwework on the 6.6l Duramax.

David (dirty),

I want to power up the GQ that we are building up. I'm not happy with just turbo charging the standard 4.2 litre diesel; been there done that.

It time for change, either find a bigger, badder diesel engine on steriods or move onto a natually aspirated straight gas setup.

Motor at top of page.

These people are pricey as but it gives you an indication of the max you can expect to pay. I did see it as low as $11k for just the motor but as mentioned before you really want the Allison auto too.

try heathGU off this board he has the duramax in his gu.... runs down the drag strip, there is a build up it on here with dyno figures and quater mile run sheets

enginefactory wrote:David (dirty),

I want to power up the GQ that we are building up. I'm not happy with just turbo charging the standard 4.2 litre diesel; been there done that.

It time for change, either find a bigger, badder diesel engine on steriods or move onto a natually aspirated straight gas setup.

If you want Bad-ass go the Duramax. Get a half-cut so you have all the computers and loom with auto. The GM trucks also have a huge amount of vehicle/engine info available through the dash, so incorporate that into the GQ as well. I think Heath also did the whole dash thing, so he might be able to shed some more specific light on the matter. There is a ton of aftermarket stuff for these engines from the US and they push out well over 1,000hp if you want it.

The 6.5 BB is just a way easier conversion just give Marks 4WD a call, but would get a later model motor, replace the crank, rods and pistons with forged items and boost up into the low 20's psi.

- David.

I have just bought a 60 with the 6.5 V8 in it.
I would rather have this anyday over my 80 with 1hz and 16psi DTS T/I setup.
Way more power down low, and uses a fair bit less fuel. My only bitch is being a v8, anna bligh is going to really hurt me when rego is needed redoing.

On road, and off, the V8 is just so much usable than the 1hz it just can't compare.
I would like to Turbo the engine at some stage, but in reality, It realy dosn't need it.

However if $$$ is not a issue, the duramax does sound so much better

I've fallen in love with the toyo 4.5L V8 in the cruisers after driving an unladen 79 series around for a bit....

Smoke tyres in first, Change to second, still get massive spin, Chirp into 3rd and by that stage your smiling like a loon!

Go the duramax. Yes they are expensive, but work out how much you would need to spend on an LS motor to get the same HP, and you still wouldn't get close to the same torque or economy.

Yes the electrics are very complex on these motors, But saying that they are all very good quality connectors and sealed control units, So water should not worry it one bit.

Heathgu was making adapters for the allison to nissan transfer so contact him to see if still is doing them.

If you need assistance with getting it wired up, I have done a couple of these now.

Dirty wrote:The Duramax is a modern diesel with all the electronics included. It produces a heap of power (crazy amount of power) and is very tunable. But loaded with electronics. Also really needs to have the Allison auto kept on it.

The 6.2/6.5 BB is an old style (esp with full mechanical pump) option. Won't product the same power or have the same economy as the Duramax, but doesn't have the electronics.

Price wise I would expect the Duramax to be more expensive, but I doubt by much.

BB is a good oil burner and is known to have crank issues.

What do you want?

- David.

I saw a video somewhere of a Ferguson 35 which someone had turned into a pulling tractor. Fitted a duramax which had been converted to mechanical fuel injection.

But anyway.

The Chev 6.2/6.5 are indirect injection, so there's a straight 20% fuel consumption penalty right there. The reputation they have in the US isn't good, I'd do a lot of research before going this route.

does anyone know how much extra weight there is in a duramax with an alison auto compared to a td42 with a manual box?

KiwiBacon wrote: I saw a video somewhere of a Ferguson 35 which someone had turned into a pulling tractor. Fitted a duramax which had been converted to mechanical fuel injection.

Found it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk-2ViFLwPY

enginefactory wrote:Based on the other poll about V8 engines for 4x4's, it seems like there is a fair bit of interest for the deisel V8's. Can somone shed some light on what engine they would pick and why?

Before you decide which way you're going to go... read what the yanks say and use their experience to your advantage hopefully.... good luck..

KiwiBacon wrote: The Chev 6.2/6.5 are indirect injection, so there's a straight 20% fuel consumption penalty right there. The reputation they have in the US isn't good, I'd do a lot of research before going this route.

That does need to be a strong point, if fuel consumption is high on the list the 6.2/6.5 isn't the best choice.

But most of the problems that get reported on these motors are broken cranks, which is largely in the Hummers because they get flogged and replacement with an aftermarket forged item should resolve it.

You also can not put much boost into them with the standard pistons, they don't like that. You need to drop back to a lower crown height if you want to hunt the low 20psi.

They are are used in trucks, buses and marine applications. They are reliable, but you need someone in the know if you want to speed them up.

There are heaps on info from US sites on both of these motors, Google is your friend.

- David.

Dirty wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote: The Chev 6.2/6.5 are indirect injection, so there's a straight 20% fuel consumption penalty right there. The reputation they have in the US isn't good, I'd do a lot of research before going this route.

That does need to be a strong point, if fuel consumption is high on the list the 6.2/6.5 isn't the best choice.

But most of the problems that get reported on these motors are broken cranks, which is largely in the Hummers because they get flogged and replacement with an aftermarket forged item should resolve it.

You also can not put much boost into them with the standard pistons, they don't like that. You need to drop back to a lower crown height if you want to hunt the low 20psi.

They are are used in trucks, buses and marine applications. They are reliable, but you need someone in the know if you want to speed them up.

There are heaps on info from US sites on both of these motors, Google is your friend.

- David.

Here's some light reading from some yanks who own and use them.
http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthrea ... t=chev+6.2

This was my favourite comment:

jdemaris wrote:It is my opinion, that any properly designed engine should die slowly and give warning - not run great up to the moment it blows.

Referenced from the above link :

"most of the n/a 4.2 diesel utes i see here give 18/20 L/100 k's. part of this is all the thrashing of them to get them to move. they wouldn't pull the skin off a rice custard. one place i worked had a 4.2 'cruiser ute, which used 100 litres of diesel to travel 500k's. this was empty, and a flat road. sitting on 100k's. in 2002, they bought a 7.3 turbo auto F250. this would pull 3 tonnes, and whaddya know used 100 L of diesel to do the same trip with a HIGHER average speed. and yes, the army flogs the 4BD1 rovers pretty hard, and they keep going. i haven't ever driven a brunswick converted car. which is part of the surprise when i looked at the website,and considered using one in my F100. thankfully i put down the crack pipe and bought a cummins"

All of the people i know with 1hz/td42's get a bucketload more k's than the above sworn by average haha.

I have to laugh at that briney guy from aus, "a 1hz using 100 litres to travel 500k's?" come on..... he's full of sh!t or there is something seriously wrong with the motor.

I wouldn't expect a 4.2 n/a diesel pulling 2.5t of truck to have bucket loads of power haha but im sure it could "pull the skin off a rice pudding" hahahaha Youd hope a motor that is 50% bigger would go better??

Why does everyone use a rare occurance, eg, blown motor at 50,000 k's, 100litres of fuel to travel 500k's as if every motor/thing behaves in this way.??? Maybe im a little "odd".

I own a gmc truck with the 6.5 v8 turbo diesel and its got alot of power and it chirps 2nd gear all day long and i have 22" rims, the d-max is a great motor but like someone said above it has alot of electrical to go with it!!
for fuel economy i get about 600-700k's out of 100l tank which is pretty good considering i drive it pretty hard and it weights just over 2.5 tonne.

but dont only look at the chev motors, i will eventually take my 6.5 out and put it in my 40 and ill be putting a cummins in my gmc, cummins and d max are about level with each other power wise but i think i would choose a cummins over the d max.
Mitch

Back on the Duramax's, anyone know what transfer cases they are available with?

Left or right side drop for front tailshaft?

left drop